Freddy Garcia to Phillies for Gavin Floyd.

[Balsa]

This is just....strange. If another trade doesn't spawn from this, Kenny will have a lot of explaining to do this summer.

[Backtobanks]

This is just....strange. If another trade doesn't spawn from this, Kenny will have a lot of explaining to do this summer.

 

This was 24 hours after KW said he might not trade any starters and McCarthy might start in AAA. I wrote then that he was full of it. I agree that unless the Sox have another trade lined up, this was a stupid trade. In this market, Garcia was a valuable commodity. I would like to know what happened to the Crede/Garcia for Figgins/Santana trade rumor. That would have been a great trade for both teams. The Sox would have had a proven 23 year-old starter plus the speedy CF they need. With that trade they would have filled two holes while the trade they made possibly helps in the future. One poster wrote that the Sox can afford to wait for young pitching, but I don't believe that. Dye will be leaving, Thome is old and injury prone, and AJ and Konerko might regress.

[Magnetic Curses]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

[LuckyPup]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

[CaliforniaRaisin]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

 

You're interested in Garcia despite the drop in velocity? I'd pass.

[abuck1220]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

[goonys evil twin]

From DJ Gallo on ESPN Page 2:

 

10:11 p.m.

Phillies general manager Pat Gillick just consummated a deal with Ken Williams of the White Sox that will send Freddy Garcia to Philadelphia in exchange for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez. Word is that a video of them consummating it already has been leaked onto the Internet.

[LuckyPup]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

i was just making the statement that as far as organizations go, KW would have asked for Hill for Garcia just as he asked for Floyd- I just dont know why everyone feels we can get players via trade without giving up value-

[sweetpeteman]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

i was just making the statement that as far as organizations go, KW would have asked for Hill for Garcia just as he asked for Floyd- I just dont know why everyone feels we can get players via trade without giving up value-

 

The Garciaparra and ARam trades from a few years back spoiled everyone. The Hundley/Karros, Grudz deal started it.

[CoolHandLuke]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

i was just making the statement that as far as organizations go, KW would have asked for Hill for Garcia just as he asked for Floyd- I just dont know why everyone feels we can get players via trade without giving up value-

 

Floyd doesn't have much value. look up his numbers.

[Derwood]

what makes anyone think that KW would trade Garland or Garcia to the Cubs?

[LuckyPup]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

i was just making the statement that as far as organizations go, KW would have asked for Hill for Garcia just as he asked for Floyd- I just dont know why everyone feels we can get players via trade without giving up value-

 

Floyd doesn't have much value. look up his numbers.

young, cheap lefty under club control for a while with alot of upside.......yeah, no value there- not trying to argue but the same description could be made of Hill- I just am constantly amazed at the over-valueing done by Cub fans concerning prospects and unproven commodities such as Hill- yes, Hill looked good for 5 starts at the end of a "play it out" year- i'm not going to annoint him a #2 and untouchable as many here have and even Hendry.

 

Would you do a Hill+Jones for Hudson?

[CoolHandLuke]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

i was just making the statement that as far as organizations go, KW would have asked for Hill for Garcia just as he asked for Floyd- I just dont know why everyone feels we can get players via trade without giving up value-

 

Floyd doesn't have much value. look up his numbers.

young, cheap lefty under club control for a while with alot of upside.......yeah, no value there- not trying to argue but the same description could be made of Hill- I just am constantly amazed at the over-valueing done by Cub fans concerning prospects and unproven commodities such as Hill- yes, Hill looked good for 5 starts at the end of a "play it out" year- i'm not going to annoint him a #2 and untouchable as many here have and even Hendry.

 

Would you do a Hill+Jones for Hudson?

 

Floyd is apparantly out of options, meaning he must stick on the 25 man roster. The only problem is he has pitched like crap wherever he has been the past two years. Compare Hill's and Floyds numbers side by side the last two years (both have bounced between AAA and the majors) and seriously tell me they have similar value. I am so sick of people still thinking of floyd as the highly rates prospect from several years ago.

 

EDIT -btw, floyd is a rhp.

Edited December 7, 2006 by CoolHandLuke

[Soul]

Wait until Floyd starts getting his stuff together. People are going to be complaining that Kenny saw this coming when Hendry should have.

[abuck1220]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

hill is better than both floyd and gio...and he's better than the two of them combined.

i was just making the statement that as far as organizations go, KW would have asked for Hill for Garcia just as he asked for Floyd- I just dont know why everyone feels we can get players via trade without giving up value-

 

Floyd doesn't have much value. look up his numbers.

young, cheap lefty under club control for a while with alot of upside.......yeah, no value there- not trying to argue but the same description could be made of Hill- I just am constantly amazed at the over-valueing done by Cub fans concerning prospects and unproven commodities such as Hill- yes, Hill looked good for 5 starts at the end of a "play it out" year- i'm not going to annoint him a #2 and untouchable as many here have and even Hendry.

 

Would you do a Hill+Jones for Hudson?

 

no way in hell. more than one source has projected hill to out-perform hudson in 2007. and that's not even considering cost, control, the fact that you're including another player, etc.

 

downplay hill's 2nd half all you want, but the fact remains he was one of the best pitchers in baseball during the second half (by the way, it was much more than 5 starts). floyd hasn't sniffed the big league success that hill has had. same can be said for his AAA numbers.

