Soriano,so far...

[gflore34]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

 

True. His routes are terrible. I still can't get over the 8 RBI's...Unreal! Who would've thought that Sammy Sosa would be more productive at this point in the season. Oh man...

 

I'm not surprised, typical Cub, if something bad can happen, it will, if a player who has put big numbers is going to struggle, he will.

[C.C.]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

 

True. His routes are terrible. I still can't get over the 8 RBI's...Unreal! Who would've thought that Sammy Sosa would be more productive at this point in the season. Oh man...

 

I'm not surprised, typical Cub, if something bad can happen, it will, if a player who has put big numbers is going to struggle, he will.

 

Not really. Barrett, Lee, and Aram where all better then expected...

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not surprised, typical Cub, if something bad can happen, it will, if a player who has put big numbers is going to struggle, he will.

 

Not really. Barrett, Lee, and Aram where all better then expected...

 

Not to mention, Soriano is pretty much hitting in-line with his career averages.

[Abe Frohman]

I have to be honest - I don't like the idea of hitting Soriano 2 in the order with Theriot leading off. I think the lineup would be much stronger if it were Soriano 1 and Theriot 2.

 

Or this:

 

SS Theriot

CF Pagan

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Soriano

RF Floyd or Murton

CA Barrett

2B DeRosa

 

I would absolutely keep Jones out of the OF. How a man can play ML baseball and throw the way he does from the OF is a mystery to me. And Soriano needs to learn how to catch the ball with 2 hands and stop jumping up right before catching the ball, or it is going to cost the Cubs a stupid out one day soon.

[C.C.]

I agree Sori shouldn've be hitting 1st or 2nd. I like him batting number 5. With his sore hammy his speed is not even being used.

[CubColtPacer]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

 

True. His routes are terrible. I still can't get over the 8 RBI's...Unreal! Who would've thought that Sammy Sosa would be more productive at this point in the season. Oh man...

 

I'm not surprised, typical Cub, if something bad can happen, it will, if a player who has put big numbers is going to struggle, he will.

 

Not really. Barrett, Lee, and Aram where all better then expected...

 

Some of those weren't good at the beginning of the season though.

 

The big time position players that the Cubs acquire during offseasons have had a habit of struggling early in the season in their first year with the team. If you look back at the past 6 offseasons, the 6 newcomers who I think had the most expectations placed on them were this: 1) Soriano, 2) Alou, 3)Lee, 4)Pierre, 5) Burnitz, 6) Jones. Only Burnitz had a good start to the season, and even he had an awful May. Everybody else had to overcome their horrible starts with the club to try to salvage a good year. I'll wait to see if Soriano can do the same.

[jersey cubs fan]

Some of those weren't good at the beginning of the season though.

 

The big time position players that the Cubs acquire during offseasons have had a habit of struggling early in the season in their first year with the team. If you look back at the past 6 offseasons, the 6 newcomers who I think had the most expectations placed on them were this: 1) Soriano, 2) Alou, 3)Lee, 4)Pierre, 5) Burnitz, 6) Jones. Only Burnitz had a good start to the season, and even he had an awful May. Everybody else had to overcome their horrible starts with the club to try to salvage a good year. I'll wait to see if Soriano can do the same.

 

Who had expectations for Burnitz? Only people who weren't paying attention had expectations for Pierre.

 

Alou didn't salvage a good year. Lee had a nice June and July, but faded down the stretch and had a disappointing year.

 

Jones appears to be the only guy on your list who overcame a bad start to finish the season with numbers that beat expectations, and by the time late May came around he was already hitting pretty much where he ended up.

[C.C.]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

 

True. His routes are terrible. I still can't get over the 8 RBI's...Unreal! Who would've thought that Sammy Sosa would be more productive at this point in the season. Oh man...

 

I'm not surprised, typical Cub, if something bad can happen, it will, if a player who has put big numbers is going to struggle, he will.

 

Not really. Barrett, Lee, and Aram where all better then expected...

 

Some of those weren't good at the beginning of the season though.

 

The big time position players that the Cubs acquire during offseasons have had a habit of struggling early in the season in their first year with the team. If you look back at the past 6 offseasons, the 6 newcomers who I think had the most expectations placed on them were this: 1) Soriano, 2) Alou, 3)Lee, 4)Pierre, 5) Burnitz, 6) Jones. Only Burnitz had a good start to the season, and even he had an awful May. Everybody else had to overcome their horrible starts with the club to try to salvage a good year. I'll wait to see if Soriano can do the same.

 

I meant since we first aquired them. Not just this year...

[seanimal]

Why not wait until 2014?

 

:-k

 

Umm. Small sample size is in play right now. Over the course of 600+ at-bats we'll be able to better judge Soriano's value to the team.

