Cubs sign Soriano

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Already brought up, taking Izturis into account it takes 9 runs away from the difference, meaning that acquiring lugo would be a two run increase over acquiring sori. Don't get hung up on the minutia, the point is that upgrading from bad to Ok is going to help your team out more than upgrading from Ok to good.

 

exactly right. theyre trying to find a random detail that makes soriano better 1 run. When in fact there's the differences in the contracts and the added flexibility lugo would have given us compared to soriano.

 

oh wait i cant assume that lugos contract will be less than sorianos according to jjgman21. Silly me.

 

I give you permission. Now incorporate Izturis's salary sitting on the bench and carry on.

 

Not with Cleveland(Westbrook, Lee) and Boston(outfielders, Crisp, Pena? Manny?) looking for a defensive SS.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

[Soul]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Minus breaking his wrist last year due to being HBP -- which can't really be attributed to being injury prone, I think -- he's been fairly healthy the last three years.

 

He played 72 games in 2005. Was that because he was on his Mormon holiday?

 

Sorry, I'm being really sarcastic. I like Drew, I really do. But the fact is, chances are better with him he won't be taking the field very often than it is with Soriano.

[E.J.]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

 

Batting average and RBI's.

 

:D

[XZero771679666304]

Already brought up, taking Izturis into account it takes 9 runs away from the difference, meaning that acquiring lugo would be a two run increase over acquiring sori. Don't get hung up on the minutia, the point is that upgrading from bad to Ok is going to help your team out more than upgrading from Ok to good.

 

exactly right. theyre trying to find a random detail that makes soriano better 1 run. When in fact there's the differences in the contracts and the added flexibility lugo would have given us compared to soriano.

 

oh wait i cant assume that lugos contract will be less than sorianos according to jjgman21. Silly me.

 

I give you permission. Now incorporate Izturis's salary sitting on the bench and carry on.

 

Not with Cleveland(Westbrook, Lee) and Boston(outfielders, Crisp, Pena? Manny?) looking for a defensive SS.

 

Do you really think Cleveland would entertain the idea of trading Cliff Lee?

[Mephistopheles]

KC, would you mind using an average of the last 3 years like you did with Pie?

 

The EqA's

.274 - Julio Lugo

.286 - Alfonso Soriano

.313 - JD Drew

.226 - Cesar Izturis

.255 - Felix Pie

 

Since we don't know who will play where and how much. 480 outs for each spot in the lineup.

 

+ 36.0 Cesar Izturis -----> Julio Lugo

+ 26.2 Felix Pie -----> Alfonso Soriano

+ 39.7 Felix Pie -----> JD Drew (122 games) + Felix Pie (40 games)

 

I give you permission. Now incorporate Izturis's salary sitting on the bench and carry on.

 

For the second time. That is MEANINGLESS. It's a sunk cost. We should completely ignore it.

[ChiCubsFan]

Already brought up, taking Izturis into account it takes 9 runs away from the difference, meaning that acquiring lugo would be a two run increase over acquiring sori. Don't get hung up on the minutia, the point is that upgrading from bad to Ok is going to help your team out more than upgrading from Ok to good.

 

exactly right. theyre trying to find a random detail that makes soriano better 1 run. When in fact there's the differences in the contracts and the added flexibility lugo would have given us compared to soriano.

 

oh wait i cant assume that lugos contract will be less than sorianos according to jjgman21. Silly me.

 

I give you permission. Now incorporate Izturis's salary sitting on the bench and carry on.

 

Not with Cleveland(Westbrook, Lee) and Boston(outfielders, Crisp, Pena? Manny?) looking for a defensive SS.

 

Izturis for any of those players. Where can I sign?

[rjchapma]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

 

Seeing the players play which Ive seen Soriano and Drew as well. Oh sorry Ive rarely seen Drew play cause hes been hurt about three quarters of his career

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Already brought up, taking Izturis into account it takes 9 runs away from the difference, meaning that acquiring lugo would be a two run increase over acquiring sori. Don't get hung up on the minutia, the point is that upgrading from bad to Ok is going to help your team out more than upgrading from Ok to good.

 

exactly right. theyre trying to find a random detail that makes soriano better 1 run. When in fact there's the differences in the contracts and the added flexibility lugo would have given us compared to soriano.

 

oh wait i cant assume that lugos contract will be less than sorianos according to jjgman21. Silly me.

 

I give you permission. Now incorporate Izturis's salary sitting on the bench and carry on.

 

Not with Cleveland(Westbrook, Lee) and Boston(outfielders, Crisp, Pena? Manny?) looking for a defensive SS.

 

Do you really think Cleveland would entertain the idea of trading Cliff Lee?

 

His name's already been tossed around quite a bit over the past week or two (outside of here as well).

[CoolHandLuke]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Minus breaking his wrist last year due to being HBP -- which can't really be attributed to being injury prone, I think -- he's been fairly healthy the last three years.

 

He played 72 games in 2005. Was that because he was on his Mormon holiday?

 

Sorry, I'm being really sarcastic. I like Drew, I really do. But the fact is, chances are better with him he won't be taking the field very often than it is with Soriano.

[Drew Doughty]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Minus breaking his wrist last year due to being HBP -- which can't really be attributed to being injury prone, I think -- he's been fairly healthy the last three years.

