Rampant Speculation re: Prior Thread (Legit info welcome)

[Soul]

Though I'm not panicing over Prior, I don't see any way he would be better by opening day than Guzman.

 

Guzman should be the #5 out of ST, IMO.

[Soul]

I heard Dan Plesac comment during the game that he remembered early in his career watching Bob Welch pitch in ST. Said Welch was awful to a point that Plesac almost felt sorry for him. Plesac went on to say that Welch ended up winning 20+ games that year. I know, I know, wins aren't a good barometer of how good a pitcher pitches. But I doubt he sucked that much during the year and still won 20.

 

ST is for players to work on things. None of the stats really matter. Too often, the hot hitters in spring take a big crap once the games matter and vice versa. Same can be said of pitchers. Hopefully Prior is "working on things" and when the games count, he'll put it together.

 

Yes, he's working on his arm strength and stamina. Right now he's throwing a fastball and a curve, just trying to locate and be consistent.

 

There's just no way he'll be a better option than Guzman in 3 weeks.

[hawkcub]

I heard Dan Plesac comment during the game that he remembered early in his career watching Bob Welch pitch in ST. Said Welch was awful to a point that Plesac almost felt sorry for him. Plesac went on to say that Welch ended up winning 20+ games that year. I know, I know, wins aren't a good barometer of how good a pitcher pitches. But I doubt he sucked that much during the year and still won 20.

 

ST is for players to work on things. None of the stats really matter. Too often, the hot hitters in spring take a big crap once the games matter and vice versa. Same can be said of pitchers. Hopefully Prior is "working on things" and when the games count, he'll put it together.

 

Yes, he's working on his arm strength and stamina. Right now he's throwing a fastball and a curve, just trying to locate and be consistent.

 

There's just no way he'll be a better option than Guzman in 3 weeks.

 

I still think it's to early to say Guzman is the better option in 3 weeks. If it gets to be March 20th and the difference in Guzman and Prior are the same then I say AG is the man. I just think we need to wait two weeks before that decision is made.

[Soul]

I heard Dan Plesac comment during the game that he remembered early in his career watching Bob Welch pitch in ST. Said Welch was awful to a point that Plesac almost felt sorry for him. Plesac went on to say that Welch ended up winning 20+ games that year. I know, I know, wins aren't a good barometer of how good a pitcher pitches. But I doubt he sucked that much during the year and still won 20.

 

ST is for players to work on things. None of the stats really matter. Too often, the hot hitters in spring take a big crap once the games matter and vice versa. Same can be said of pitchers. Hopefully Prior is "working on things" and when the games count, he'll put it together.

 

Yes, he's working on his arm strength and stamina. Right now he's throwing a fastball and a curve, just trying to locate and be consistent.

 

There's just no way he'll be a better option than Guzman in 3 weeks.

 

I still think it's to early to say Guzman is the better option in 3 weeks. If it gets to be March 20th and the difference in Guzman and Prior are the same then I say AG is the man. I just think we need to wait two weeks before that decision is made.

 

I'm not saying Lou should announce a decision. I'm just voicing doubts that Prior will be able to make up that much of a gap. Guzman looks to be seriously gearing up. All that remains with this kid is his mind. The stuff's there.

[Jazz]

Here's a hypothetical.

Say prior is very medicore-to average this year.

or worse.

if he gets injured, but shows flashes of brilliances.

 

After this year, if I'm correct, it will be his 6th year on the ML roster, and he will be able to test free agency. What kind of contract would he demand, and would you let him go, if say you could find in house solutions to replace him.

 

The thing with prior is that his 2003 season was the best pitching single season the cubs have had in a long time, especially that second half. He is, however, 3 years removed from that season, and it is time for him to now prove he is that pitcher. I just don't like getting hung up on what he could be, and we end up throwing a contract just to keep him when he hasn't proved himself.

[NCCubFan]

After this year, if I'm correct, it will be his 6th year on the ML roster, and he will be able to test free agency.

Actually he's not a free agent until after 2008. He didn't have enough service time in 2002 to count, so he'll have five years (2003 through 2007) after this year.

