Murton on the block?!

[jersey cubs fan]

They were planning on using him in rightfield all along until the CF experiment. I don't see why they couldn't move him there today and stick him there.

[NewUserName]

Honestly, I think both Murton and Jones will stay. Floyd is the one who truly has no place on this team any more and will be dumped as soon as it's possible.

 

They just signed Floyd, there's no way they dump him as soon as possible. He was a longtime Hendry target, and Hendry has him. Jim doesn't dump his recent acquirees.

 

We'll see. When they got Floyd LF was open; now it's not.

 

Actually it wasnt. Not to anyone with any sense. The more I think about this the more I think not only should Hendry be fired but the person who allowed him the large off-season purse should also be fired. I predicted several times last year that the Cubs would make several big free agent splashes last off season. They do this because A lot of Cub fans think how much better the team will be with Alfonso Soriano because they see 40/40. Or how much better the team is with Cliff Floyd because they had heard of his name. They dont stop to think that both players play a position that is handled by a young and coming player. Hendry just signs them because his job is on the line and has to do something drastic.

 

Truth be told the Cubs would be everybit as good this year with an outfield of Murton, Pie and Jones and Joe Girardi managing. They would have been even better if a platoon partner for Jones was found. Problem being there isnt enough "name recognition" in it. The Cubs love name recognition. Also this isnt a safe bet. The Cubs are masters of the safe bet. This is why they dont develop young talent. They always bring in a veteran "insurance" policy. Sadly they also hire managers who dont want veterans being disgruntled on the bench or think veterans have a better chance of winning. So there goes player development.

 

Truth is almost any team with any kind of track record of success would have just let Murton play left. Murton would probably have been as good of a player as Soriano in a couple of years for a lot less money. Picking up Floyd after we already got Ward was just a complete waste of time and money.

 

Anyway they should just trade Murton. He isnt really a rightfielder and neither is Soriano. I am sure Oakland would give us a piece of trash middle reliever with a "name" for him.

[wilk]

What is a fact? The ball comes off the bat different? That's not in dispute.

 

Soriano is supposed to be this uber athletic stud. He's played one full season in LF, the rest of the time he's been an infielder. He made the jump from 2nd to LF ok, kind of. He should be able to adjust to RF. Sammy Sossa held down the postion pretty well as did Jeromi Burnitz and many other medocire fielders.

 

BTW> In RF the ball will be slicing to him off of a RH batter, not away from him.

 

The facts are everything I stated as facts. What then is "complete and utter nonsense"? Did I say he's unable to ever adjust to right? In fact, I said he may be able to adjust and that is where I would prefer him to be! Since everyone is sarcastically stating it's just because Lou is an idiot and prone to things that don't make sense - I decided to give the real reasons that make sense. That is why Soriano has not been in right yet. That is why the first tried him in center where they thought he'd have the least trouble with his reads... Rightfield at Wrigley is the most difficult outfield position and Soriano is not a good defender. He has speed and an arm to make up for a lot of his flaws but he has very poor anticipation and that's a problem in rightfield more so than in left. There's no question he'd have more value to the team if he can play right... and maybe with enough ""fungo practice"" he'll be able to but right now THAT is why he would be worse in right...

[davearm]

BTW> In RF the ball will be slicing to him off of a RH batter, not away from him.

Huh?

 

The ball slices from CF toward the foul line in both LF and RF, and with both LH and RH hitters. (I suppose technically when the ball's pulled into the corner, it's more of a hook than a slice, at least in golf parlance, but regardless the sidespin, and thus the ballflight, is toward the foul line.)

 

Thus, regardless of the handedness of the batter and the fielder, a ball that starts out in the gap will tend to slice toward the corner OF and away from the CF, and a ball that starts out straight at a corner OF will tend to slice away from that corner OF, and toward the foul line.

 

RF and LF are essentially no different in that respect.

[JeffH]

Just trade Murton for the rights to Felix Heredia and be done with it.

 

It's the decent thing to do.

[wilk]

RF and LF are essentially no different in that respect.

 

Besides that there are many more RHB than LHB, of course, meaning you deal with it a lot more in right than in left.

[jersey cubs fan]

I decided to give the real reasons that make sense. That is why Soriano has not been in right yet. That is why the first tried him in center where they thought he'd have the least trouble with his reads... Rightfield at Wrigley is the most difficult outfield position and Soriano is not a good defender.

 

The original plan for Soriano was RF all along. They didn't switch him to CF until he volunteered to play there once CF became a big question. They didn't start him there to protect him from the difficult of RF.

 

Had they stuck with Murton/Floyd, Jones and Soriano from left to right at the outset, this mess would not be as big a problem.

[davearm]

RF and LF are essentially no different in that respect.

 

Besides that there are many more RHB than LHB, of course, meaning you deal with it a lot more in right than in left.

Not sure what you mean here.

 

Regardless of whether you're standing in LF or RF, and regardless of whether the batter is a lefty or a righty, a ball that starts out straight at you will tend to slice toward the foul line.

