Why can't Theriot play SS?

[Abe Frohman]

He may have had a good enouph arm at LSU, but that doesn't mean he does at this level. Also, there is probably a reason the Cubs moved him from SS.

 

Theriot has been around 90 on the gun before - that's a pretty strong arm at any level of baseball.

 

And to say Theriot is 5'11 is VERY generous. Unless he has become taller in the past 4 years.

[OleMissCub]

He may have had a good enouph arm at LSU, but that doesn't mean he does at this level. Also, there is probably a reason the Cubs moved him from SS.

 

1st, I'm not sure there is that much of a difference in arm speed required for an SEC shortstop and an MLB shortstop. Arm strength is arm strength.

 

2nd, Theriot played 189 games at SS in the minors and 206 at 2B. So he was obviously good enough to play SS for at least half his minor league career.

 

3rd, Theriot's SS fielding percentage in those 189 games was .943. Cedeno played 293 games as SS in the minors and fielded .905

[NewUserName]

Arm strength can be overcome. Again a reference to Eckstein. He has a poor arm and yet positions himself well and isnt a defensive liability.

[The Voice of Reason]

Trying Theriot at short may be worth a shot as things become more desperate but the thought of it does make me recall a quote from Terry Sullivan, the great Boston Red Sox scout.

 

 

"A second baseman is a failed shortstop. If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be. A shortstop can easily move to second base but moving a second baseman to shortstop rarely works."

[OleMissCub]

Trying Theriot at short may be worth a shot as things become more desperate but the thought of it does make me recall a quote from Terry Sullivan, the great Boston Red Sox scout.

 

 

"A second baseman is a failed shortstop. If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be. A shortstop can easily move to second base but moving a second baseman to shortstop rarely works."

 

That's not always true. Not at all. Sometimes guys are moved to second out of necessity. You really want to play the guy at SS but there is a good SS already ahead of him, so they move him to 2B. I've seen that happen on numerous occasions.

[biittner77]

The fact that he played SS in college isn't very meaningful. Most MI that get drafted played there at some point.

 

The question we should be asking is why did he get moved from SS? Probably because his range and his arm were not suited for the position long term.

 

Theriot at SS is a band aid solution. Lack of production by the OF is what's really hurting the Cubs right now.

And that black hole that is Cedeno/Izturis isn't? At least one can reasonably expect that the offensive production from the OF is going to pick up. The same can't be said for Izturis or Cedeno.

 

Going into the year, realistically, we could expect little from any of the SS offensively. It's safe to say that though they are bad, their production isn't all that much lower than expected. Soriano, Jones and Floyd have all been disappointing. These are the players that we expected to produce that aren't. If these guys were hitting we wouldn't really care that Izturis and Cedeno weren't.

 

The point is that while Theriot and Derosa are better than Theriot and Izturis or Cedeno the difference is not big enough to really make that much of a difference. The Cubs need their OF to hit.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Theriot played 91 games at SS last season at AAA...to 32 at second base. He can play SS in the big leagues, but he's not as good defensively as Izturis or Cedeno. Edited April 24, 2007 by CaliforniaRaisin

[The Voice of Reason]

Trying Theriot at short may be worth a shot as things become more desperate but the thought of it does make me recall a quote from Terry Sullivan, the great Boston Red Sox scout.

 

 

"A second baseman is a failed shortstop. If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be. A shortstop can easily move to second base but moving a second baseman to shortstop rarely works."

 

That's not always true. Not at all. Sometimes guys are moved to second out of necessity. You really want to play the guy at SS but there is a good SS already ahead of him, so they move him to 2B. I've seen that happen on numerous occasions.

 

You are actually agreeing with Terry's point. Which is that he's not going to waste his time scouting the second best SS on the team. If he needs a second baseman, he'll just take the SS and convert him. By "failed" he means not the starting SS.

 

Just curious, does anyone know how many current big league shortstops are converted second basemen?

[YearofDaCubs]

The fact that he played SS in college isn't very meaningful. Most MI that get drafted played there at some point.