[PackLandVA]

I apoligize for not reading all 14 pages of this thread. Hopefully this hasn't been addressed already. But if Prior is not good enough/ready to be in the rotation, what do the Cubs do with him? Does he go to the pen? Can he be sent to the minors if he's healthy? Can they say he's on the mental Dl and therefore needs rehab?

 

What are the Cubs options while still keeping him a Cub?

[Sammy Sofa]

Here's a hypothetical.

Say prior is very medicore-to average this year.

or worse.

if he gets injured, but shows flashes of brilliances.

 

After this year, if I'm correct, it will be his 6th year on the ML roster, and he will be able to test free agency. What kind of contract would he demand, and would you let him go, if say you could find in house solutions to replace him.

 

The thing with prior is that his 2003 season was the best pitching single season the cubs have had in a long time, especially that second half. He is, however, 3 years removed from that season, and it is time for him to now prove he is that pitcher. I just don't like getting hung up on what he could be, and we end up throwing a contract just to keep him when he hasn't proved himself.

 

It's not fair to judge him only on 2003 since he was very good in 2004 and 2005 as well.

[98navigator]

Prior's thought's on his outing today:

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity..." "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

"For me, it's about getting in shape and about my mechanics" "If I don't line things up right, I lose two or three [mph], and I saw that today."

 

"I'm just worried about playing, and worried about trying to make myself better" "If I make myself better and I'm pitching the way I can, then I help the ballclub. Right now, I'm worried about getting better myself. What I did the last two outings is not the way I want to pitch, no. I'm better than that."

 

"I'm throwing 100 percent..." "I'm not blessed with the genetics to throw at 94 [mph] for no reason. I've got to get everything lined up to get to that point, and obviously, get in shape. I'm a little ways from that. That's why there's Spring Training."

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

[Guest]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

Vance, I vehemently disagree.

[David]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

Vance, I vehemently disagree.

 

I concur, although, I have to admit, I am a little less worried about Prior because of Gooz's encouraging spring.

Edited March 11, 2007 by David

[texascub]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

Vance, I vehemently disagree.

 

I don't think that Prior is irrelevant and expendable, but if Guzman flat out performs better then I think that he should get the spot. If Prior continues the way that he's going, I think he needs to be put on the 15-day DL and stay behind in extended ST to continue to work on his stuff. After he gets more comfortable and starts stretching it out down there, he should go on a rehab assignment for 2-3 starts split between AA and AAA to make sure he's sharp when he makes his debut. I'd aim for him to return around May 4th when the Cubs open up a 6-game homestand against the Nats and Pirates.

[98navigator]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

I think he's relevant even in his ineffectiveness because of his past production and potential to improve. However, I agree that if winning is the objective, the Cubs can't get caught up in just focusing on him... If he isn't ready to go, I can see him being sent on rehab and pushed into the background until he is ML ready (or demoted if he doesn't accept rehab for some strange reason).

[Soul]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

Vance, I vehemently disagree.

 

I don't think he's expendable. Marquis is likely going to blow up this season. Those 5 starters: Z,Lilly,Marquis,Hill,Guzman -- will not put in an entire season of great pitching.

 

I just don't see any way Prior will be as good a pitcher as Guzman is right now in 3 more weeks. That flies in the face of logic & reason. Guzman's stuff is looking very good right now, and he's still getting ready, improving even more. Prior is basically doing pitching calisthenics on the mound.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

Bingo! Although I don't think we could get much for him at this point.

[Amazing_Grace]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

Expendable perhaps, but not irrelevant. If he were pitching well, he'd be a great trade commodity at midseason. I personally hope both Guzman and Prior put Marquis in the pen, and then off the team via a midseason trade.

[98navigator]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

Vance, I vehemently disagree.

 

I don't think that Prior is irrelevant and expendable, but if Guzman flat out performs better then I think that he should get the spot. If Prior continues the way that he's going, I think he needs to be put on the 15-day DL and stay behind in extended ST to continue to work on his stuff. After he gets more comfortable and starts stretching it out down there, he should go on a rehab assignment for 2-3 starts split between AA and AAA to make sure he's sharp when he makes his debut. I'd aim for him to return around May 4th when the Cubs open up a 6-game homestand against the Nats and Pirates.

