Jacque Jones' OBP and SLG

[HoopsCubs]

More numbers on Jacque. It's not pretty. Intuitively, I knew it wouldn't be, but when I looked at the numbers, I became more peeved and dejected.

 

There are currently 66 OFs with a qualified number of plate appearances in the majors.

 

Jacque ranks 55th in OBP, and 58th in SLG. :cry: :cry:

 

The 11 guys below him in OBP are Mike Cameron, Juan Pierre, Craig Monroe, Coco Crisp, Jim Edmonds, Jermaine Dye, Corey Patterson, Chris Duffy, Joe Borchard, Delmon Young and Rocco Baldelli.

 

The 8 guys below him in SLG are JD Drew, Joe Borchard, Coco Crisp, Bobby Abreu, Chris Duffy, Corey Patterson, Juan Pierre and Jim Edmonds.

 

So, which team would benefit by acquiring Jacque? None? Maybe one? Maybe two?

 

Would it makes sense for the Cubs and Padres to exchange Cameron for Jones? The 34 year old Cameron is making $7M this season - he's a free agent after 2007; the 32 year old Jones is making $4M this season and $5M next season. If the Cubs contributed $2M next season, is it worth anything to the Padres to have Jones under contract in 2008 and spread their $7M investment over 2 years?

 

Would it make sense for the Cubs and Orioles to exchange Patterson for Jones? Patterson is making $4.3M this season - he's a free agent after 2007. If the Cubs contributed $2M next season, it it worth anything to the Orioles to have Jones under contract in 2008 and paying him $3M?

 

Would it make sense for the Cubs and Yankees to exchange Abreu for Jones? Abreu is making $15M this season and has a $2M buyout clause if his option is not picked up. If the Yankees picked up $4M on this year's remaining contract and the $2M buyout , is it worth it to the Yankees to have Jones under contract in 2008 for $5M and is it worth it to the Cubs to pay an extra $3M in 2007 for the slumping Abreu to be back in the NL, but then be out from under Jones' contract completely in 2008?

 

 

Just trying to find ways help Hendry out of the mess he created.

[Shilzzz]

dearest hoops,

 

if hendry had listened to you at any point during his tenure, he would not have created a mess like this for you to dig him out of.

 

sincerely,

justin

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If the Cubs were going to take on Patterson, the O's should be the ones kicking in $. He's terrible.

[ChiCubsFan]

Off topic, but sort of happy to see Drew struggling. I was one that wanted the Cubs to go after Drew, who would come cheaper than Soriano. I thought Drew would put up numbers at least equal to Soriano, and thought that injuries were the only real worry with Drew. All that said, Soriano still hasn't been as good as I expected.

 

Back on topic, trade Jones. Please.

[Amazing_Grace]

Well, at least we know Jones is better than Patterson and Pierre, two former Cubs CF. Small consolation but if we didn't look on the bright side, we wouldn't be Cubs fans.

[BigbadB]

Jacque Jones is from San Diego.

 

Unfortunately, as bad as Jacque has been of late, we'd probably have to throw in someone decent just to give him to the Padres.

[jjgman21]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

[Guest]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

I'm pretty sure no one's suggesting that they themselves replace Hendry.

[abuck1220]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

at least if the cubs had signed drew or giles instead of soriano they'd have some extra $ to blow...probably on a middle reliever coming off his first good season, but still...

[abuck1220]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

what's so impressive about where the cubs are now?

 

i don't understand why people want to give hendry credit for assembling a giant, expensive failure. do you really, honestly think it takes some special skill to field a $95 mil team that loses 90+ games? seriously, thousands upon thousands of people could have accomplished what hendry has accomplished over the past few seasons...and the cubs certainly wouldn't be any worse off than they are right now.

[seanimal]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

I'm pretty sure no one's suggesting that they themselves replace Hendry.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

/returns to resume draft

[Jehrico]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

There's a difference though. Most of those flops you mentioned had done very well before they got their current contract. Jones was horrible. It's a surprise that Drew and Abreu are doing as bad as they are. It's not a surprise that our $15mil Jones is doing bad. I'd rather have a GM who went after players where there was a basis of reason for expecting them to do good, not a basis to think they're going to suck. You're going to score more often going after Drew and Abreu types than with Jones types.

 

I'm still wishing we would have decided to open the pocket books a couple of years earlier and locked in Vlad or Beltran instead of Soriano.

[Tracer Bullet]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

I was never a big fan of Abreu, but I wanted Drew pretty bad. And Drew's power is nowhere to be found, but his OBP is still 100 points higher than his AVG (and that .350 OBP would be an improvement for our OF); Abreu's OBP is not good, but it's also 80 or so points higher than his AVG - these guys haven't lost their plate discipline, which is something our team sorely lacks.

