Lou on Pie...

[jersey cubs fan]

We started Pie's arbi clock so he could ride the bench? Awesome.

 

We needed him b/c we didn't have a legit CF (IMO, Jones does a serviceable job)? That's just poor roster management.

 

Pagan would give us all the offensive production Pie has (not much) and the speed for pinch running.

 

There was no reason to bring Pie up this early.

 

I don't have a problem with calling him up in the first place. They started his arbitration clock, but he won't hit arbitration until he accrues the necessary service time. So sending him down puts a halt to that anyway.

[98navigator]

I think Pagan's defensive prowess is overrated (not that anyone has said he's on Pie's level). I saw him take many bad routes last season and many balls got by him.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I think Pagan's defensive prowess is overrated (not that anyone has said he's on Pie's level). I saw him take many bad routes last season and many balls got by him.

 

I think I brought up Pagan. No, he's definitely not on the same level as Pie defensively.

 

But the only difference between Pagan and Pie to the ML club is defense. Both have speed. Both have mediocre offensive production at the ML level.

 

I just don't see how defense in CF is worth wasting Pie's service time. He needs to be working on hitting lefties and taking walks.

 

Pie couldn't hit lefties in the minors. Major league lefties are going to destroy him.

[CubColtPacer]

I think Pagan's defensive prowess is overrated (not that anyone has said he's on Pie's level). I saw him take many bad routes last season and many balls got by him.

 

I think I brought up Pagan. No, he's definitely not on the same level as Pie defensively.

 

But the only difference between Pagan and Pie to the ML club is defense. Both have speed. Both have mediocre offensive production at the ML level.

 

I just don't see how defense in CF is worth wasting Pie's service time. He needs to be working on hitting lefties and taking walks.

 

Pie couldn't hit lefties in the minors. Major league lefties are going to destroy him.

 

My guess is that Pie will get some chances against major league left-handers coming up-Jacque and Pie will probably split the upcoming starts against LHP.

[swordsman]

Am I wrong or did we bring the hitting coach everyone liked from our minor leagues up to the big club. Maybe that's another reason to keep Pie up here so he can get the best instruction the Cubs can offer in an environment where Pie will always be facing the best opposing pitchers around (when he does bat that is). I don't know, just a thought.

[Derwood]

balancing single player development with overall winning strategy is tough. lou seems to think that pie is helping the club win with his current role.

[jersey cubs fan]

Am I wrong or did we bring the hitting coach everyone liked from our minor leagues up to the big club. Maybe that's another reason to keep Pie up here so he can get the best instruction the Cubs can offer in an environment where Pie will always be facing the best opposing pitchers around (when he does bat that is). I don't know, just a thought.

 

I assume you are talking about Von Joshua. He is at Iowa.

[Backtobanks]

Jones is playing very well and Pie is helping us win. That is what I want. Lou is doing the right thing.

 

The reasons Pie is still with the Cubs are that Jones is playing great and Cedeno was totally clueless. Keeping Cedeno on the team served no purpose because he couldn't help offensively or defensively. Pie has shown some spark offensively in very limited duty and has been great defensively. You summed it up when you said Pie is helping the Cubs win while Cedeno wasn't doing anything to help the club win.

[CoolHandLuke]

Am I wrong or did we bring the hitting coach everyone liked from our minor leagues up to the big club. Maybe that's another reason to keep Pie up here so he can get the best instruction the Cubs can offer in an environment where Pie will always be facing the best opposing pitchers around (when he does bat that is). I don't know, just a thought.

 

I think you are thinking of Von Joshua perhaps, and no we did not give him a job on the major league coaching staff. Gerald Perry is our hitting coach. He previously served the role with the A's, the Pirates and the Mariners.

[cubfan1955]

Two things...

 

1) The title of this thread makes for some disturbing thoughts...

 

2) Why does a lot of people want to trade Jones? He's been doing pretty good.

[Derwood]

Two things...

 

1) The title of this thread makes for some disturbing thoughts...

 

2) Why does a lot of people want to trade Jones? He's been doing pretty good.

