Cubs on Dan Patrick (ESPN radio)

[goonys evil twin]

The Cubs suck because the fans show up...that reminds me of that CubsBearsnBulls guy.

 

Well, Sweet Lou said it can cause complacency so perhaps you might take it up with him.

 

baseball people never say foolish things based on conventional wisdom with no basis in reality.

[badger1679666666]

can we talk more about Grace sharting himself.

 

:lol:

 

Woody's in trouble when they hang out tonight.

[Soul]

They reached 3 million in attendance for the first time in 2004. Then they maintained it throughout 2005 and 2006, despite, as goony said, "sustained crappiness."

 

The idea that Cub fans leave when the team sucks is, quite simply, incorrect. The only thing that has helped change the paradigm is the World Series on the other side of town, and the resultant no-shows which appeared last year. For decades, Cub fans were known for not booing, and continuing to show up no matter what. This has changed.

 

 

You are simply wrong.

 

2004 spiked because of 2003 results. 2005 stayed high because of 2003/2004 results. Attendance spikes in the years following the playoffs. Additionally, tickets sales were in party driven by the huge profit margins on the secondary market. Fans had very high expectations in 2005 based on the relative youth of the core. By 2006 however, people started taking a bath on unused tickets. They sold out early, on higher expectations, but butts in the seats was clearly lower. And they would have stayed lower in 2007 had it not been for huge offseason investment.

 

Explain the '87 - '93 flap then.

[Soul]

The Cubs suck because the fans show up...that reminds me of that CubsBearsnBulls guy.

 

Well, Sweet Lou said it can cause complacency so perhaps you might take it up with him.

 

baseball people never say foolish things based on conventional wisdom with no basis in reality.

 

I'll take the comment of a salty vet like Piniella about what does and doesn't affect players over posters on this board. No offense.

[KaiserCesar]

They reached 3 million in attendance for the first time in 2004. Then they maintained it throughout 2005 and 2006, despite, as goony said, "sustained crappiness."

 

The idea that Cub fans leave when the team sucks is, quite simply, incorrect. The only thing that has helped change the paradigm is the World Series on the other side of town, and the resultant no-shows which appeared last year. For decades, Cub fans were known for not booing, and continuing to show up no matter what. This has changed.

 

 

You are simply wrong.

 

2004 spiked because of 2003 results. 2005 stayed high because of 2003/2004 results. Attendance spikes in the years following the playoffs. Additionally, tickets sales were in party driven by the huge profit margins on the secondary market. Fans had very high expectations in 2005 based on the relative youth of the core. By 2006 however, people started taking a bath on unused tickets. They sold out early, on higher expectations, but butts in the seats was clearly lower. And they would have stayed lower in 2007 had it not been for huge offseason investment.

 

Explain the '87 - '93 flap then.

 

Should 15-20 year old attendance figures really be used to classify the current fanbase's mentality?

[Soul]

They reached 3 million in attendance for the first time in 2004. Then they maintained it throughout 2005 and 2006, despite, as goony said, "sustained crappiness."

 

The idea that Cub fans leave when the team sucks is, quite simply, incorrect. The only thing that has helped change the paradigm is the World Series on the other side of town, and the resultant no-shows which appeared last year. For decades, Cub fans were known for not booing, and continuing to show up no matter what. This has changed.

 

 

You are simply wrong.

 

2004 spiked because of 2003 results. 2005 stayed high because of 2003/2004 results. Attendance spikes in the years following the playoffs. Additionally, tickets sales were in party driven by the huge profit margins on the secondary market. Fans had very high expectations in 2005 based on the relative youth of the core. By 2006 however, people started taking a bath on unused tickets. They sold out early, on higher expectations, but butts in the seats was clearly lower. And they would have stayed lower in 2007 had it not been for huge offseason investment.

 

Explain the '87 - '93 flap then.

 

Should 15-20 year old attendance figures really be used to classify the current fanbase's mentality?

 

I'm saying no such thing. I've already said current Cub fans are expecting more, and showing a renewed willingness to express their displeasure.

[BigbadB]

The fans sure didn't make Jacque Jones feel complacent last year.

 

The lovable losers tag might have held up at one time, but those days are long gone. 2003 changed things forever, IMO.

