let the whining about playing time begin...

[UK1679666180]

What's wrong with 4 OF'ers? They finally have some flexibility and a better bat off the bench than previous years.

 

I could understand doing so to make room for Pie, but doing so w/out calling up Pie doesn't accomplish anything.

 

If you trade one of them now, Pagan assumes a larger role. Ideally, Pagan should be a 5th OF'er/late defensive CF'er replacement since he's the best defensive CF'er on the roster (he prob. only equates to an avg. defensive Cf'er).

[CubColtPacer]

For all the talk about Lou being better than Dusty, he has done an abysmal job putting out the most productive lineups. He has played around with the position players to much, not getting any kind of consistency. He has used Izturis and Jones too much. Murton not enough. The whole Pie fiasco. He has also done a pretty bad job managing the bullpen.

I agree. It's the same old, which is what many expected when he got hired only to be fooled by his bs lies during spring training.

 

why wouldn't he start Floyd, or even Ward at 1B? on what planet would it ever make sense to bat Izturis 2nd?

 

i really can't wait to see Floyd get run out into RF for a week straight so Lou can show him some "respect" now that he's complaining. good times.

 

Floyd and Ward are both terrible against left-handed pitching-I might have started Floyd just because of his numbers against Glavine, but I can understand why Lou put DeRosa in instead (DeRosa hits left-handers hard along with Theriot, and Theriot and Izturis have both been hot).

 

As far as Izturis being 2nd, did you see the lineup yesterday? I would rather have seen Izturis bat 2nd than 6th, which is where he would have fit in otherwise with that lineup. Plus, he's batting .394/.444/.485 so far in May. If Lou puts him there constantly, that will most likely be a horrible thing, but the combination of Lee being hurt/Barrett resting/Izturis being hot/facing a left-hander made him a good option for the 2 spot last night.

[jersey cubs fan]

What's wrong with 4 OF'ers? They finally have some flexibility and a better bat off the bench than previous years.

 

I could understand doing so to make room for Pie, but doing so w/out calling up Pie doesn't accomplish anything.

 

If you trade one of them now, Pagan assumes a larger role. Ideally, Pagan should be a 5th OF'er/late defensive CF'er replacement since he's the best defensive CF'er on the roster (he prob. only equates to an avg. defensive Cf'er).

 

4 OF would be fine if they had one ideal OF in a natural position. Unfortunately they don't have a real everyday CF. If the Cubs had a legit CF playing everyday (hello Carlos Beltran), then the idea situation for the corner spots would be Floyd, Jones and Murton splitting time. But Soriano has to play everyday, and they need to platoon in CF, then worry about the RF platoon. So it's more like 5 OF, not 4.

[UK1679666180]

Agreed, they have too many round pegs for square holes as well as Lou's managerial style so far as reasons why it would be unwise to trade an extra OF'er at this stage.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

We're trading the youngest with potential to be the best of the 3 going forward (if he's not already) b/c we have so much offense, especially OBP, that we can afford to get rid of a good young OBP machine?

 

Matt Murton's career OBP = .368

 

That is not an "OBP machine" under even the most liberal definition of that term.

 

not too shabby for someone with only 1 full year of MLB under their belt

[Warren Brusstar]

We're trading the youngest with potential to be the best of the 3 going forward (if he's not already) b/c we have so much offense, especially OBP, that we can afford to get rid of a good young OBP machine?

 

Matt Murton's career OBP = .368

 

That is not an "OBP machine" under even the most liberal definition of that term.

 

Even assuming Murton's numbers don't go up in the next 3 years as history would indicate (he's entering his peak years now), his .365 OBP last year was top 25 in the NL. Of NL outfielders, it's top 10. For ML outfielders he's tied for 16th. I don't know how good someone has to be to be considered a "machine" but I think being 16 out of 90 in your first full season (when you're 25) is pretty darn good. If we want to quibble over whether that makes him a machine or not, fine. Either way, his OBP isn't something we should be looking to ship out of town to make Cliff friggin Floyd happy.

 

Apparently, the list of OBP "machines" last year included:

 

Nomar

Omar Vizquel

Rafael Furcal

Jamey Carroll

Ichiro

Gary Mathews, Jr.

Robinson Cano

Mark DeRosa

 

Look, I hate to quibble over semantics, but Murton's many advocates on this board have enough good arguments without misrepresenting the facts with a bunch of overinflated rhetoric.

[KingCubsFan]

For all the talk about Lou being better than Dusty, he has done an abysmal job putting out the most productive lineups. He has played around with the position players to much, not getting any kind of consistency. He has used Izturis and Jones too much. Murton not enough. The whole Pie fiasco. He has also done a pretty bad job managing the bullpen.