 

The question we should be asking is why did he get moved from SS? Probably because his range and his arm were not suited for the position long term.

 

Theriot at SS is a band aid solution. Lack of production by the OF is what's really hurting the Cubs right now.

And that black hole that is Cedeno/Izturis isn't? At least one can reasonably expect that the offensive production from the OF is going to pick up. The same can't be said for Izturis or Cedeno.

 

Going into the year, realistically, we could expect little from any of the SS offensively. It's safe to say that though they are bad, their production isn't all that much lower than expected. Soriano, Jones and Floyd have all been disappointing. These are the players that we expected to produce that aren't. If these guys were hitting we wouldn't really care that Izturis and Cedeno weren't.

 

The point is that while Theriot and Derosa are better than Theriot and Izturis or Cedeno the difference is not big enough to really make that much of a difference. The Cubs need their OF to hit.

At this point every little counts. Allowing Theriot to play over Izturis is significant in that Theriot could bat 2nd while Izturis 8th. Riot has been hitting well as of late, it would be nice to get rid of the 0/4 performance Izturis gives us and add a hit or two here and there.

 

Soriano

Theriot

Lee

ARam

Murton/Floyd

Jones

Barrett

DeRosa

PITCHER

 

I like this lineup right now.

[OleMissCub]

You are actually agreeing with Terry's point. Which is that he's not going to waste his time scouting the second best SS on the team. If he needs a second baseman, he'll just take the SS and convert him. By "failed" he means not the starting SS.

 

No, I don't think so. Because Terry seems to be disparaging the talents of that SS who is going to be converted:

 

If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be.

 

That's not always true.

[OleMissCub]

Just curious, does anyone know how many current big league shortstops are converted second basemen?

 

Eckstein didn't play SS much at all until he got to the bigs.

[windycityfan]

 

Soriano

Theriot

Lee

ARam

Murton/Floyd

Jones

Barrett

DeRosa

PITCHER

 

I like this lineup right now.

 

Flip flop Barrett and Jones and you've got a lineup that will compete. Sooner or later.

[jyoung55]

Trying Theriot at short may be worth a shot as things become more desperate but the thought of it does make me recall a quote from Terry Sullivan, the great Boston Red Sox scout.

 

 

"A second baseman is a failed shortstop. If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be. A shortstop can easily move to second base but moving a second baseman to shortstop rarely works."

 

That's not always true. Not at all. Sometimes guys are moved to second out of necessity. You really want to play the guy at SS but there is a good SS already ahead of him, so they move him to 2B. I've seen that happen on numerous occasions.

 

You are actually agreeing with Terry's point. Which is that he's not going to waste his time scouting the second best SS on the team. If he needs a second baseman, he'll just take the SS and convert him. By "failed" he means not the starting SS.

 

Just curious, does anyone know how many current big league shortstops are converted second basemen?

 

Recently there was this one guy that you may have heard of in New York that was moved to 2b because the team already had some hot Japanese prospect with a big ego that they were worried about keeping at SS. It didn't work well for either player but it does show that it can happen that people get moved to 2b from SS for reasons other than skill or perhaps the skill evalution and scouting is just wrong.

[YearofDaCubs]

Michael Young

[neely crenshaw]

why we wouldn't we play him there?

we put a bad left fielder in center and it's noit like that is an important defensive spot!

 

how did hendry coach well in college?

only he could put together a team that is weakest defensively right up the middle.

[VanceJergins]

DeRosa has played well over 100 games at SS in the majors. Surely either he or Theriot could handle it. Just getting Izturis and Cedeno out of the lineup would improve it dramatically. Its sad that I'm excited when Izturis only makes one out in an at bat.

[NewUserName]

You are actually agreeing with Terry's point. Which is that he's not going to waste his time scouting the second best SS on the team. If he needs a second baseman, he'll just take the SS and convert him. By "failed" he means not the starting SS.

 

No, I don't think so. Because Terry seems to be disparaging the talents of that SS who is going to be converted:

 

If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be.