[CoolHandLuke]

I just calculated the aggregate numbers of Hill and Floyd over the last two years:

 

Floyd

era: 5.97

whip: 1.57

(includes time spent in AAA(252.3ip) and the majors(80.3ip))

 

Hill

era: 3.51

whip: 1.08

A(8ip), AA(57.5ip), AAA(165ip) and the majors(123ip)

 

Hill has some upside too, and he has actually shown it for a prolonged period of time at the highest level.

 

Anyways my main point has nothing to do with hill. It's that Floyd is not a good prospect anymore. If you really want to compare him to a similar Cub prospect, then compare him to Bobby Brownlie.

[Balsa]

I just calculated the aggregate numbers of Hill and Floyd over the last two years:

 

Floyd

era: 5.97

whip: 1.57

(includes time spent in AAA(252.3ip) and the majors(80.3ip))

 

Hill

era: 3.51

whip: 1.08

A(8ip), AA(57.5ip), AAA(165ip) and the majors(123ip)

 

Hill has some upside too, and he has actually shown it for a prolonged period of time at the highest level.

 

Anyways my main point has nothing to do with hill. It's that Floyd is not a good prospect anymore. If you really want to compare him to a similar Cub prospect, then compare him to Bobby Brownlie.

Ouch....BURN

[Magnetic Curses]

you gotta be kidding me. hendry throws a clot looking for pitching and he never even sniffed in garcia's direction. it made sense for us, but obviously not enough to even feign interest for hendry.

 

what a load of garbage. any bets on the next pitcher of considerably lesser caliber than garcia to make as much or more?

would you have done Hill for Garcia because thats basically what the Phils did-

 

no they didn't. i bet a deal involving jones and marmol would have gotten it done.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I just calculated the aggregate numbers of Hill and Floyd over the last two years:

 

Floyd

era: 5.97

whip: 1.57

(includes time spent in AAA(252.3ip) and the majors(80.3ip))

 

Hill

era: 3.51

whip: 1.08

A(8ip), AA(57.5ip), AAA(165ip) and the majors(123ip)

 

Hill has some upside too, and he has actually shown it for a prolonged period of time at the highest level.

 

Anyways my main point has nothing to do with hill. It's that Floyd is not a good prospect anymore. If you really want to compare him to a similar Cub prospect, then compare him to Bobby Brownlie.

Ouch....BURN

 

Kelso, is that you?

[CoolHandLuke]

I just calculated the aggregate numbers of Hill and Floyd over the last two years:

 

Floyd

era: 5.97

whip: 1.57

(includes time spent in AAA(252.3ip) and the majors(80.3ip))

 

Hill

era: 3.51

whip: 1.08

A(8ip), AA(57.5ip), AAA(165ip) and the majors(123ip)

 

Hill has some upside too, and he has actually shown it for a prolonged period of time at the highest level.

 

Anyways my main point has nothing to do with hill. It's that Floyd is not a good prospect anymore. If you really want to compare him to a similar Cub prospect, then compare him to Bobby Brownlie.

Ouch....BURN

 

Kelso, is that you?

 

thats a burn about a burn!

 

SECOND DEGREE BURN!!!!

[jjgman21]

Wait until Floyd starts getting his stuff together. People are going to be complaining that Kenny saw this coming when Hendry should have.

 

and if he doesn't we may just be talking once again about the Kenny Williams that did the Todd Ritchie deal instead of giving credit to the guy that got lucky with virtually his entire 2005 roster.

[RationalSoxFan]

Or the same guy that got Thome for Rowand, bought low on Dye, traded Loaiza for Contreras, got Uribe for Miles (success in 04), picked up Jenks off waivers, etc.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'll give credit where it's due. KW has made some pretty damn good moves over the past couple of years. Wasn't Todd Richie dealt 5 years ago? It shouldn't be difficult to believe someone can improve in their job over that span.

[jjgman21]

Or the same guy that got Thome for Rowand, bought low on Dye, traded Loaiza for Contreras, got Uribe for Miles (success in 04), picked up Jenks off waivers, etc.

 

he did a nice job last offseason. I've said it many times. "bought low" on Dye is one way to put it. "getting lucky" is another. Dye was a stop gap that turned into gold. Jacque Jones on steroids so to speak.

 

Loaiza for Contreras may seem like some huge improvement to you, but dollar for dollar is was essentially a lateral move. Uribe for Miles...I guess that says something when that is one of the moves you point to in defense of your GM. Jenks was a solid move, put still a blind dart that happened to find the dartboard. Iguchi was a nice move as well. the trade for Garcia, not bad

 

look, the guy took a team that scored 865 runs and turned them into a team that scored 741 runs. to put that into context, the 2006 Cubs scored 716 in the NL. the fact that virtually the entire pitching staff all had career years and the Sox won 8 more games than expected based on runs scored/allowed means nothing to you in evaluating the job he did, eh?

[Flames24Rulz]

Wait until Floyd starts getting his stuff together. People are going to be complaining that Kenny saw this coming when Hendry should have.

 

and if he doesn't we may just be talking once again about the Kenny Williams that did the Todd Ritchie deal instead of giving credit to the guy that got lucky with virtually his entire 2005 roster.

 

He also got David Wells for Mike Sirotka and a couple of other bums.