 

Big money is being spent. Ticket prices are going up every year. Quality talent is being brought in and promoted. The fans expect the Cubs to field a winner now more than ever.

 

Dusty was the very definition of complacency. He was a bad fit to manage this club the last 4 years.

Edited March 7, 2007 by BigbadB

[KaiserCesar]

They reached 3 million in attendance for the first time in 2004. Then they maintained it throughout 2005 and 2006, despite, as goony said, "sustained crappiness."

 

The idea that Cub fans leave when the team sucks is, quite simply, incorrect. The only thing that has helped change the paradigm is the World Series on the other side of town, and the resultant no-shows which appeared last year. For decades, Cub fans were known for not booing, and continuing to show up no matter what. This has changed.

 

 

You are simply wrong.

 

2004 spiked because of 2003 results. 2005 stayed high because of 2003/2004 results. Attendance spikes in the years following the playoffs. Additionally, tickets sales were in party driven by the huge profit margins on the secondary market. Fans had very high expectations in 2005 based on the relative youth of the core. By 2006 however, people started taking a bath on unused tickets. They sold out early, on higher expectations, but butts in the seats was clearly lower. And they would have stayed lower in 2007 had it not been for huge offseason investment.

 

Explain the '87 - '93 flap then.

 

Should 15-20 year old attendance figures really be used to classify the current fanbase's mentality?

 

I'm saying no such thing. I've already said current Cub fans are expecting more, and showing a renewed willingness to express their displeasure.

 

But I think based on the numbers you could say this trend started much earlier than last year.

[J.R.]

First year for 2 million was '84.

 

Wrigley attendance:

 

2006	3,123,215
2005	3,100,262
2004	3,170,154
2003	2,962,630
2002	2,693,096
2001	2,779,465
2000	2,789,511
1999	2,813,854
1998	2,623,194
1997	2,190,308
1996	2,219,110
1995	1,918,265
1994	1,845,208
1993	2,653,763
1992	2,126,720
1991	2,314,250
1990	2,243,791
1989	2,491,942
1988	2,089,034
1987	2,035,130
1986	1,859,102
1985	2,161,534
1984	2,107,655

 

The argument for years was that Wrigley was a tough weekend ticket no matter the record, and that yearly attendance figures would be at least decent no matter how crappy the team got. That's largely held true.

[Banedon]

John McDonough on last year's attendance:

 

Last year you sensed frustration, and possibly even in some instances a feeling of hopelessness. … I saw some frightening sights at times when I would go into the ballpark and you might see 14,000 or 15,000 people there."

 

They may have sold out, but there wasn't that many bodies in the seats.

[Soriano12]

can we talk more about Grace sharting himself.

 

:lol:

 

Woody's in trouble when they hang out tonight.

 

For real....Grace really [expletive] himself on the field?

 

LOL.

[minnesotacubsfan]

can we talk more about Grace sharting himself.

 

:lol:

 

Woody's in trouble when they hang out tonight.

 

For real....Grace really [expletive] himself on the field?

 

LOL.

 

lol I wanna hear more

 

I miss Grace. He was my fav back int he day..even more then sandberg (who was a very close #2)

[Amazing_Grace]

Wood tells a funny story about Grace sharting his pants at 1B and then having to lead off the next inning.

 

When you're sliding into home and your pants are full of foam....

[Soul]

John McDonough on last year's attendance:

 

Last year you sensed frustration, and possibly even in some instances a feeling of hopelessness. … I saw some frightening sights at times when I would go into the ballpark and you might see 14,000 or 15,000 people there."

 

They may have sold out, but there wasn't that many bodies in the seats.

 

That's right. Fans finally pulled the plug on this thing. Then suddenly the Cubs are signing the top FA in the market -- for the first time that I can remember -- then they're outspending everyone in baseball, even the Yanks and Bo Sox.

 

Looks like a pretty direct cause/effect situation to me.

[tgk]

can we talk more about Grace sharting himself.

 

:lol:

 

Woody's in trouble when they hang out tonight.

 

For real....Grace really [expletive] himself on the field?

 

LOL.

 

I was painting my mom's utility room and heard the whole show. Even the part where a Cardinal fan called in to complain the they talked to Wood and not Carpenter or Wainwright. Patrick diplomatically said that they were at the Cub's camp. I would have had to point out the fact that the Cards train in Florida, but DP restained himself.