 

That's not always true.

 

 

I think there are cases where a player gets moved from SS because there is someone else in his way also. Sandberg being a example. Theriot was playing 2nd last year because our management team at the time had faith in Izturis and Cedeno. If Maddux wasnt traded for Izturis but for a outfielder instead would Theriot have played some SS last fall? I know Izturis was hurt but he was pencilled in as the SS for the next few years already.

[OleMissCub]

DeRosa has played well over 100 games at SS in the majors. Surely either he or Theriot could handle it. Just getting Izturis and Cedeno out of the lineup would improve it dramatically. Its sad that I'm excited when Izturis only makes one out in an at bat.

 

647 of his 1158 games played in professional baseball have been at SS.

 

He fielded .963 in those games. Which is better than Ronny or Theriot ever did at SS.

[The Voice of Reason]

You are actually agreeing with Terry's point. Which is that he's not going to waste his time scouting the second best SS on the team. If he needs a second baseman, he'll just take the SS and convert him. By "failed" he means not the starting SS.

 

No, I don't think so. Because Terry seems to be disparaging the talents of that SS who is going to be converted:

 

If they were good enough to play short at the major league level they already would be.

 

That's not always true.

 

 

I think there are cases where a player gets moved from SS because there is someone else in his way also. Sandberg being a example. Theriot was playing 2nd last year because our management team at the time had faith in Izturis and Cedeno. If Maddux wasnt traded for Izturis but for a outfielder instead would Theriot have played some SS last fall? I know Izturis was hurt but he was pencilled in as the SS for the next few years already.

 

Sandberg is a perfect example of moving an average shortstop with decent range first to 3B and then to 2B where he became a gold glove/ HOF second baseman. If he was a great SS, the Cubs would have moved him back there after Bowa.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think Theriot would be fine at SS. If we can put Floyd in at RF, we can at least try The Riot at short.

 

You'd rather have Floyd than Jones in RF? A Soriano, Pie, and Jones OF would be fine with me for now. Eventually I'd envision Soriano, Pie, and Murton in the OF.

 

No, but Lou played Floyd there. My statement was meant to imply that if Lou would try Floyd in RF, he should surely try Theriot at SS.

[OleMissCub]

I think Theriot would be fine at SS. If we can put Floyd in at RF, we can at least try The Riot at short.

 

You'd rather have Floyd than Jones in RF? A Soriano, Pie, and Jones OF would be fine with me for now. Eventually I'd envision Soriano, Pie, and Murton in the OF.

 

No, but Lou played Floyd there. My statement was meant to imply that if Lou would try Floyd in RF, he should surely try Theriot at SS.

 

Gotcha.

[The Voice of Reason]

Michael Young

 

OK, Eckstein (sort of) and Young. Two out of 30. Any others?

[WrigleyField 22]

Michael Young

 

OK, Eckstein (sort of) and Young. Two out of 30. Any others?

 

Sort of?

 

He played a whopping 17 games at SS in his minor league career.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/E/David-Eckstein.shtml

[OleMissCub]

Michael Young

 

OK, Eckstein (sort of) and Young. Two out of 30. Any others?

 

What's your point?

 

Theriot isn't like Young or Eckstein. He isn't a second basemen by trade like they were, he's a SS who was put at 2b for whatever reason.

[The Voice of Reason]

Michael Young

 

OK, Eckstein (sort of) and Young. Two out of 30. Any others?

 

What's your point?

 

Theriot isn't like Young or Eckstein. He isn't a second basemen by trade like they were, he's a SS who was put at 2b for whatever reason.

 

Since 2001, Theriot has played SS in 103 games in Class A ball and 86 games at SS in Class AA ball. He has played 2B in 117 games at A ball and 86 games at AA ball.

 

My point simply is that moving a utility player with limited A and AA ball experience at SS to that position in the big leagues is not as easy as a lot of you guys are making it out to be.

 

http://

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Ryan-Theriot.shtml