I agree. It's the same old, which is what many expected when he got hired only to be fooled by his bs lies during spring training.

 

why wouldn't he start Floyd, or even Ward at 1B? on what planet would it ever make sense to bat Izturis 2nd?

 

i really can't wait to see Floyd get run out into RF for a week straight so Lou can show him some "respect" now that he's complaining. good times.

A lot of you have VERY short memories. This year, Piniella has already removed Izturis from the starting lineup for Theriot, demoted Eyre, removed Miller, moved Murton to right field, and given Wuertz a spot in the bullpen despite barely playing in spring training. I can guarantee you that none of those would have happened under Baker. I'm not quite sure what these "bs lies" were, but I haven't really seen him stray from his promise to play the people who produce.

So he started DeRosa at first one game and batted Izturis 2nd. At least Izturis is hitting well, and we were facing a lefty which probably explains why Ward didn't play. With Dusty, we'd be seeing that lineup every day with Lee out, and Izturis would have been batting second the whole year. He's made some bad calls (putting Soriano in CF) but overall he has been MUCH better than Dusty

[jersey cubs fan]

We're trading the youngest with potential to be the best of the 3 going forward (if he's not already) b/c we have so much offense, especially OBP, that we can afford to get rid of a good young OBP machine?

 

Matt Murton's career OBP = .368

 

That is not an "OBP machine" under even the most liberal definition of that term.

 

Even assuming Murton's numbers don't go up in the next 3 years as history would indicate (he's entering his peak years now), his .365 OBP last year was top 25 in the NL. Of NL outfielders, it's top 10. For ML outfielders he's tied for 16th. I don't know how good someone has to be to be considered a "machine" but I think being 16 out of 90 in your first full season (when you're 25) is pretty darn good. If we want to quibble over whether that makes him a machine or not, fine. Either way, his OBP isn't something we should be looking to ship out of town to make Cliff friggin Floyd happy.

 

Apparently, the list of OBP "machines" last year included:

 

Nomar

Omar Vizquel

Rafael Furcal

Jamey Carroll

Ichiro

Gary Mathews, Jr.

Robinson Cano

Mark DeRosa

 

Look, I hate to quibble over semantics, but Murton's many advocates on this board have enough good arguments without misrepresenting the facts with a bunch of overinflated rhetoric.

 

How many of those guys have a .368 career OBP. Some of those guys had flash in the pan good OBP. Murton can be expected to have a good OBP year in and year out.

[nick23]

For all the talk about Lou being better than Dusty, he has done an abysmal job putting out the most productive lineups. He has played around with the position players to much, not getting any kind of consistency. He has used Izturis and Jones too much. Murton not enough. The whole Pie fiasco. He has also done a pretty bad job managing the bullpen.

I agree. It's the same old, which is what many expected when he got hired only to be fooled by his bs lies during spring training.

 

why wouldn't he start Floyd, or even Ward at 1B? on what planet would it ever make sense to bat Izturis 2nd?

 

i really can't wait to see Floyd get run out into RF for a week straight so Lou can show him some "respect" now that he's complaining. good times.

A lot of you have VERY short memories. This year, Piniella has already removed Izturis from the starting lineup for Theriot, demoted Eyre, removed Miller, moved Murton to right field, and given Wuertz a spot in the bullpen despite barely playing in spring training. I can guarantee you that none of those would have happened under Baker. I'm not quite sure what these "bs lies" were, but I haven't really seen him stray from his promise to play the people who produce.

So he started DeRosa at first one game and batted Izturis 2nd. At least Izturis is hitting well, and we were facing a lefty which probably explains why Ward didn't play. With Dusty, we'd be seeing that lineup every day with Lee out, and Izturis would have been batting second the whole year. He's made some bad calls (putting Soriano in CF) but overall he has been MUCH better than Dusty

Don't forget, he's also platooning Jacque. It's not like that's some great managerial move since anybody with half a brain would do the same thing. But it's better than what we had.

[soapy]

For all the talk about Lou being better than Dusty, he has done an abysmal job putting out the most productive lineups. He has played around with the position players to much, not getting any kind of consistency. He has used Izturis and Jones too much. Murton not enough. The whole Pie fiasco. He has also done a pretty bad job managing the bullpen.

I agree. It's the same old, which is what many expected when he got hired only to be fooled by his bs lies during spring training.

 

why wouldn't he start Floyd, or even Ward at 1B? on what planet would it ever make sense to bat Izturis 2nd?