 

Okay, well you can't just look at the past 3 years and ignore the first 5. Especially when last year he missed time (although a fluke injury). IIRC he was also injured some in 2005. Didn't miss a ton of time but had some sort of injury.

 

I will say that he gets minor injuries fairly often, but 145 games of Drew > Soriano IMO. Without the broken wrist last year, I imagine he ends up between 140 and 150 games.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in looking at 3 year trends rather than a whole career.

[jjgman21]

This is kinda fun. You guys mind waiting a few minutes while I go make some popcorn, though? ;)

 

I would love to continue doing my part to entertain you, but I have to get my files together for this week.

 

Cubs are now better than they were when we woke up this morning.

 

could they have been better? probably, but none of us have the knowledge of what was possible and what wasn't.

 

good night all.

 

Go Cubs. Go Bears. Go Badgers. Peace.

[Soul]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

Minus breaking his wrist last year due to being HBP -- which can't really be attributed to being injury prone, I think -- he's been fairly healthy the last three years.

 

He played 72 games in 2005. Was that because he was on his Mormon holiday?

 

Sorry, I'm being really sarcastic. I like Drew, I really do. But the fact is, chances are better with him he won't be taking the field very often than it is with Soriano.

 

Ahhh....to me "last year" was 2006 :) My bad.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

 

Seeing the players play which Ive seen Soriano and Drew as well. Oh sorry Ive rarely seen Drew play cause hes been hurt about three quarters of his career

 

Soriano hasn't been good when I've seen him because he's made an out about three quarters of his career. Your post is moronic.

[nilodnayr]

I know the answer, of course we should, and I think that's what PECOTA is all about. so it comes back to my original question, what was he using to compare Soriano and Drew? did he use numbers that show these trends, or did he pluck those that best made his points. his silence on the matter is deafening.

 

ive already said it. career averages for soriano, drew and some estimation on pie.

 

I must have missed it.

 

great methodology for a sabr guy. really shows the trends with those career averages.

 

KC, would you mind using an average of the last 3 years like you did with Pie?

 

that doesn't get it done either. it doesn't account for Soriano's three year upward trend and Drew's three year downward trend.

And what qualitative rationale do you have that Drew is regressing and Soriano is progressing? And you are right, credibility weighting should be applied to the three years, not a straight average since after all the most recent the experience, the better the predictor.

 

Most recent year= 45%

Previous year =35%

2nd previous year =25%

[rjchapma]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

 

I base it on watching players. Ive seen both and Soriano has been more productive. Drew hasnt played enough in his career to prove that he is better than Soriano.

[WrigleyField 22]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

 

I base it on watching players. Ive seen both and Soriano has been more productive. Drew hasnt played enough in his career to prove that he is better than Soriano.

 

Your eyes are lying to you.

[sonicdethmonkey0]

Seeing the players play which Ive seen Soriano and Drew as well. Oh sorry Ive rarely seen Drew play cause hes been hurt about three quarters of his career

 

are you captain of your junior high debate team or what

[Mephistopheles]

Drew hasnt played enough in his career to prove that he is better than Soriano.

 

man almost 1,000 games and 4,000 plate appearances. it's a tough crowd tonight.

[CoolHandLuke]

Im sorry that I dont use OPS or other random statistics to always support my case Im sorry I have a life and am not looking them up 24/7 to rip on someone who is just stating his opinion.

 

OPS isn't a "random" stat. And it only takes about 15 seconds to look it up at any number of sites.

 

By not using OPS you openly admit to not using the stat that best determines offensive production in a cursory manner.

 

So, how do you judge a good player?

 

I base it on watching players. Ive seen both and Soriano has been more productive. Drew hasnt played enough in his career to prove that he is better than Soriano.

 

Can you recall every single time Soriano has batted? That is what the stats that people love to throw around represent.

Edited November 20, 2006 by CoolHandLuke

[A New Era]

This is kinda fun. You guys mind waiting a few minutes while I go make some popcorn, though? ;)

 

I don't have popcorn, but reading this has made my head pop. Does that count?

[nilodnayr]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

It also shows he was healthy the last three years except for being hit on the hand by a pitch, which you surely can't fault him for.

[rjchapma]

You guys are basing the begining of Drews career over Sorianos complete career. You cant compare them. On another note I tried to delete that post because it didnt make sense.

[WrigleyField 22]

Drew isnt that good thats why and you guys highly overrate with him.

 

You should meet my friend, Mr. Facts.

 

Hmmm, Mr. Facts shows that out of 8 seasons for Drew, 4 of them were seriously hampered due to injury and 2 others were less than 140 games.

 

That's what is known in the real universe as a player with injury problems.

 

It also shows he was healthy the last three years except for being hit on the hand by a pitch, which you surely can't fault him for.

 

He doesn't drink enough milk. His bones are weak.

[Warpticon]

Wow, Soriano that quickly. I'm possibly pleased. I'd rather have had Drew, but the injury concerns are there, and Soriano's athleticism do give him a better chance than most to stay productive at advanced ages. A career year at 30 is cause for concern,

 

To all the people suggesting it could be a 5/90 with 46 mil in options: why would the options be for less per year than the first 5 years? I'd see it more likely at 5/80 (16 mil per) with options for years 6-8 for 17, 18, and 20.