 

the answer to #2 goes back to his initial signing, which everyone hated. little did they know that his deal would be pennies on the dollar compared to what GMJ or Pierre got this year

[soapy]

Oh yeah, I also wanted to mention my dissapointment in DeRosa starting in RF yesterday. I'm not sure why Lou is so down on Murton right now. I hope that wasn't a sign of things to come. They are better off with Theriot starting at SS with DeRosa at 2B.

[Warpticon]

Is it really hard to figure out why people want to trade Jones? Yes, some of it is bad contract hangover, but he overproduced expectations last season and contracts went sky-high this offseason, so his deal is actually pretty good in this market now. The real reason is because there's a logjam in the outfield, and Jones is the most movable piece available. You have Murton and Pie, who need more playing time, and Jones is playing on and off in both of their available positions. What else are you going to trade? Floyd? Ward? you won't get anything for them. Pie? Murton? that's defeating the purpose.

[anabiono]

people, myself included, want jones traded because of his nickname

 

what do you do with it?

 

you throw it away...

 

packratting is not healthy

[DesMoinesCub]

I understand why you would move Jones, but I honestly don't think it makes the ballclub better to trade him.

 

You know Soriano is going to be in left, which leaves Murton, Pie, Jones, and Floyd for the other two spots. Of the 4 mentioned, Jones and Pie play center, and right now, Jones will out produce Pie and make the ball club better (offensively). Which leaves Floyd and Murton in Right.

 

In my opinion, and feel free to disagree, the best OF the Cubs can put on the field right now are Soriano, Jones, and Murton (although a hot Floyd could be used as well). Jones as a CF is much more valueable then Jones the RF.

[biittner77]

Promote Prior then send him to the 60 day DL (a necessary but annoying step)

Add Chris Walker to the 40 man roster replacing Prior

Demote Pie and replace him with Walker.

 

Walker replaces the speed and defense that Pie is currently providing. He's a switch hitter which makes him at least appear more valuable. Walker is 26 and the Cubs won't be hurting his long time prospects by having him ride the MLB bench, in fact they'd probably be helping him considerably. Walker also has the advantage of not being Angel Pagan.

[Garwilly]

Promote Prior then send him to the 60 day DL (a necessary but annoying step)

Add Chris Walker to the 40 man roster replacing Prior

Demote Pie and replace him with Walker.

 

Walker replaces the speed and defense that Pie is currently providing. He's a switch hitter which makes him at least appear more valuable. Walker is 26 and the Cubs won't be hurting his long time prospects by having him ride the MLB bench, in fact they'd probably be helping him considerably. Walker also has the advantage of not being Angel Pagan.

 

 

Then Prior's FA clock is ticking again.

[biittner77]

Promote Prior then send him to the 60 day DL (a necessary but annoying step)

Add Chris Walker to the 40 man roster replacing Prior

Demote Pie and replace him with Walker.

 

Walker replaces the speed and defense that Pie is currently providing. He's a switch hitter which makes him at least appear more valuable. Walker is 26 and the Cubs won't be hurting his long time prospects by having him ride the MLB bench, in fact they'd probably be helping him considerably. Walker also has the advantage of not being Angel Pagan.

 

 

Then Prior's FA clock is ticking again.

 

Don't care. Prior will not be in a position to demand a huge contract.

[Rob]

Promote Prior then send him to the 60 day DL (a necessary but annoying step)

Add Chris Walker to the 40 man roster replacing Prior

Demote Pie and replace him with Walker.

 

Walker replaces the speed and defense that Pie is currently providing. He's a switch hitter which makes him at least appear more valuable. Walker is 26 and the Cubs won't be hurting his long time prospects by having him ride the MLB bench, in fact they'd probably be helping him considerably. Walker also has the advantage of not being Angel Pagan.

 

 

Then Prior's FA clock is ticking again.

 

Don't care. Prior will not be in a position to demand a huge contract.

 

Or we could just DFA Pagan to get him off the 40 man.

[biittner77]

I'm not positive but I believe they already removed Pagan from the 40 man at the end of ST.