 

i really can't wait to see Floyd get run out into RF for a week straight so Lou can show him some "respect" now that he's complaining. good times.

A lot of you have VERY short memories. This year, Piniella has already removed Izturis from the starting lineup for Theriot, demoted Eyre, removed Miller, moved Murton to right field, and given Wuertz a spot in the bullpen despite barely playing in spring training. I can guarantee you that none of those would have happened under Baker. I'm not quite sure what these "bs lies" were, but I haven't really seen him stray from his promise to play the people who produce.

So he started DeRosa at first one game and batted Izturis 2nd. At least Izturis is hitting well, and we were facing a lefty which probably explains why Ward didn't play. With Dusty, we'd be seeing that lineup every day with Lee out, and Izturis would have been batting second the whole year. He's made some bad calls (putting Soriano in CF) but overall he has been MUCH better than Dusty

 

Being better than Dusty isn't good enough, IMO.

 

Izturis is still starting way too much. Theriot should be the full-time SS at this point. Murton has been benched continually for Floyd, Jones and even DeRosa since the switch to RF. He should probably be getting 60-70 percent of the starts at this point, and should never be benched in favor of DeRosa in RF. Beginning the season with Miller as the 5th starter was clearly a stupid mistake and may have costs them a few games. He micromanages too much and ends up having to use someone like Marquis to pinch-hit.

[YearofDaCubs]

For all the talk about Lou being better than Dusty, he has done an abysmal job putting out the most productive lineups. He has played around with the position players to much, not getting any kind of consistency. He has used Izturis and Jones too much. Murton not enough. The whole Pie fiasco. He has also done a pretty bad job managing the bullpen.

I agree. It's the same old, which is what many expected when he got hired only to be fooled by his bs lies during spring training.

 

why wouldn't he start Floyd, or even Ward at 1B? on what planet would it ever make sense to bat Izturis 2nd?

 

i really can't wait to see Floyd get run out into RF for a week straight so Lou can show him some "respect" now that he's complaining. good times.

A lot of you have VERY short memories. This year, Piniella has already removed Izturis from the starting lineup for Theriot, demoted Eyre, removed Miller, moved Murton to right field, and given Wuertz a spot in the bullpen despite barely playing in spring training. I can guarantee you that none of those would have happened under Baker. I'm not quite sure what these "bs lies" were, but I haven't really seen him stray from his promise to play the people who produce.

So he started DeRosa at first one game and batted Izturis 2nd. At least Izturis is hitting well, and we were facing a lefty which probably explains why Ward didn't play. With Dusty, we'd be seeing that lineup every day with Lee out, and Izturis would have been batting second the whole year. He's made some bad calls (putting Soriano in CF) but overall he has been MUCH better than Dusty

 

Being better than Dusty isn't good enough, IMO.

 

Izturis is still starting way too much. Theriot should be the full-time SS at this point. Murton has been benched continually for Floyd, Jones and even DeRosa since the switch to RF. He should probably be getting 60-70 percent of the starts at this point, and should never be benched in favor of DeRosa in RF. Beginning the season with Miller as the 5th starter was clearly a stupid mistake and may have costs them a few games. He micromanages too much and ends up having to use someone like Marquis to pinch-hit.

Boy, has DeRosa been struggling as of late.

[KingCubsFan]

For all the talk about Lou being better than Dusty, he has done an abysmal job putting out the most productive lineups. He has played around with the position players to much, not getting any kind of consistency. He has used Izturis and Jones too much. Murton not enough. The whole Pie fiasco. He has also done a pretty bad job managing the bullpen.

I agree. It's the same old, which is what many expected when he got hired only to be fooled by his bs lies during spring training.

 

why wouldn't he start Floyd, or even Ward at 1B? on what planet would it ever make sense to bat Izturis 2nd?

 

i really can't wait to see Floyd get run out into RF for a week straight so Lou can show him some "respect" now that he's complaining. good times.

A lot of you have VERY short memories. This year, Piniella has already removed Izturis from the starting lineup for Theriot, demoted Eyre, removed Miller, moved Murton to right field, and given Wuertz a spot in the bullpen despite barely playing in spring training. I can guarantee you that none of those would have happened under Baker. I'm not quite sure what these "bs lies" were, but I haven't really seen him stray from his promise to play the people who produce.

So he started DeRosa at first one game and batted Izturis 2nd. At least Izturis is hitting well, and we were facing a lefty which probably explains why Ward didn't play. With Dusty, we'd be seeing that lineup every day with Lee out, and Izturis would have been batting second the whole year. He's made some bad calls (putting Soriano in CF) but overall he has been MUCH better than Dusty

 

Being better than Dusty isn't good enough, IMO.

