Pie is number 17, oh no!!

[CuseCubFan69]

When I have a hard time deciding on if a player deserves to be in the Hall I ask myself if I would rather have him or another player that is close to him that played the same position on my team. If I picking between Delgado and Grace, I'm taking Degado for 1st base.

[Rob]

When I have a hard time deciding on if a player deserves to be in the Hall I ask myself if I would rather have him or another player that is close to him that played the same position on my team. If I picking between Delgado and Grace, I'm taking Degado for 1st base.

 

As would I, but in terms of everyday firstbasemen of this era, his overall value is closer to Grace's than anybody else I could think of whilst still in my drunken stupor.... though you'd have to throw out a handful of seasons where he's been amazing to buy into the comparison.

[RockTheIvy]

The Cubs gave Pie a big boy number this year, the problem is it is 17!!! Mark Grace's old number. And while im not saying it should be retired, I feel like it is a cursed number. I remember the last prized prospect who wore 17, Bobby Hill, and he didnt work out that well.

 

I guess Pie has a few fat chicks coming his way?

[cubfever7]

What is the definition of Hall of Fame?

 

If Gary Carter (.262/.335/.439) and Bill Mazeroski (.260/.299/.367) are HOFers, then Mark Grace (.303/.383/.442), compare to those numbers, would be a LOCK for the HOF. And yes, I am in favor of stripping Mazeroski of his HOF title, seeing as HE ISN'T A HOFer. And yes, I don't think Grace is a HOF, but if you used the measuring stick to allow Mazeroski and Carter in, then Grace is a HOF.

 

With that said, if baseball wants to continue to induct not even average players in the Hall, then they need to create a special group that belongs ONLY to the elite of the HOF, ie Aaron/Ruth/Gehrig/Gibson, etc,etc. Cause there is no way Bill Mazeroski/Gary Carter are the same caliber HOFer as Ruth/Aaron/Cobb/Gehrig, etc, etc.

 

 

I firmly believe Ron Santo's case for the HOF to be very strong and if one goes strictly by how a player dominated a particular decade, Grace's case at least bares a real hard look.

 

We all know he had more hits than any other player in the 90's while winning four gold gloves and making three all star teams. He was one of the 5 toughest to strikeout 11 times, but also was 2nd in the league in outs once and first in hitting into dp's. He never finished higher than 13th (1995) in MVP voting and that was the only year he broke the top 10 in slugging. The lack of long ball is what really hurts him and probably always will.

 

Mazeroski was ML player of the year in 1960, had 8 gold gloves and 7 all star teams...but has only 1957 as a year to break top 20 in MVP voting. From what I can recall reading, Maz was well liked by all and was similar to Grace insofar as being tough to strikeout.

 

Ron Santo: 9 all star games--5 gold gloves--was top 10 in MVP votes four times, with 5 times in the top 10 in slugging including 2nd in 1964--one of 2 season where he was probably league MVP if modern metrics are applied. He led the league in OBP twice..triples once , walks 4 x's, sac. flies 3 x's and to be fair, the dubious GIDP twice. He still holds fielding records at third to my knowledge for chances accepted and either assists or putouts in a season.

 

Maz however hit one of the only walk off WS homers and Santo never saw a post season pitch and was not well liked whatsoever in the Northeast. To me, the post season absence and disdain for the Mets and their writers is what has killed him and what has elevated Maz.

[Andy]

Holy Avatars Batman!

[Derwood]

Ron Santo: 9 all star games--5 gold gloves--was top 10 in MVP votes four times, with 5 times in the top 10 in slugging including 2nd in 1964--one of 2 season where he was probably league MVP if modern metrics are applied. He led the league in OBP twice..triples once , walks 4 x's, sac. flies 3 x's and to be fair, the dubious GIDP twice. He still holds fielding records at third to my knowledge for chances accepted and either assists or putouts in a season.

 

I edited out all the things that should be considered for HoF induction.