Santo Doesn't Make the HOF by 5 Votes

vance_the_cubs_fan · February 27, 2007

If you'd like some facts to go with your letters, emails, and phone calls- here are some.

Right now the HOF lists 13 players that have been inducted primarily as 3B. Three of those were inducted from the Negro Leagues.

If Santo were added to the other ten, there would be eleven third basemen in the HOF. So, how would he rank among these other greats? In other words, I wanted to answer the question if Santo would lower the quality of player in the HOF.

Here's what I came up with.

Santo's 342 homeruns would rank him third among HOF thirdbasemen behind only 500 HR club members Mike Schmidt and Eddie Matthews.

Santo's 1331 RBI would rank him fourth among the current HOF third sackers.

His .277 BA might be one of the knocks on him as six of the ten HOF third basemen have hit over 300. However, there still would be four HOF thirdbasemen with lower batting averages.

Santo has five Gold Gloves. Only two HOF thirdbasemen (Schmidt and Robinson) have more, and six have none.

Santo's 954 Fielding % ranks him at sixth would be middle of the pack.

Santo scored 1138 runs which places him in the middle of the pack at fifth.

His 362 OBP would rank him sixth and his 464 SLG would rank him fourth.

Finally, his OPS+ of 125 would rank him fifth.

There's not a single category that would rank him in the lower third. Most metrics place him squarely in the middle of the pack among HOF thirdbasemen.

I don't think there should be a doubt he belongs.

Handlebar McSkullet · February 27, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

vance_the_cubs_fan · February 27, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Mizzou · February 27, 2007

In an effort to avoid reading 11 pages, can anyone tell me who did make it (if anyone)?

Dirt Dog Sparly · February 27, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Add to that the fact that Santo did this with Diabetes. He might have been right there with Schmidt if he hadnt had to battle that too.

Mark_R · February 27, 2007

In an effort to avoid reading 11 pages, can anyone tell me who did make it (if anyone)?

Nobody made it. Are you allergic to espn.com?

BRASKYS SCOTCH · February 27, 2007

In an effort to avoid reading 11 pages, can anyone tell me who did make it (if anyone)?

None. Same results as the last 2 times since vets' committee's inception.

Handlebar McSkullet · February 27, 2007

If I could give Bruce Levine a hug I would!!!!!!!!! I am saving that!!!!! Amazing... I HATE JOE MORGAN!!!! Also Tim Kurkjan is a hero for the day as well. Edited February 27, 2007 by Handlebar McSkullet

vance_the_cubs_fan · February 27, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Add to that the fact that Santo did this with Diabetes. He might have been right there with Schmidt if he hadnt had to battle that too.

While that may be true, I don't think that really should be accounted for. Many players have physical ailments or injuries or what not that affect them. While I think that is a testament to his strength and courage and surely makes him an admirable person, I prefer the HOF to be based on what they accomplished on its on merits. That being said, Santo belongs based on those things alone.

BRASKYS SCOTCH · February 27, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Add to that the fact that Santo did this with Diabetes. He might have been right there with Schmidt if he hadnt had to battle that too.

While that may be true, I don't think that really should be accounted for. Many players have physical ailments or injuries or what not that affect them. While I think that is a testament to his strength and courage and surely makes him an admirable person, I prefer the HOF to be based on what they accomplished on its on merits. That being said, Santo belongs based on those things alone.

If there is one thing to consider with Santo's diabetes it is his record as NL 3B Leader in consecutive games (364) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Santo

If you really want to read the statistics, check out this Bill James piece on why Santo should be in the Hall. It's absolutely maddening that he is not in by now.

http://

http://mvn.com/mlb-cubs/2007/01/16/why-ron-santo-belongs-in-the-hall-of-fame-part-1/[/url]

Dirt Dog Sparly · February 28, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Add to that the fact that Santo did this with Diabetes. He might have been right there with Schmidt if he hadnt had to battle that too.

While that may be true, I don't think that really should be accounted for. Many players have physical ailments or injuries or what not that affect them. While I think that is a testament to his strength and courage and surely makes him an admirable person, I prefer the HOF to be based on what they accomplished on its on merits. That being said, Santo belongs based on those things alone.

I agree with you that he belongs on his numbers as they currently stand. What I am saying is that with his body not recovering like someones without Diabetes, his accomplishments stand out even more so.

