4/10 Post Game Thread: Come on

[Derwood]

i have grown to hate the phrase "One Bad Inning"

[98navigator]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

[Banedon]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

[Fro]

Marquis didn't have a good outing by any stretch of the imagination, but he didn't pitch us out of the game today.

[98navigator]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

This doesn't tell the whole story. He was fine after the first inning. If the Cubs had scored runs, while he was in the game, and played error-free ball, he wouldn't have been lifted for a pinch hitter. He did walk a few people but I don't think any of those scored. The errors probably robbed him of at least one more inning of work (maybe two).

 

There's no guarantee those innings would have been run free. I'm not saying that tells the whole story, but it tells enough of the story to debunk the myth that he did a good job. He recovered from his own crap start, but that doesn't negate what he did earlier.

 

3 runs in the first inning is never good however, the team isn't going to win many games if it can't overcome its starters surrendering 3 runs. I can only go by the trend of the game; which was that he settled down after the first inning. Again, without the sloppy play he would have pitched into the sixth inning at minimum.

[jersey cubs fan]

Really though, the Cubs biggest thing missing from their offense is the home run. They've kept their SLG all right so far because of some doubles (some that were singles stretched into doubles-Soriano and Izturis with 4 doubles, Lee with 3), but they only have 4 HR overall and only 1 that wasn't a solo HR. That is not going to continue all season long-they are on pace for 81 HR, and they likely will hit more than double that. That's not the only thing wrong with the offense so far, but that is by far the biggest thing right now.

 

Probably true. The Cubs have just 4 HR this year and have given up 9. But they are also struggling with OBP. It's .313 overall, and sub .300 in each of the past 3 games.

[Derwood]

Really though, the Cubs biggest thing missing from their offense is the home run. They've kept their SLG all right so far because of some doubles (some that were singles stretched into doubles-Soriano and Izturis with 4 doubles, Lee with 3), but they only have 4 HR overall and only 1 that wasn't a solo HR. That is not going to continue all season long-they are on pace for 81 HR, and they likely will hit more than double that. That's not the only thing wrong with the offense so far, but that is by far the biggest thing right now.

 

Probably true. The Cubs have just 4 HR this year and have given up 9. But they are also struggling with OBP. It's .313 overall, and sub .300 in each of the past 3 games.

 

and against middling to bad pitchers. very, very frustrating

[jersey cubs fan]

3 runs in the first inning is never good however, the team isn't going to win many games if it can't overcome its starters surrendering 3 runs. I can only go by the trend of the game; which was that he settled down after the first inning. Again, without the sloppy play he would have pitched into the sixth inning at minimum.

 

Fine, he might have pitched into the 6th, but there's no way to guarantee it would have been scoreless. You can't just assume a scoreless inning trend will continue, especially with a bad pitcher on the mound.

[ronsanto10]

you cant win the world series in april, but you can lose it in april....i have yet to see the powerful cubs bats, except for a few appearances, but im scared about the bullpen....and i wont even mention what IZ did today...3 errors ....i know its early and all that jazz.....but still, the astros limped into wrigley and so far they made the cubs look bad....

[rynefan]

Right now, after 8 games, they stink, plain and simple. Are there bright spots? Sure. But not only do they stink, they're BORING. Thankfully they might get "snowed out" on Wed. Then they'd have 2 days off to regroup.

[CUBZ99]

Marquis is satan, please release him now. In fact, I am blaming all 5 of our losses now on him.

 

Yes, I bet if Matt Murton had pitched the Astros would have been lucky to get a hit.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Really though, the Cubs biggest thing missing from their offense is the home run. They've kept their SLG all right so far because of some doubles (some that were singles stretched into doubles-Soriano and Izturis with 4 doubles, Lee with 3), but they only have 4 HR overall and only 1 that wasn't a solo HR. That is not going to continue all season long-they are on pace for 81 HR, and they likely will hit more than double that. That's not the only thing wrong with the offense so far, but that is by far the biggest thing right now.

 

Probably true. The Cubs have just 4 HR this year and have given up 9. But they are also struggling with OBP. It's .313 overall, and sub .300 in each of the past 3 games.

 

I don't know what our BABIP is lately, but it has to suck.

 

Soriano in particular needs to take a freaking walk.

[CubColtPacer]

3 runs in the first inning is never good however, the team isn't going to win many games if it can't overcome its starters surrendering 3 runs. I can only go by the trend of the game; which was that he settled down after the first inning. Again, without the sloppy play he would have pitched into the sixth inning at minimum.

 

Fine, he might have pitched into the 6th, but there's no way to guarantee it would have been scoreless. You can't just assume a scoreless inning trend will continue, especially with a bad pitcher on the mound.

 

True, but the 8/9/1 spots were due up and they were a combined 0-7 against Marquis on the day. It's at least likely that he goes scoreless in the 6th if Lou had left him out there.

[Derwood]

 

Soriano in particular needs to take a freaking walk.

 

from what i gather, that's not exactly his cup of tea

[RichHillIsABeast]

 

Soriano in particular needs to take a freaking walk.

 

from what i gather, that's not exactly his cup of tea

 

Today he worked the count full and then struck out swinging on a FB up and in. How do you do that? I understand chasing a pitch low and outside or going down looking, but geez.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anyone extracting a serious argument from what's said in the game thread probably shouldn't stay in the game thread.

 

Marquis was really bad in the first. After that he stopped giving up runs, but he walked a guy an inning for the remainder of his start. He had a bad outing.