 

Although I wouldn't bet the farm on it, intuitively it seems as though a ball that's pulled (and thus hooking) would move toward the line about the same amount as a ball that's hit to the opposite field (and thus slicing). The basic physics involved should be very similar in either case.

 

Only if that's an incorrect assumption, and hooking action is inherently different than slicing action, does the RF face a different set challenges than the LF (due to the discrepancy in RHB versus LHB).

 

The main difference between RF and LF, and the one constant, is in the throws involved. At Wrigley, there are also sun and wind issues that differentiate LF from RF. Of course in many other parks (like Fenway), there are also significantly different dimensions to deal with.

[wilk]

The original plan for Soriano was RF all along. They didn't switch him to CF until he volunteered to play there once CF became a big question. They didn't start him there to protect him from the difficult of RF.

 

Had they stuck with Murton/Floyd, Jones and Soriano from left to right at the outset, this mess would not be as big a problem.

 

That's not entirely true. That might have been your perception of how the events unfolded but none of it ever officially sat as that. They knew he'd be in the outfield and that they could put him in any of the three spots and that was enough. Of course right was discussed too--it would put his arm to best use and it's a better position to anchor. He'd need to make an adjustment anyway and his move to left was somewhat successful so in no way was right out of the question but it was always known right would be the most difficult of the three. That's all I continue to say. If right was the plan "all along" then why has he not played any right? Why when they moved him out of what you call Plan B (CF) did they not go back to Plan A (RF)? I truly don't understand how anyone could so vehemently disagree with these basic points. I never ruled out Soriano playing right and a few times now I've said it's where I'd wish him to be... but these are real reasons with real logic to it.

[jersey cubs fan]

The original plan for Soriano was RF all along. They didn't switch him to CF until he volunteered to play there once CF became a big question. They didn't start him there to protect him from the difficult of RF.

 

Had they stuck with Murton/Floyd, Jones and Soriano from left to right at the outset, this mess would not be as big a problem.

 

That's not entirely true. That might have been your perception of how the events unfolded but none of it ever officially sat as that. They knew he'd be in the outfield and that they could put him in any of the three spots and that was enough. Of course right was discussed too--it would put his arm to best use and it's a better position to anchor. He'd need to make an adjustment anyway and his move to left was somewhat successful so in no way was right out of the question but it was always known right would be the most difficult of the three. That's all I continue to say. If right was the plan "all along" then why has he not played any right? Why when they moved him out of what you call Plan B (CF) did they not go back to Plan A (RF)? I truly don't understand how anyone could so vehemently disagree with these basic points. I never ruled out Soriano playing right and a few times now I've said it's where I'd wish him to be... but these are real reasons with real logic to it.

 

Because Lou is trying to make Soriano as comfortable as possible, and with the gimpy hammy, they just decided to change course and have him go to the one position where he was most comfortable. Plus, at the time, Pie was the

[wilk]

dave, this discussion rooted because I brought up these exact slice and sun issues. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. My point was that the opposite field slice you get off a right-handed bat to rightfield or a left-handed bat to leftfield those balls that are tailing Soriano has the most trouble with. He's said this himself though I'm sure me stating that is going to result in me having to find the quote... Being that there are many more right-handed batters than left-handed batters, this is an issue more often in rightfield.

[frostwyrm]

They were planning on using him in rightfield all along until the CF experiment. I don't see why they couldn't move him there today and stick him there.

 

There's no logical reason unless you believe a player's defensive position affects his offense. I think it could in some cases but I have a tough time believing that moving from one corner OF spot to the other would do it.

[seanimal]

They were planning on using him in rightfield all along until the CF experiment. I don't see why they couldn't move him there today and stick him there.

 

There's no logical reason unless you believe a player's defensive position affects his offense. I think it could in some cases but I have a tough time believing that moving from one corner OF spot to the other would do it.

 

Yeah but, right field is where the dandelions grow.

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

Yeah but, right field is where the dandelions grow.

 

Mmmmmmmm...... dandelion wine !!!

[CubinNY]

dave, this discussion rooted because I brought up these exact slice and sun issues. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. My point was that the opposite field slice you get off a right-handed bat to rightfield or a left-handed bat to leftfield those balls that are tailing Soriano has the most trouble with. He's said this himself though I'm sure me stating that is going to result in me having to find the quote... Being that there are many more right-handed batters than left-handed batters, this is an issue more often in rightfield.

 

First, most hitters pull the ball. Second, the ball will slice towards his glove hand (LH for soriano) off of a right handed hitter. If the ball is pulled from a left handed hitter same thing. In left field just the opposite is the case. Either way the difference in positions is negligible to the point of absurdity.

Edited May 30, 2007 by CubinNY

[bhogg]

The best thing for Matt Murton is to get as far away from this god forsaken ballclub and get away as fast as he can.

[seanimal]

Matt Murton for HOF

[sunnydoo]

Matt Murton for HOF

 

His baserunning is HOF stuff, i just cant tell you what those letters stand for on a family friendly board.

 

So sick of seeing him get thrown out and doing stupid stuff on the basepaths (him and Jones for that matter). I thought for sure he was gone when the catcher threw behind him at first in the 6th or 7th after his horrifically stupid play in the 5th. Definitely graduated the Moises Alou academy of baserunning.