RichHillIsABeast · February 28, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Add to that the fact that Santo did this with Diabetes. He might have been right there with Schmidt if he hadnt had to battle that too.

Morgan wants to know why you're making excuses. If Santo deserved to be in there, the intellectual giants who comprise the VC would have put him in the Hall already. :roll:

Soul · February 28, 2007

this is about new york still hating ronny. freaking trash.

Dirt Dog Sparly · February 28, 2007

Can someone give me an actual quote on what Bill James said about Santo. I think it was something like he is statistically the third greatest 3rd baseman in history or something like that.

Well, I don't think Santo is the greatest. Schmidt has that title by a long way. But, I could easily place Santo in the top five and maybe top four. Top three seems like a stretch.

Based on the numbers, I'd probably go Schmidt, Brett, Matthews, Boggs, and then Santo.

Some might argue that Robinson's defense places him right above Santo.

Add to that the fact that Santo did this with Diabetes. He might have been right there with Schmidt if he hadnt had to battle that too.

Morgan wants to know why you're making excuses. If Santo deserved to be in there, the intellectual giants who comprise the VC would have put him in the Hall already. :roll:

Joe Morgan can kiss my lilly white and hairy backside. :evil:

DonnieD · February 28, 2007

Yeah, mediocre like Santo, Rice, Hodges, Wills, Kaat as opposed to players like Mazeroski and Ozzie Smith. Some of the names mentioned in these posts could be enough for the veterans committee to put in 2 per year for the next 3 or 4 years.

You can't honestly think Maury Wills is more deserving of a Hall of Fame induction than Ozzie Smith, can you?

oldstyle81 · February 28, 2007

Joe Morgan is on WGN 720 right now, says he voted for him all 3 times

Derwood · February 28, 2007

Joe Morgan is on WGN 720 right now, says he voted for him all 3 times

but paid 10 others not to

Handlebar McSkullet · February 28, 2007

Joe Morgan is on WGN 720 right now, says he voted for him all 3 times

but paid 10 others not to

LOL

Good article by Wojo.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2782088[/glow]

vance_the_cubs_fan · February 28, 2007

I decided to blog on this.

Laura · February 28, 2007

I got an error when I tried to comment, so I just karma ++'d it instead.

Amazing_Grace · February 28, 2007

Blah, I wonder what problem the baseball world has with Santo? There are a lot of less deserving players in the HOF. I don't get it.

Laura · February 28, 2007

An mp3 clip of Bruce Levine asking whether the process needs to revamped during the HoF conference call. Joe Morgan gets offended.

http://espn-mp3-od.andomedia.com/stations/990/joemorgan.mp3

bhogg · February 28, 2007

I think the HOF needs to step up with some accountability.

These dipwads -- writers and former players -- owe it to the fans to give a full account of who they voted for and why.

I don't give a rat's ass about Joe Morgan and his "we're not gonna lower the standards" bull crap. Screw that. It begins and ends with the fans.

Yes, the players love the game. They play the game. However, if not for the fans, the players would just be really really really good rec players.

Without fans, the Baseball writers might be writers. . . then again, they might be garbage men. Without the fans, they have no one to read their columns.

So, in short, players and writers owe a sincere debt of gratitude to the fans. This includes accountability on the Hall of Fame. The hall is for the fans. If it were for the players, there would only be 82 bodies filing through the HOF gates this upcoming year.

I'm sick and tired of the fans getting the shaft.

Of course, in the end, I will still watch. . . . will still spend a little money. . . . and still will get tossed to the side in the end.

Balsa · February 28, 2007

I've been avoiding this topic all day because I'm so angry about it.

Everyone has to write. I don't care if it's letters, emails, faxes, whatever.

This cannot stand as is. We need to channel these emotions into a wave of pressure and make the VC feel some heat.

brinoch · February 28, 2007

I haven't looked through all 10 pages, but this is absolutely INFURIATING! :evil:

"We're being blamed because something hasn't happened," Hall member and vice chairman Joe Morgan said. "If you're asking me, 'Do we lower our standards to get more people in?' my answer would be no."

Morgan's a moron. He'd violate any known law, rule, more or standard to get his friend Concepcion (or any other Red) into the Hall.

Santo Doesn't Make the HOF by 5 Votes

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