 

I don't think the Cubs are going to play that game this year. I think this could be a pivotal time in Mark Prior's Cubs career. He can be replaced if someone can not only win the fifth spot but show flashes of dominance. Guzman has the ability to do so. It's all hypothetical at this point but if Guzman wins the spot and goes on to win his first few starts leading up to a potential Prior return, I could see it being a very difficult situation...

 

Listening to the off-the-record comments by Lou, it's apparent that Angel Guzman fits his profile of his ideal 5th starter; a young guy who throws well with the ability to get better as the season progresses.

 

Having said that, I'm sure Lou would love to have the old Mark Prior but it doesn't look like he'll be around for awhile (if ever).

[Soul]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

Expendable perhaps, but not irrelevant. If he were pitching well, he'd be a great trade commodity at midseason. I personally hope both Guzman and Prior put Marquis in the pen, and then off the team via a midseason trade.

 

This would be the scenario I envision as well, assuming Prior continues to make progress and Marquis does what he usually does...

 

I would certainly hate to see Guzman get traded just because Marquis is making the money.

[wolf stansson]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

Bingo! Although I don't think we could get much for him at this point.

Can I interest you in Braden Looper?

[98navigator]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

Bingo! Although I don't think we could get much for him at this point.

Can I interest you in Braden Looper?

 

Haha, no thanks :D

[Guest]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

 

Bingo! Although I don't think we could get much for him at this point.

Can I interest you in Braden Looper?

For Tomas Perez? Sure!

 

I'd love to see what we could spin him to Cincy for. :D

[texascub]

If Guzman continues to throw as he did today, Prior is irrelevant and expendable.

Vance, I vehemently disagree.

 

I don't think that Prior is irrelevant and expendable, but if Guzman flat out performs better then I think that he should get the spot. If Prior continues the way that he's going, I think he needs to be put on the 15-day DL and stay behind in extended ST to continue to work on his stuff. After he gets more comfortable and starts stretching it out down there, he should go on a rehab assignment for 2-3 starts split between AA and AAA to make sure he's sharp when he makes his debut. I'd aim for him to return around May 4th when the Cubs open up a 6-game homestand against the Nats and Pirates.

 

I don't think the Cubs are going to play that game this year. I think this could be a pivotal time in Mark Prior's Cubs career. He can be replaced if someone can not only win the fifth spot but show flashes of dominance. Guzman has the ability to do so. It's all hypothetical at this point but if Guzman wins the spot and goes on to win his first few starts leading up to a potential Prior return, I could see it being a very difficult situation...

 

Listening to the off-the-record comments by Lou, it's apparent that Angel Guzman fits his profile of his ideal 5th starter; a young guy who throws well with the ability to get better as the season progresses.

 

Having said that, I'm sure Lou would love to have the old Mark Prior but it doesn't look like he'll be around for awhile (if ever).

 

They may not, but IMO they would be foolish not to. He missed a good portion of last year with shoulder problems and hadn't thrown since August I don't believe. Right now I think as he gets his stamina and strength up, his velocity will improve. It is all a matter of fine tuning his mechanics and finding that consistent arm slot. If he can't do that by the end of ST, I don't want him to still be fooling around with it in Wrigley.

[oldstyle81]

while Guzman may be having a great spring, it means nothing untill he can do it when it really counts. maybe he will flip the switch like Hill did last season but untill then, Prior would be my choice untill he proves he cant do it

[Careless]

Prior's thought's on his outing today:

 

"I'm not worried about the velocity..." "It'll come. It's not something you lose."

 

"For me, it's about getting in shape and about my mechanics" "If I don't line things up right, I lose two or three [mph], and I saw that today."

 

"I'm just worried about playing, and worried about trying to make myself better" "If I make myself better and I'm pitching the way I can, then I help the ballclub. Right now, I'm worried about getting better myself. What I did the last two outings is not the way I want to pitch, no. I'm better than that."

 

"I'm throwing 100 percent..." "I'm not blessed with the genetics to throw at 94 [mph] for no reason. I've got to get everything lined up to get to that point, and obviously, get in shape. I'm a little ways from that. That's why there's Spring Training."

Bad mechanics lose him 2-3 mph? really?