 

Soriano is already past his prime and he doesn't have a great history of production to give anybody confidence that he will turn things around.

 

He's 31, which is still a 'prime' year. A career 115 OPS+ seems like a decent history of production that gives me confidence that he'll turn things around.

 

There's really no time to be patient with the guy Hendry decided would be his savior. He's been a huge disappointment, but the Cubs are giving him all the leeway in the world, because of the money.

 

I'm not even sure these statements make any sense. In fact, I'm pretty sure they don't.

[seanimal]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

 

True. His routes are terrible. I still can't get over the 8 RBI's...Unreal! Who would've thought that Sammy Sosa would be more productive at this point in the season. Oh man...

 

I'm not surprised, typical Cub, if something bad can happen, it will, if a player who has put big numbers is going to struggle, he will.

 

Not really. Barrett, Lee, and Aram where all better then expected...

 

Some of those weren't good at the beginning of the season though.

 

The big time position players that the Cubs acquire during offseasons have had a habit of struggling early in the season in their first year with the team. If you look back at the past 6 offseasons, the 6 newcomers who I think had the most expectations placed on them were this: 1) Soriano, 2) Alou, 3)Lee, 4)Pierre, 5) Burnitz, 6) Jones. Only Burnitz had a good start to the season, and even he had an awful May. Everybody else had to overcome their horrible starts with the club to try to salvage a good year. I'll wait to see if Soriano can do the same.

 

I meant since we first aquired them. Not just this year...

 

I think that's what he meant too, if I read it correctly.

[seanimal]

A career 115 OPS+ seems like a decent history of production that gives me confidence that he'll turn things around.

 

Well, that's only 5 points off of where he's at right now, looking more thoroughly at the numbers, but his SLG is way down, and I don't expect that to continue, more specifically.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why not wait until 2014?

 

:-k

 

Umm. Small sample size is in play right now. Over the course of 600+ at-bats we'll be able to better judge Soriano's value to the team.

 

Soriano is already past his prime and he doesn't have a great history of production to give anybody confidence that he will turn things around.

 

He's 31, which is still a 'prime' year. A career 115 OPS+ seems like a decent history of production that gives me confidence that he'll turn things around.

 

There's really no time to be patient with the guy Hendry decided would be his savior. He's been a huge disappointment, but the Cubs are giving him all the leeway in the world, because of the money.

 

I'm not even sure these statements make any sense. In fact, I'm pretty sure they don't.

 

Ahh yes, the much overused "small sample size" argument. He's well over 150 PA, there's plenty of evidence to judge his value to the team.

 

31 is not a prime year. 26-29 are the prime years, 25-30 if you want to stretch it. And you said it yourself, decent, but nowhere near worthy of the money he's getting. He's putting up "decent" numbers right now, they are right in line with his career.

 

If they don't make sense to you then you don't understand what's going on with Soriano.

 

It's pretty much a guarantee Soriano will be a huge drag on the Cubs toward the end of his contract. They need him to be great, right now, in order to get anywhere close to the value they are paying him for. It's pretty silly to wait until October 1 to decide whether or not Soriano has been valuable. We're 26% of the way through the season. It's not too early to judge. He's made mistake after mistake that a younger or less well paid player would have suffered the consequences for. But Lou is bending over backward to satisfy him because of the money. That's fine with me, if we're talking about an uber-productive true star. But Soriano is no star, he's merely a good talented player with tremendous flaws. Without him matching career highs, we aren't getting what we need from him. And it's only going to get worse with time.

[frostwyrm]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

He needs the Pittsburgh Pirates to stay out of the trash bin. 24 of his 72 total bases are vs. Pirates pitching. That's one third of his production.

[weis21]

lets just cut him.

[Chocolate Milk]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

He needs the Pittsburgh Pirates to stay out of the trash bin. 24 of his 72 total bases are vs. Pirates pitching. That's one third of his production.

 

This is pretty silly. What are you trying to say here? Soriano can only hit against the Pirates? He's played 17% of his games this year against the Pirates and he played well in those games. It's not surprising that his stats are a little skewed. This doesn't really shed light on anything.

[Backtobanks]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

It all depends on what you call a "top" hitter. You get past Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, and a few others and the most of therest of them are really streaky. We are in an era of guys who hit 40 HRs and strike out 180 times and are considered "top" hitters.

[frostwyrm]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

He needs the Pittsburgh Pirates to stay out of the trash bin. 24 of his 72 total bases are vs. Pirates pitching. That's one third of his production.

 

This is pretty silly. What are you trying to say here? Soriano can only hit against the Pirates? He's played 17% of his games this year against the Pirates and he played well in those games. It's not surprising that his stats are a little skewed. This doesn't really shed light on anything.

