Cubs Shopping Jones?

[cjbucks]

I think I may need to put this in my sig before too long...

 

Jones >> Lugo >>>> Izturis

 

I'm glad someone agrees. I don't understand the infatuation with Lugo in a position that he's played a total of 1 time in his Major League career, especially when it's more vital that we upgrade at SS than it is in OF.

 

I agree, Jones has at least played 159 games in CF. Not to mention the fact that Jones had a better year than Lugo last year.

[Soul]

I think I may need to put this in my sig before too long...

 

Jones >> Lugo >>>> Izturis

 

I'm glad someone agrees. I don't understand the infatuation with Lugo in a position that he's played a total of 1 time in his Major League career, especially when it's more vital that we upgrade at SS than it is in OF.

 

Doesn't everyone agree with that? Well everyone except for Hendry?

 

Yeah. IMHO, Lugo in CF is a disaster. Lugo in CF + Izzy/DeRosa middle infield? That's just terrible. No way for playoff contention with that. At least Jacque would bring some outfield experience and some decent power.

[Wheelimus]

Well, it's not his fault. It is absolutely stupid to have a pool of players that is Julio Lugo, Cesar Izturis, and Jacque Jones, and getting to choose two of those EVER choose Cesar Izturis.

 

If they want Lugo, put him at short, Jacque in center, and Cesar can be your horribly overpriced 25th man. Live and learn guys, don't trade future Hall Of Famers for Arthritic Pieces Of Crap.

[elinas]

Just say no to Lugo in CF

 

Lugo at SS + Jones in CF >>>>>>>>>> Izturis at SS + Lugo in CF

Agreed.

[frostwyrm]

Rotoworld:

 

 

The Cubs are reportedly trying to interest other teams in Jacque Jones, who is owed $11.67 million over the next two years.

Jones shouldn't have a lot of trade value when free agents like Trot Nixon and David Dellucci can be had for similar money. If the Cubs trade Jones, they could go after Julio Lugo or J.D. Drew to play center and shift Alfonso Soriano to right.

 

You had a chance to title a thread "Jacque on the blaque?" and you passed it up?

[tkenm356]

First post here. Hi.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6165654

 

Snippet:

 

The Pirates, who want to add a left-handed hitting slugger at right field or first base, surely would be tempted if they could acquire such a bat — the Diamondbacks' Chad Tracy, for example — for one of their starting pitchers.

 

I've been mulling a Jones to Pirates possibility ever since I read that. Jones would be a huge upgrade over Burnitz (HA!), and if they're that desperate perhaps they'd give up one of their young pitchers if we package Jones in a deal with one of our expendable ones. Perhaps Ian Snell (fingers crossed).

[CuseCubFan69]

First post here. Hi.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6165654

 

Snippet:

 

The Pirates, who want to add a left-handed hitting slugger at right field or first base, surely would be tempted if they could acquire such a bat — the Diamondbacks' Chad Tracy, for example — for one of their starting pitchers.

 

I've been mulling a Jones to Pirates possibility ever since I read that. Jones would be a huge upgrade over Burnitz (HA!), and if they're that desperate perhaps they'd give up one of their young pitchers if we package Jones in a deal with one of our expendable ones. Perhaps Ian Snell (fingers crossed).

 

Welcome to the forum! I wonder if the Pirates would trade within the division?

[tkenm356]

Well we did kind of hose them in the Ramirez trade, so it's likely they may not want to trade much with the Cubbies after that

[cheapseats]

I think I may need to put this in my sig before too long...

 

Jones >> Lugo >>>> Izturis

 

I'm glad someone agrees. I don't understand the infatuation with Lugo in a position that he's played a total of 1 time in his Major League career, especially when it's more vital that we upgrade at SS than it is in OF.

 

I agree, Jones has at least played 159 games in CF. Not to mention the fact that Jones had a better year than Lugo last year.

 

Yep. And IIRC, Jacque was a CF until he got to the majors and moved to RF for Torii Hunter.

 

I'm not a big fan of Jones, but I argued last year that he'd be more of an asset in CF than RF.

[CuseCubFan69]

Just say no to Lugo in CF

 

Lugo at SS + Jones in CF >>>>>>>>>> Izturis at SS + Lugo in CF

Agreed.

 

The only problem is that the Cubs need 2 more starters and Jones may be the best player to get one. I'd be fine with a Jones CF and Lugo at SS with Izturis, Floyd, Blanco and Theriot for the bench.