 

I left after Guzman's first inning and didn't even "see" that, so can someone tell me how his stuff was, the type of contact he was giving up, etc?

Edited April 10, 2007 by Transmogrified Tiger

[Soul]

I don't know about the rest of you.

 

But it occurs to me that other teams sometimes win when the opposition scores more than 3 runs. More than 4, even! Heck, the Cards won semi-regularly last year with their opponents scoring more than 5.

 

So here comes Captain Obvious: why can't we be more like those other teams, instead of constantly complaining when a pitcher doesn't have a Cy Young type outing?

[98navigator]

3 runs in the first inning is never good however, the team isn't going to win many games if it can't overcome its starters surrendering 3 runs. I can only go by the trend of the game; which was that he settled down after the first inning. Again, without the sloppy play he would have pitched into the sixth inning at minimum.

 

Fine, he might have pitched into the 6th, but there's no way to guarantee it would have been scoreless. You can't just assume a scoreless inning trend will continue, especially with a bad pitcher on the mound.

 

 

Zambrano and Miller are the only starters to really have poor outings.

 

Marquis has pitched well enough, in his two games, for the team to win. Heck, most of the starters have pitched well enough to allow the team to win. The Astros scored 3 ERs. If the Cubs can't score 4 runs a game they will be in trouble...

 

Having said that, I fully expect the offense to come around, but I also expect that Marquis will get into the 6th or 7th inning everytime he pitches. He could have/ probably should have pitched into the seventh in his first start but Lou opted to take him out.

 

Today's game was about a lack of offense, and sloppy defense, not poor pitching.

[brinoch]

Really though, the Cubs biggest thing missing from their offense is the home run. They've kept their SLG all right so far because of some doubles (some that were singles stretched into doubles-Soriano and Izturis with 4 doubles, Lee with 3), but they only have 4 HR overall and only 1 that wasn't a solo HR. That is not going to continue all season long-they are on pace for 81 HR, and they likely will hit more than double that. That's not the only thing wrong with the offense so far, but that is by far the biggest thing right now.

 

Probably true. The Cubs have just 4 HR this year and have given up 9. But they are also struggling with OBP. It's .313 overall, and sub .300 in each of the past 3 games.

 

and against middling to bad pitchers. very, very frustrating

 

And yet so very, very familiar.

[brinoch]

Marquis is satan, please release him now. In fact, I am blaming all 5 of our losses now on him.

 

Yes, I bet if Matt Murton had pitched the Astros would have been lucky to get a hit.

 

That's true. He'd have walked them all.

[98navigator]

Shame on Marquis for not pitching a shutout today.

 

 

5.40 ERA

1.60 WHIP

 

I guess people think that's good around here.

 

Compared to last year, its probably good.

 

We were in the game today. That's about all you can ask a guy like Marquis.

 

No offense, but thats under the same line of thinking as "Who cares if his ERA was 6.02, he won 14 games!"

 

No. Marquis did his part to win the game. He go no run support. I don't know a pitcher out there who wins a game with the offense putting up goose eggs.

 

Agreed. No use splitting hairs here.

 

It's not splitting hairs. Follow my logic.

 

You say that if the Cubs did their part and scored runs, then we'd win the game.

 

So if every game, Marquis threw 5 innings of 3 ER ball. And most every game, the offense responded and won. So at the end of the year, Marquis won 20 games and had a 5.40 ERA.

 

Any way you look at it, he would have had a bad year statistically. It doesn't matter that he won 20 games, when being judged and compared to the rest of the pitchers of the year, his numbers would be quite poor other then wins and losses.

 

You know, I understand your point completely, a 5.40 ERA is terrible but ultimately, I don't care about the individual statistics. Winning is the bottom line. He kept the team in the game when it looked like he was about to implode.

 

BTW, would you really care if Marquis won 20 games with a 5.40 ERA and 1.60 WHIP? I sure wouldn't.

 

Through 2 games, Marquis has a 3.27 ERA. He's pitched better than Zambrano to start the year (IIRC, Z could have given up more than 5 ER in his first start if the bullpen had let his inherited runners score). Really, why are we pointing out his flaws? This isn't just directed at you... The lack of a consistent offense is much more of a concern.

Edited April 10, 2007 by 98navigator

[98navigator]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

 

 

well, what he actually did was keep the team in the game.

[Vinestal]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

 

 

well, what he actually did was keep the team in the game.

 

I agree! He did! He did keep his team in the game.

[UMFan83]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

 

 

well, what he actually did was keep the team in the game.

 

I agree! He did! He did keep his team in the game.

 

So if the offense scored 7 runs and he allowed 10, did he do a good job of 'keeping his team in the game'?

[Derwood]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

Woah there sparky, three errors and a horrible day in the field should also be factored into account on those stats. I bet Lou is going to have a field day with this kind of effort... YIKES! Hate to be in the locker room.

 

You understand that errors don't contribute to ERA or WHIP, right?

 

No they don't but without the errors, one could make a case that his ERA could have been lowered just by virtue of pitching deeper in the game. The errors extended the innings and raised his pitch count which contributed to Marquis only pitching 5 innings. That's what he's saying.

 

Bah..he could have pitched longer and given up 5 more runs too. The what-if game is a dangerous game. Lets go on what he actually did.

 

 

well, what he actually did was keep the team in the game.

 

I agree! He did! He did keep his team in the game.

 

So if the offense scored 7 runs and he allowed 10, did he do a good job of 'keeping his team in the game'?

 

that's different and you know it