 

Soriano may hit against non-Pirates in the future, but the thread asked how he has done so far. He had a nice hot streak vs. the Pirates. That's about all he has contributed so far.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

It all depends on what you call a "top" hitter. You get past Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, and a few others and the most of therest of them are really streaky. We are in an era of guys who hit 40 HRs and strike out 180 times and are considered "top" hitters.

 

What's the point of bringing up strike outs? It's irrelevant. Top hitters put together resumes much better than the one Soriano has. ARod is missing from your list. As is Jeter, who is about as consistently great at his position, as it gets. Lance Berkman is a consistently great hitter. There are more.

 

The problem with Soriano's "slow start" is that it's not the least bit abnormal, and is actually right in-line with his career numbers.

[frostwyrm]

Why not wait until 2014?

 

:-k

 

Umm. Small sample size is in play right now. Over the course of 600+ at-bats we'll be able to better judge Soriano's value to the team.

 

 

Not buying the small sample argument. He put up an .808 and .821 OPS in the 2 years before 2006, and that was in a good hitter's park. Add all of 2004-2006 together, plus the quarter season he's played in 2007, and you have a big enough sample. Or you could just look at his career numbers. 2006 looks like a major outlier. Unfortunately Hendry gave him a contract based almost entirely on his 2006 numbers. Big mistake.

[seanimal]

Ahh yes, the much overused "small sample size" argument. He's well over 150 PA, there's plenty of evidence to judge his value to the team.

 

No, no it's not. That is simply false. If, and only if, his numbers stay static or fall by October then I'll gladly tell you you're right, but denying something such as 'small sample size' just because people say it often rather than providing some sort of logical reasoning other than 'it's 25% of his year' as to why it's irrelevent is beyond me. 150 AB's is enough to have an idea where a player is going and where he has been so far, but it certainly is not enough evidence to say where he's going to end up.

 

If they don't make sense to you then you don't understand what's going on with Soriano.

 

I guess not.

 

They need him to be great, right now, in order to get anywhere close to the value they are paying him for.

 

They bid on an upgrade. It cost a lot. They don't need him to be great, they need him to perform at his career average, which he isn't doing yet. How much money they pay for him is wholly irrelevent when you're speaking of one the largest profit margins in professional sports. They paid for the right to obtain him, not to fulfill your bloated expectations of what certain amounts of dollars should exact.

 

It's pretty silly to wait until October 1 to decide whether or not Soriano has been valuable.

 

Prudent. Silly. Tomato. Tomahto.

 

That's fine with me, if we're talking about an uber-productive true star. But Soriano is no star, he's merely a good talented player with tremendous flaws. Without him matching career highs, we aren't getting what we need from him.

 

Cool, lets ignore that he's our most productive outfielder offensively, save 'small sample size' Angel Pagan.

 

And it's only going to get worse with time.

 

But it would be 'silly' to wait and see.

[Chocolate Milk]

How much impact has his hamstring injury had on his hitting, if any? I'm not sure, to be honest. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a little while longer because of it. I could understand if someone didn't want to, though.

 

He has been getting better after an otherwise disasterous April where he went 270/308/392/700. He's been 304/360/544/905 in May which is much better. Hopefully he can continue the trend into June.

[abuck1220]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

It all depends on what you call a "top" hitter. You get past Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, and a few others and the most of therest of them are really streaky. We are in an era of guys who hit 40 HRs and strike out 180 times and are considered "top" hitters.

 

and soriano's probably not going to hit 40 homers.

[Chocolate Milk]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

It all depends on what you call a "top" hitter. You get past Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, and a few others and the most of therest of them are really streaky. We are in an era of guys who hit 40 HRs and strike out 180 times and are considered "top" hitters.

 

and soriano's probably not going to hit 40 homers.

 

Yeah, I think not hitting a single homer in April pretty much tanked any chance at 40 homers.

[frostwyrm]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

 

It all depends on what you call a "top" hitter. You get past Bonds, Pujols, Cabrera, and a few others and the most of therest of them are really streaky. We are in an era of guys who hit 40 HRs and strike out 180 times and are considered "top" hitters.

 

and soriano's probably not going to hit 40 homers.

 

Yeah, I think not hitting a single homer in April pretty much tanked any chance at 40 homers.

 

He's also sitting at 9 walks, so his chance at equaling last year's 67 walks is gone too.

[jersey cubs fan]

They bid on an upgrade. It cost a lot. They don't need him to be great, they need him to perform at his career average, which he isn't doing yet.

 

Are you kidding me? This is absurd. He's right in-line with his career average. They need him to be as good as he was in his career year.