[b_wiggy_66]

First post here. Hi.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6165654

 

Snippet:

 

The Pirates, who want to add a left-handed hitting slugger at right field or first base, surely would be tempted if they could acquire such a bat — the Diamondbacks' Chad Tracy, for example — for one of their starting pitchers.

 

I've been mulling a Jones to Pirates possibility ever since I read that. Jones would be a huge upgrade over Burnitz (HA!), and if they're that desperate perhaps they'd give up one of their young pitchers if we package Jones in a deal with one of our expendable ones. Perhaps Ian Snell (fingers crossed).

 

Welcome to the forum! I wonder if the Pirates would trade within the division?

 

They should offer Jones for Snell, Duke, or Maholm see if they bite

[tkenm356]

They should offer Jones for Snell, Duke, or Maholm see if they bite

 

I agree. If they're willing to part with one of them for someone like Chad Tracy, they should be willing to part with them for Jones. If Gary Matthews can get $50MM for hitting .318-19-79-10, Jacque Jones would've gotten $80MM for .285-27-81-9

 

His $4MM he's due to make next year might look pretty attractive to a lot of clubs who missed out on one of the big FA outfielders this year.

[Danny82]

They should offer Jones for Snell, Duke, or Maholm see if they bite

 

I agree. If they're willing to part with one of them for someone like Chad Tracy, they should be willing to part with them for Jones.

 

I don't agree with your logic here AT ALL.

 

Tracy has a ton more value than Jones. A ton.

[CubColtPacer]

They should offer Jones for Snell, Duke, or Maholm see if they bite

 

I agree. If they're willing to part with one of them for someone like Chad Tracy, they should be willing to part with them for Jones.

 

I don't agree with your logic here AT ALL.

 

Tracy has a ton more value than Jones. A ton.

 

After looking at his stats again, I would have to agree. Tracy is 26 and has had one season above a .900 OPS already. His last season was a .794, which is a signficant step down but still close to Jones. His potential for improvement makes him much more valuable than Jones.

[questionmarkgrace]

Yep. And IIRC, Jacque was a CF until he got to the majors and moved to RF for Torii Hunter.

 

I'm not a big fan of Jones, but I argued last year that he'd be more of an asset in CF than RF.

 

Yeah but that was eight years ago. frank thomas was still playing first base eight years ago, you wouldn't want him there now. I think Jacque takes terrible routes to balls. And I don't think he has the legs to play cf. ANd I don't want to hear about how its easier to run in cf than anywhere else. A ball that slicesoff of a righty into left center is one of the hardest to judge as is a ball that draws to right center off of a lefty. Not to mention the fact it is not that easy to judge the height and depth of a ball hit right at a center fielder.

 

Center field should be reserved for guys with a quick first step and a keen sense for judging the ball. Jacque's defense just isn't that good anymore.

 

If he can play it his bat looks alot better there than most but I think that is a big if, which is why the cubs are looking elsewhere.

[Mizzou]

They should offer Jones for Snell, Duke, or Maholm see if they bite

 

I agree. If they're willing to part with one of them for someone like Chad Tracy, they should be willing to part with them for Jones.

 

I don't agree with your logic here AT ALL.

 

Tracy has a ton more value than Jones. A ton.

A ton? How do you figure that? They'll both make roughly the same amount of money next year, and Jones was significantly better than Tracy was last year.

[Danny82]

Tracy is 5 years younger.

 

He has a 20 point higher career OBP.

 

He has a 30 point higher career OPS.

 

He had an OPS of .911 at 25, which is about 60 points better than Jones has EVER had.

 

He can play LF, 1B, and 3B.

 

Tracy is only due 2.75M and 3.75M over the next two years, just over 1/2 of what Jones is owed.

 

I guess they are equally bad against lefties.

 

He can grow a better goatee.

 

Like I said, Tracy easily has more value than Jones.

[tkenm356]

Tracy is 5 years younger.

 

He has a 20 point higher career OBP.

 

He has a 30 point higher career OPS.

 

He had an OPS of .911 at 25, which is about 60 points better than Jones has EVER had.

 

He can play LF, 1B, and 3B.

 

Tracy is only due 2.75M and 3.75M over the next two years, just over 1/2 of what Jones is owed.

 

I guess they are equally bad against lefties.

 

He can grow a better goatee.

 

Like I said, Tracy easily has more value than Jones.

 

I agree with this, but it wouldn't hurt to see if they nibble at the bait. Are the D-Backs even shopping Tracy?