 

Izturis is still starting way too much. Theriot should be the full-time SS at this point. Murton has been benched continually for Floyd, Jones and even DeRosa since the switch to RF. He should probably be getting 60-70 percent of the starts at this point, and should never be benched in favor of DeRosa in RF. Beginning the season with Miller as the 5th starter was clearly a stupid mistake and may have costs them a few games. He micromanages too much and ends up having to use someone like Marquis to pinch-hit.

Izturis is hitting well right now, which is why he's starting. I don't really have a problem with it unless Lou keeps running him out there when he comes back down to earth. Murton, actually, has not been benched continually for Floyd, Jones and DeRosa since moving to RF. Someone else posted this, but Murton has actually got the majority of at bats in RF since Soriano switched, and Jones now plays a different position so he really shouldn't apply. He didn't have a choice with Miller, as Prior got hurt and Guzman didn't pitch well when given the chance. He should get credit for pulling the plug after 3 starts. I agree with the micromanaging. He subs players in way too much for a manager that wants 12 pitchers

[CubColtPacer]

 

Being better than Dusty isn't good enough, IMO.

 

Izturis is still starting way too much. Theriot should be the full-time SS at this point. Murton has been benched continually for Floyd, Jones and even DeRosa since the switch to RF. He should probably be getting 60-70 percent of the starts at this point, and should never be benched in favor of DeRosa in RF. Beginning the season with Miller as the 5th starter was clearly a stupid mistake and may have costs them a few games. He micromanages too much and ends up having to use someone like Marquis to pinch-hit.

 

Boy, has DeRosa been struggling as of late.

 

Yeah, DeRosa really has struggled lately with the bat. Thankfully, his ISOD is very high right now, which is helping keep his numbers from dropping any further. Here are his May and last 7 day totals:

 

May: .160/.364/.200

Last 7: .077/.368/.077

 

His total numbers still look pretty good though-.240/.350/.440. I think most people expected him somewhere around a 750, so he's still exceeding that on the season, mostly due to his large amount of walks. Hopefully he can turn it around, but if injuries are ever at the right time, last night's might have been it for him (as it was for Soriano) in order to let him sit a few days and come back hopefully out of his slump.

[soapy]

Boy, has DeRosa been struggling as of late.

 

it shouldn't really shock anyone that a 32 year old coming off of career year that's way out of line with his previous production is struggling. i'm sure he'll improve from where he is now, but he's not likely to do anything too noteworthy. he was pretty bad before 2006.

[Soul]

DeRosa better turn it around because he's trending into horrid territory and we could really use the help.

[soapy]

Murton, actually, has not been benched continually for Floyd, Jones and DeRosa since moving to RF. Someone else posted this, but Murton has actually got the majority of at bats in RF since Soriano switched

You're right. i just looked it up and Murton actually has more ABs as a RF than Floyd. It sure doesn't seem like it. I hope that trend continues.

 

He didn't have a choice with Miller, as Prior got hurt and Guzman didn't pitch well when given the chance. He should get credit for pulling the plug after 3 starts.

I disagree. Guzman was the better choice from the beginning. He may not end up with far better than numbers than Miller, but there is at least a solid chance that he will. Miller has shown little to nothing since coming back from rehab, IMO. I really don't see how pulling the plug after only three starts is any feather in Lou's cap. It was stupid to ever have him out there in the first place. Dusty may have kept running him out there, but that's not really saying too much.

[Tracer Bullet]

We're trading the youngest with potential to be the best of the 3 going forward (if he's not already) b/c we have so much offense, especially OBP, that we can afford to get rid of a good young OBP machine?

 

Matt Murton's career OBP = .368

 

That is not an "OBP machine" under even the most liberal definition of that term.

 

Even assuming Murton's numbers don't go up in the next 3 years as history would indicate (he's entering his peak years now), his .365 OBP last year was top 25 in the NL. Of NL outfielders, it's top 10. For ML outfielders he's tied for 16th. I don't know how good someone has to be to be considered a "machine" but I think being 16 out of 90 in your first full season (when you're 25) is pretty darn good. If we want to quibble over whether that makes him a machine or not, fine. Either way, his OBP isn't something we should be looking to ship out of town to make Cliff friggin Floyd happy.

 

Apparently, the list of OBP "machines" last year included:

 

Nomar

Omar Vizquel

Rafael Furcal

Jamey Carroll

Ichiro

Gary Mathews, Jr.

Robinson Cano

Mark DeRosa

 

Look, I hate to quibble over semantics, but Murton's many advocates on this board have enough good arguments without misrepresenting the facts with a bunch of overinflated rhetoric.