 

But Abreu and Drew also went from the NL to the ALE, which is a huge difference in terms of talent. Abreu got the short end of the stick b/c some of the worst pitchers in the ALE are on his team. But they're facing much better talent than Jones is. So to think Drew or Abreu wouldn't be much better facing the Cards, Pirates, Reds, etc than pitchers in the AL isn't really fair. They might be just as bad on the Cubs as they are in the ALE, but the difference in talent in the leagues is fairly widely accepted, so I think that's a variable you're overlooking.

 

I'd love to trade for Drew (Abreu's a year and a half older, so I'm less interested in him). If he could play CF at all, that .391 career OBP would be a thing of beauty on this team.

[Backtobanks]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

As I have said over quite a few posts in the past, it's easy to sit back and critcize Hendry, but the GM's job is much harder than we want to admit. As you stated, people wanted Drew and/or Abreu and they're not doing much. The argument over Giles still amazes me that people don't realize that Giles was not going to leave San Diego. When people complain about the team being good on paper, that's all a GM can do because the players have to perform on the field. The power numbers for Lee and Soriano are totally unexpected, but I'm sure some critics would say that Hendry is to blame for not forseeing this. Hendry has made plenty of mistakes, but non-performance by players that are expected to perform can't be blamed on him.

[YearofDaCubs]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

As I have said over quite a few posts in the past, it's easy to sit back and critcize Hendry, but the GM's job is much harder than we want to admit. As you stated, people wanted Drew and/or Abreu and they're not doing much. The argument over Giles still amazes me that people don't realize that Giles was not going to leave San Diego. When people complain about the team being good on paper, that's all a GM can do because the players have to perform on the field. The power numbers for Lee and Soriano are totally unexpected, but I'm sure some critics would say that Hendry is to blame for not forseeing this. Hendry has made plenty of mistakes, but non-performance by players that are expected to perform can't be blamed on him.

No, I blame him. It's his type of player that he likes so much that is the problem at times. He doesn't look at all the numbers. He just looks at power and speed and then wonders why these guys K every time men are on base. He IS the problem. Any other GM could do MUCH better than Jimbo with this payroll. For his one good move there are 2-3 moves that leave you scratching your head. I'm also sure all GM's were laughing their ass off when they saw him sign Soriano to that RIDICULOUS contract. He's a terrible GM and should have been gone long ago. The fact that he is still here shows you how inept this organization still is.

[RynoRules]

I don't have a problem with blaming Hendry. Its a results-oriented buiz. That said, I don't think that collectively we understand how hard the professional sports GM position is.

[Soriano12]

good grief, the Hendry apolgists amaze me.... :twisted:

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't have a problem with blaming Hendry. Its a results-oriented buiz. That said, I don't think that collectively we understand how hard the professional sports GM position is.

 

A football GM job is difficult.

 

Baseball is not. Hendry chooses to make it difficult by handicapping himself with complete incompetence.

[RynoRules]

I don't have a problem with blaming Hendry. Its a results-oriented buiz. That said, I don't think that collectively we understand how hard the professional sports GM position is.

 

A football GM job is difficult.

 

Baseball is not. Hendry chooses to make it difficult by handicapping himself with complete incompetence.

 

How do you support this opinion beyond the basic conclusion?

[Tracer Bullet]

don't take this wrong. I want Hendry gone as bad as anyone. but let's face it, his harshest critics screamed for two of the players mentioned above (Drew and Abreu), and another who is just barely non-qualified, Brian Giles.

 

so when you go thinking Hendry's job is easy and he's just a massive baboon, look yourself in the mirror and admit many of the terrible transaction suggestions you've suggested over the years and where the Cubs would be had they made the moves often demanded here.

 

As I have said over quite a few posts in the past, it's easy to sit back and critcize Hendry, but the GM's job is much harder than we want to admit. As you stated, people wanted Drew and/or Abreu and they're not doing much. The argument over Giles still amazes me that people don't realize that Giles was not going to leave San Diego. When people complain about the team being good on paper, that's all a GM can do because the players have to perform on the field. The power numbers for Lee and Soriano are totally unexpected, but I'm sure some critics would say that Hendry is to blame for not forseeing this. Hendry has made plenty of mistakes, but non-performance by players that are expected to perform can't be blamed on him.

 

Wait, what? Lack of power from DLee was unforseeable? The guy missed most of last season with a wrist injury. I think a lack of power was a distinct possibility.

 

And Soriano isn't going to match the 46 HR he had in his career year (also, his walk year), but he could still hit 30-35 with 1 or 2 big months. But he's the leadoff hitter. Signing a 31-year-old with a .325 career OBP to an 8 year contract to be your leadoff hitter is just dumb. His OBP has come up dramatically in May and I hope it continues, but to expect a guy with a career .325 OBP to repeat his career year (and throw that much money at him on that hope) is not good team building.