[cheapseats]

Yep. And IIRC, Jacque was a CF until he got to the majors and moved to RF for Torii Hunter.

 

I'm not a big fan of Jones, but I argued last year that he'd be more of an asset in CF than RF.

 

Yeah but that was eight years ago. frank thomas was still playing first base eight years ago, you wouldn't want him there now.

 

Eight years ago, Jacques was Frank's age. Good comparison.

 

And Jacques played 10 games in CF as recently as 2005 and was a regular as recently as 2000. I'm not sure where you got "eight years ago."

 

Your other points may or may not be valid, but making inaccurate statements and using strawman arguments makes one less likely to take them seriously.

[questionmarkgrace]

My point about frank thomas is that alot can happen in eight years. I think that most people can agree with that. Also, it will be 2007 very shortly so I'm not far off. What, seven years instead of eight? He played more in left than center in 2000: 90 games vs 63. Since then he has played exactly 14 games at center field, not exactly a vote of confidence. Am I supposed to be impressed by the fact that he played 10 games there in 05? His range for those 10 games was horrendous.

 

but making inaccurate statements and using strawman arguments

 

And Jacques played 10 games in CF as recently as 2005

 

I think you're the one grabbing at straws here.

[cheapseats]

Yeah, Frank Thomas shows what can happen in eight years when you are a 270 pound first baseman with foot injuries. Jacque doesn't have the same body type, plays a different position, doesn't have the injury history, and is seven or eight years younger. There are lots of players who have moved to and from CF in the past few years. Why not compare him to one of those?

 

Several advanced metrics show Jacques as having average to above average range.

 

As for his only having played 14 games in CF since 2000, maybe that has something to do with Torii Hunter and Juan Pierre, no?

 

Jacques would be an adequate defensive CF, and his bat would be an asset in that position.

 

Frankly, if the Cubs are going to start both Jacques and Soriano, one of them should be playing CF. If Soriano were to continue to put up his 2006 numbers, no one would have a problem with him as a corner outfielder, but that's not going to happen.

 

My point about frank thomas is that alot can happen in eight years. I think that most people can agree with that. Also, it will be 2007 very shortly so I'm not far off. What, seven years instead of eight? He played more in left than center in 2000: 90 games vs 63. Since then he has played exactly 14 games at center field, not exactly a vote of confidence. Am I supposed to be impressed by the fact that he played 10 games there in 05? His range for those 10 games was horrendous.

 

but making inaccurate statements and using strawman arguments

 

And Jacques played 10 games in CF as recently as 2005

 

I think you're the one grabbing at straws here.

[questionmarkgrace]

In 2005 Tori hunter only played 98 games but Jacque only played 10 games in center. he also posted a terrible range factor of 1.88. they needed a centerfielder, why didn't he stay there? I think that it is safe to assume that twins thought him in capable of playing center and put him back in right where he could still be an asset.

 

Ok, preston wilson do you want him in centerfield? Sure he could play there for a few games but that doesn't mean he can still handle the position full time. Or how about Darren Erstad? I wouldn't want him on my team at all and certainly not in centerfield. And both of these guys have a longer history of handling the positon than Jacque and are one year younger. Its naive to assume that he can still play there because he is a toolsy player. His range has gone down since 04, as has his fielding %, and put outs, while his errors have gone up in the same time. Not to mention those thousand hoppers he throws to the infield, he'll have more chances in center and his flaws will be glaring. He still has trade value in rightfield, or can stay here and play right but the stats point to the fact that he will be a terrible center fielder.

[Warpticon]

In 2005 Tori hunter only played 98 games but Jacque only played 10 games in center. he also posted a terrible range factor of 1.88. they needed a centerfielder, why didn't he stay there? I think that it is safe to assume that twins thought him in capable of playing center and put him back in right where he could still be an asset.

 

Just a note: Range Factor is limited in value, and it has pretty much no value at all over ten games.

[Bruno7481]

My thoughts on JOnes, not sure how popular they will be.

 

I say keep him.

 

He is a huge bargain right now, based on the money that has been thrown around this offseason. I'll take him for 5 million. He has his faults, but as of now he is the only adequate LH bat the Cubs have. I' dont think you have to have a 50/50 split between LH and RH, but it does help to have some balance.

 

A full year out of Lee, plus A-Ram and Soriano will be a huge upgrade over last year. Jones can be a very good complement for thosse guys if he puts up similar numbers to last year.

[Warpticon]

I'm all about keeping Jones if you don't upgrade offensively elsewhere.