[Rob]

I'm not positive but I believe they already removed Pagan from the 40 man at the end of ST.

 

He and Coats are both listed on the Cubs.com 40 man roster.

[cubfan1955]

Is it really hard to figure out why people want to trade Jones? Yes, some of it is bad contract hangover, but he overproduced expectations last season and contracts went sky-high this offseason, so his deal is actually pretty good in this market now. The real reason is because there's a logjam in the outfield, and Jones is the most movable piece available. You have Murton and Pie, who need more playing time, and Jones is playing on and off in both of their available positions. What else are you going to trade? Floyd? Ward? you won't get anything for them. Pie? Murton? that's defeating the purpose.

Well yes frankly it is a little hard to understand. He makes the Cubs better to have in CF then to not have him in CF. Who is going to out produce him? Pie is very questionable offensively and I don't see Soriano moving back there. Plus, I don't have a whole lot of faith in Hendry getting anything of value for him. So, for everyone that wants him traded, what do you think we could get? (reasonably)

[Yestheydo]

Since when did anyone need a reason to want Jacque Jones traded? It's the default position.

 

Huh?

 

I remember the day the world came to an end. I saw all this violently bitter hatred directed at Jim Hendry and I'm like, "Whoa, he musta got caught raping a baby or something." But no, he just had the audacity to sign Jacque Jones. Some people are genuinely astonished when he plays well. It's hilarious.

[Rob]

Is it really hard to figure out why people want to trade Jones? Yes, some of it is bad contract hangover, but he overproduced expectations last season and contracts went sky-high this offseason, so his deal is actually pretty good in this market now. The real reason is because there's a logjam in the outfield, and Jones is the most movable piece available. You have Murton and Pie, who need more playing time, and Jones is playing on and off in both of their available positions. What else are you going to trade? Floyd? Ward? you won't get anything for them. Pie? Murton? that's defeating the purpose.

Well yes frankly it is a little hard to understand. He makes the Cubs better to have in CF then to not have him in CF. Who is going to out produce him? Pie is very questionable offensively and I don't see Soriano moving back there. Plus, I don't have a whole lot of faith in Hendry getting anything of value for him. So, for everyone that wants him traded, what do you think we could get? (reasonably)

 

Pie is only questionable cause Lou isn't find him enough at bats. Even at that, he's 9 for his last 30 and he's got the potential to be better than Jacque with the bat right now. Bottom line is, moving to Pie in center really isn't a downgrade when factoring in defense... and there's more upside there for Pie.

 

Meanwhile, Jacque is playing better than we can reasonably expect him to for the rest of the season, and we may be well served to see what we could get for him on the open market. Nobody here is suggesting that we just ship him off to whoever wont make us pay most of the contract... but if we can get a decent offer there is absolutely no reason not to trade him. He's redundant.

[jersey cubs fan]

Since when did anyone need a reason to want Jacque Jones traded? It's the default position.

 

Huh?

 

I remember the day the world came to an end. I saw all this violently bitter hatred directed at Jim Hendry and I'm like, "Whoa, he musta got caught raping a baby or something." But no, he just had the audacity to sign Jacque Jones. Some people are genuinely astonished when he plays well. It's hilarious.

 

Jacque Jones was exactly the type of player this team didn't need and exactly the type of player Jim Hendry would sign and try to pass off as a great addition.

 

This team was desperate for OF production, and had been for a while. They were also desperate for OBP help, and the Cubs went out and got an impatient unproductive OF bat. He's not a blackhole type hitter, and occasionally does well, but he's not what this team needed if they wanted to start contending for championships.

 

To top it off he started his Cubs career terribly, threw like somebody who picked up a baseball for the first time and got picked off the bases repeatedly, with no repercusion because of his veteran status. Frankly I don't understand why people don't understand the argument against Jacque.

 

If this was a 95 win team he'd be a wonderful space filler. Unfortunately the 2006 Cubs desperately needed some big time production, and just like he always has, Jim Hendry got the wrong man for the job.