 

What this team needed was a high-OBP lead off hitter and a good 3/4/5 hitter with power. What they got was a low-OBP lead off hitter who has had lots of power (not a real big help when the guys in front of him are Izturis and a P). And a 32-year-old formerly good 3/4/5 hitter that's had injury concerns and is in steep decline (a guys he's been chasing his whole career and signed not b/c he was the best fit for the ball club). Logic tells me that a guy with a history of injuries for most of his career is going to decline faster than a guy that's been healthy most of his career. I'm sure there are exceptions, but to expect a return to 2003 (or even '05) from Floyd was dumb on Hendry's part.

 

He just doesn't construct a good team. He had guys that have shown (in the minors or majors) to have real potential and be cheap alternatives (Theriot, Murton). But instead of using those guys, he blocks them with expensive and bad veterans (DeRosa and to some extent Izturis for Theriot and Floyd/Soriano/Jones for Murton). I realize the hope for Soriano was that he could handle CF, but he's a 2B with 1 year of OF experience (in LF) - it takes more than athletic ability to handle CF. So instead of using our cheap sources of good production (Theriot's MiLB OBP's the last 3 years have been .367, .365, .367 - sounds like a leadoff hitter to me; Murton's .365 career OBP would look nice right behind him), we go get a corner OF with a low OBP and block Murton and the leadoff spot. Then we add another corner OF on the downside of his career (that requires a platoon) for no reason. Then we add a 2B/super-sub coming off a career year and block Theriot (after we had already added a no-hit SS last year). Murton and Theriot are not superstars. But using guys like this allows you to use your $ for things you can't get from your system on the cheap (like a power hitter, a better SS or 2B, and a CF).

 

The GM position is not easy and there are more failures than successes. But I, and others, won't accept that as an excuse for a guy that's had a long time and, especially recently, a lot of money, to put together a good team but may have done more harm than good.

[RynoRules]

good grief, the Hendry apolgists amaze me.... :twisted:

 

I am hardly a Hendry apologist.

[Pushfrog98]

I would be happy if we traded Jones for a wade boggs card and a bowl of rice pilaf.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't have a problem with blaming Hendry. Its a results-oriented buiz. That said, I don't think that collectively we understand how hard the professional sports GM position is.

 

A football GM job is difficult.

 

Baseball is not. Hendry chooses to make it difficult by handicapping himself with complete incompetence.

 

How do you support this opinion beyond the basic conclusion?

 

Baseball is a very simple sport. It's very easy to tell who is going to contribute what to a team. Football is complicated, and there is something to getting the right pieces to work together. There's very little in the way of objective analysis in football, at least compared to baseball, where track records tell you a hell of a lot of what guys are going to do in the future.

 

Add in the fact that football has a salary cap while baseball does not, and Hendry has been given a top payroll every year, and the difference is even larger. Hendry targets people that everybody knows are the wrong guys. Hendry has a 1960 mentality while being lapped by GM's who know it's 2007.

 

His failings have been completely predictable. His job has been simple and he sabotaged it.

 

A baseball GM who has to operate at a lower payroll has a more difficult job, but a high payroll baseball GM has tremendous advantages over just about any other sports GM out there.

 

There is no excuse for a top 5 type payroll baseball team to fail to win 90+ games every year.

 

The hardest part about the job of baseball GM is climbing the old boys club ladder and getting the job. The job itself is not particularly hard, for a high pressure management type business.

Edited May 24, 2007 by jersey cubs fan

[Soriano12]

good grief, the Hendry apolgists amaze me.... :twisted:

 

I am hardly a Hendry apologist.

 

I know that, I was just refering to previous posts in this thread.

 

 

The bottom line is that the Cubs have not been performing. This is Hendry's fault. He is the GM. He should be removed.

[Soriano12]

I don't have a problem with blaming Hendry. Its a results-oriented buiz. That said, I don't think that collectively we understand how hard the professional sports GM position is.

 

A football GM job is difficult.

 

Baseball is not. Hendry chooses to make it difficult by handicapping himself with complete incompetence.

 

How do you support this opinion beyond the basic conclusion?

 

Baseball is a very simple sport. It's very easy to tell who is going to contribute what to a team. Football is complicated, and there is something to getting the right pieces to work together. There's very little in the way of objective analysis in football, at least compared to baseball, where track records tell you a hell of a lot of what guys are going to do in the future.

 

Add in the fact that football has a salary cap while baseball does not, and Hendry has been given a top payroll every year, and the difference is even larger. Hendry targets people that everybody knows are the wrong guys. Hendry has a 1960 mentality while being lapped by GM's who know it's 2007.

 

His failings have been completely predictable. His job has been simple and he sabotaged it.

 

A baseball GM who has to operate at a lower payroll has a more difficult job, but a high payroll baseball GM has tremendous advantages over just about any other sports GM out there.

 

There is no excuse for a top 5 type payroll baseball team to fail to win 90+ games every year.

 

The hardest part about the job of baseball GM is climbing the old boys club ladder and getting the job. The job itself is not particularly hard, for a high pressure management type business.

 

I'm pretty sure that if baseball was stuctured with a salary cap like the NFL, Hendry would assemble the worst team in modern professional sports.