 

You can have a perfect OBP but it doesnt account for bumpkin if you act like a pumpkin (head) on base.

Edited May 24, 2007 by sunnydoo

[seanimal]

Matt Murton for HOF

 

His baserunning is HOF stuff, i just cant tell you what those letters stand for on a family friendly board.

 

So sick of seeing him get thrown out and doing stupid stuff on the basepaths (him and Jones for that matter). I thought for sure he was gone when the catcher thru behind him at first in the 6th or 7th after his horrifically stupid play in the 5th. Definitely graduated the Moises Alou academy of baserunning.

 

You can have a perfect OBP but it doesnt account for bumpkin if you act like a pumpkin (head) on base.

 

But he's AGGRESSIVE and has a DIRTY UNIFORM!

[jersey cubs fan]

His baserunning gaffes are really annoying. He's not doing anything guys like Alou, Soriano and Jones have done over and over, but it's still inexcusable.

 

Going into that atbat I was hoping for a sac bunt by Izturis and strike out by Marshall to give Soriano a shot at 2nd/3rd with 2 outs. I assumed a double play would end the threat at some point, but I didn't think that would be how it happened.

[Exile on Waveland]

Soriano in right, Jones in center and Murton/Floyd in left is just so completely obvious that I thought even the Cubs would figure it out. Oh well. Here's hoping they do at some point in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

I do believe defense/position/etc can have at least a minimal affect on a player's hitting. Player's aren't robots. However, a move from left to right is so inconsequential I am quite dubious it would affect much.

 

I don't understand why the Cubs are consistently such a poor baserunning team. The players change, the gaffes don't.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soriano in right, Jones in center and Murton/Floyd in left is just so completely obvious that I thought even the Cubs would figure it out. Oh well. Here's hoping they do at some point in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

I do believe defense/position/etc can have at least a minimal affect on a player's hitting. Player's aren't robots. However, a move from left to right is so inconsequential I am quite dubious it would affect much.

 

I don't understand why the Cubs are consistently such a poor baserunning team. The players change, the gaffes don't.

 

I believe it centers around the organization "be aggressive" philosophy. The Cubs stress agressiveness over intelligence. The intelligent thing to do is accept a walk when the pitcher isn't giving you hittable strikes. The Cubs tell their guys that "it's called hitting". That wasn't just a Dusty thing, Hendry has stressed it since he was the minor league coordinator. The Cubs want to "be aggressive", "make things happen" and "put pressure on the defense." To me that pretty much equates to making pitchers' jobs easier and running into outs.

[davearm]

dave, this discussion rooted because I brought up these exact slice and sun issues. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. My point was that the opposite field slice you get off a right-handed bat to rightfield or a left-handed bat to leftfield those balls that are tailing Soriano has the most trouble with. He's said this himself though I'm sure me stating that is going to result in me having to find the quote... Being that there are many more right-handed batters than left-handed batters, this is an issue more often in rightfield.

But here's the issue:

 

Is the slice you get off a right-handed bat to rightfield inherently different than the hook you get off a left-handed bat to rightfield?

 

Seems to me that in each instance the bat will impart clockwise sidespin on the ball, causing it to tail toward the foulline.

 

By the same token, both LH and RH hitters impart counterclockwise sidespin on balls they hit to LF.

 

If I'm right about all of this, then there's no differentiating LF from RF on the basis of ball trajectory issues.

 

Conversely, if hooking (pulled) balls behave differently (less tailing action, to be specific) than slicing (opposite field) balls, then your theory's got legs.

[noisesquared]

dave, this discussion rooted because I brought up these exact slice and sun issues. I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. My point was that the opposite field slice you get off a right-handed bat to rightfield or a left-handed bat to leftfield those balls that are tailing Soriano has the most trouble with. He's said this himself though I'm sure me stating that is going to result in me having to find the quote... Being that there are many more right-handed batters than left-handed batters, this is an issue more often in rightfield.

But here's the issue:

 

Is the slice you get off a right-handed bat to rightfield inherently different than the hook you get off a left-handed bat to rightfield?

 

Seems to me that in each instance the bat will impart clockwise sidespin on the ball, causing it to tail toward the foulline.

 

By the same token, both LH and RH hitters impart counterclockwise sidespin on balls they hit to LF.

 

If I'm right about all of this, then there's no differentiating LF from RF on the basis of ball trajectory issues.

 

Conversely, if hooking (pulled) balls behave differently (less tailing action, to be specific) than slicing (opposite field) balls, then your theory's got legs.

 

Just a general observation, but I think everytime a LH batter hits a ball the spin will be counter clockwise, and RH batters will always generate a clockwise spin. A pulled, hard hit would generate less spin, but not a reverse spin. I could be wrong, but I can't picture a situation where a RH batter hits a ball that generates counterclockwise spin.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

having played all outfield positions for the majority of my playing days, I always thought RF was the toughest to play because the hook/slice always seemed much different than it did when I was in LF. maybe it was nothing more than a lack of experience, but the trajectory definitely seemed different to me.