 

Misrepresenting facts? If you want to quibble over whether a .368 career OBP equates to Murton being an "OBP machine" - as I said, that's fine. But I'm not misrepresenting any facts. Murton is not great at everything, but he's young and gets on base at a great rate. There's no reason to believe that he won't improve, given his age. A .368 career OBP (esp from a 25-year-old) is great and should in no way be traded to appease Floyd.

 

As for your list of players - all of them had solid OBP's last season. Many of them are on the wrong side of their prime and haven't consistently put up those numbers in the past and shouldn't be expected to put up those numbers in the future. But that's not the case with Murton. Oh - and you cherry-picked quite a list, but Ichiro, at least during his prime (roughly 01-04) was an OBP machine. I have no problem saying that. He's certainly not what he once was but if Murton matches the OBP Ichiro put up during his 27-30 age years, I'd be thrilled.

[cubfan1955]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

[Tracer Bullet]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

 

That's almost too logical.

[cubfan1955]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

 

That's almost too logical.

Yeah, what was I thinking?

[CubColtPacer]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

 

If they leave Soriano at leadoff (which Lou said they will when Lee comes back) then it's better to have Theriot in the 2 spot then Murton, and Murton in a middle of the order spot (5/6/7).

[jersey cubs fan]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

 

If they leave Soriano at leadoff (which Lou said they will when Lee comes back) then it's better to have Theriot in the 2 spot then Murton, and Murton in a middle of the order spot (5/6/7).

 

Why?

[CubColtPacer]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

 

If they leave Soriano at leadoff (which Lou said they will when Lee comes back) then it's better to have Theriot in the 2 spot then Murton, and Murton in a middle of the order spot (5/6/7).

 

Why?

 

The same reason that people want to move Soriano down in the order-they have similar OBP potential right now but Murton has a lot more power potential. That is better utilized in having more opportunities to drive runners in at 5 or 6 than at 2. Also, while Lou is better at this than some managers, he still likes to use his 2 hitter sometimes to go up there to make productive outs. I'd rather use the weaker bat of Theriot in those situations rather than the better bat of Murton's. Finally, and this is a very small reason and doesn't factor in much, but Theriot's speed will make him slightly more likely to score on a Lee or Ramirez double.

 

Now, Theriot's not going to play everyday, and Murton should be in the 2 spot on those other days.

[cubfan1955]

The one thing Murton does reasonable well, getting on base, and they still try to put in a power/RBI spot. How about batting him second and leaving it alone Lou?

 

If they leave Soriano at leadoff (which Lou said they will when Lee comes back) then it's better to have Theriot in the 2 spot then Murton, and Murton in a middle of the order spot (5/6/7).

Two things come to mind. One, I don't like Soriano leading off and have never liked the idea. Playing in the cavernous stadium in DC and hitting 46 homers and yet only having 95 RBIs is ridiculous. I don't really care at this point if he "prefers" to bat leadoff or not. I'd stick him where he would be most useful to the team. I don't believe leadoff is that spot. Two, Theriot could lead off with Murton batting 2nd and bat Soriano either 3rd or 5th.

[Amazing_Grace]

Floyd should really shut up unless he wants the wrath of the fans to come pouring down on him the way it did Jones, Patterson, Hundley, etc. I can understand being upset about it, but complaining to the media is never a good thing.

 

Signing Floyd was stupid. It was a bad move. They already had a lefty pinch hitter and crappy defensive OF in Daryle Ward. They already had DeRosa, Jones, Soriano, Pagan, Murton, and Pie in the mix for OF playing time.

 

Why was Floyd signed? Hendry is an idiot. He signs guys because he likes them instead of looking at the needs of his team and addressing areas of need. He still thinks and acts like a talent scout, going out and getting the guys he thinks are most talented rather than getting the best players. He should go back to being a minor league guy. He did a respectable job of that.

 

I can't blame Piniella for trying to balance the playing time to avoid having a lot of rancor in the clubhouse. Hendry put him in this position, and he has to deal with it. It's very easy to say that a guy should sit, it's another to actually do it. How pissed would you be if some guy the company hired 6 months ago straight out of college was promoted over you? Some people would take it fine, and others would whine and moan to the boss and any coworker who would listen, making the office very unpleasant. I suspect Cliff wouldn't take it well and Lou is trying to keep him from becoming a problem.

 

Other than managing the bullpen like he's still in the AL, I don't see anything really glaring Lou is doing wrong. He's gone out of his way to get Theriot playing time. He's sat DeRosa some and Izturis some based on who's hot. That's hardly favoring veterans.