 

Basically, Wood said the Grace was trying to pass gas and got a little more than he bargained for. Even went so far as to say it was "running down his leg." There's a lovely mental image.Then he had to lead off the next inning so he basically played 1.5 innings before he could get to the club house.

 

They played the interview for Grace when they had him on later and he laughed and confirmed the story. Patrick asked Grace for a story on Wood and Grace said one time Wood was crusing on the mound, then went into one of his famous stretches where he couldn't find the plate one inning. Grace said he went to the mound and told Wood, "Do you see those two girls I left passes for over behind the dugout? The sooner you get these guys out we can go take care of business with them." Wood proceed to strike the guy out one and crusied throught the rest of the game.

 

He also told one about Maddux.

 

Said Maddux was on the mound one time and grabbed his groin after throwing a pitch. He went to check on him and Maddux said "Gracie, stand in front of me." Grace asks if Maddux is allright and then he realizes that Maddux's problem is that he is experiencing a hightened state of arousal. Grace says, "Man, you must really love to pitch."

[SouthSideRyan]

Talked a lot about changing the culture of the Cubs. Really wants to change the attitude. Said that the fans are great for supporting the team win or lose, but that can cause some players to be complacent. Has to make sure that players take it on themselves to win.

 

Excuse my lack of modesty, but I've been trying to make this case for years. Finally someone of stature lets it slip: unwavering fan support even in the face of utter failure can have a negative impact.

 

If the Cubs had good players that played poorly, maybe that would make sense. But the Cubs have sucked because their personel decisions have sucked, not because overly supportive fans brought about complacency.

 

Why bother making great personnel decisions when it doesn't really matter?

 

Why bother making intentionally bad personnel decisions when it doesn't really matter?

[SouthSideRyan]

Ahhh Mark Grace love and fan support are the reasons we've sucked all in one thread. Can we add talk about Barrett's defense being a serious problem and maybe some freaking out about Zambrano's contract.

 

Cause then it would definitely be my favoritest thread ever.

[shnsajax]

can we talk more about Grace sharting himself.

 

:lol:

 

Woody's in trouble when they hang out tonight.

 

For real....Grace really [expletive] himself on the field?

 

LOL.

 

I was painting my mom's utility room and heard the whole show. Even the part where a Cardinal fan called in to complain the they talked to Wood and not Carpenter or Wainwright. Patrick diplomatically said that they were at the Cub's camp. I would have had to point out the fact that the Cards train in Florida, but DP restained himself.

 

Basically, Wood said the Grace was trying to pass gas and got a little more than he bargained for. Even went so far as to say it was "running down his leg." There's a lovely mental image.Then he had to lead off the next inning so he basically played 1.5 innings before he could get to the club house.

 

They played the interview for Grace when they had him on later and he laughed and confirmed the story. Patrick asked Grace for a story on Wood and Grace said one time Wood was crusing on the mound, then went into one of his famous stretches where he couldn't find the plate one inning. Grace said he went to the mound and told Wood, "Do you see those two girls I left passes for over behind the dugout? The sooner you get these guys out we can go take care of business with them." Wood proceed to strike the guy out one and crusied throught the rest of the game.

 

He also told one about Maddux.

 

Said Maddux was on the mound one time and grabbed his groin after throwing a pitch. He went to check on him and Maddux said "Gracie, stand in front of me." Grace asks if Maddux is allright and then he realizes that Maddux's problem is that he is experiencing a hightened state of arousal. Grace says, "Man, you must really love to pitch."

 

Seriously I would love to see Grace at a bar one night just to hear him drunk and tell some of his stories.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Barrett needs to be a DH, and we need to trade Zambrano because he's going to cost way too much and get hurt.

 

How's that SSR?

[cbbryan]

Barrett needs to be a DH, and we need to trade Zambrano because he's going to cost way too much and get hurt.

 

How's that SSR?

 

And besides that, we have MARQUIS now! Man, can he swing a bat! LOL!

 

Should we pile on some more, SSR?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ahhh Mark Grace love and fan support are the reasons we've sucked all in one thread. Can we add talk about Barrett's defense being a serious problem and maybe some freaking out about Zambrano's contract.

 

Cause then it would definitely be my favoritest thread ever.

 

At least we aren't complaining about RumDum anymore, am I right?