Westbrook

[Tim]

He's mentioned in several threads as a target that people here are excited about. I just don't see the reason for excitement. But I'm willing to be convinced.

 

Anyone care to give it a go?

[mul21]

He's mentioned in several threads as a target that people here are excited about. I just don't see the reason for excitement. But I'm willing to be convinced.

 

Anyone care to give it a go?

 

I think it has to do with the supposition that Hendry is after him or Cliff Lee and Westbrook is the better option of the 2, but I'll look up some numbers too.

 

Pitched almost 6 2/3 per start with an ERA of 4.17, 2.3 BB/9, 4.5 K/9, whip is a little high (2006 stats). I guess I'm kind of with you Tim. Nothing spectacular, may get a little help going to the NL, but he's a serviceable guy and if he can be had for little I'm not against it. I wouldn't want to give up Murton for him

Edited November 18, 2006 by mul21

[YearofDaCubs]

I think he's a good #3 pitcher. If the asking price is cheap I say go for it. I feel that he's in the same category as Lilly and Padilla and if he can be traded it won't limit us to any FA B and A signings so we can still pick up new players.

[Guest]

I think he's a good #3 pitcher. If the asking price is cheap I say go for it. I feel that he's in the same category as Lilly and Padilla and if he can be traded it won't limit us to any FA B and A signings so we can still pick up new players.

Are your standards for a "good #3 pitcher" to be worse than league average in ERA most years?

[Uber]

Put me in the same boat, I'm yet to be swayed into the 'for Westbrook' column.

[Guest]

I'm asking this because some people seem genuinely excited about the prospect of having Westbrook here. I'd love to debate his merits with anyone in that camp...

[Mephistopheles]

He's the lesser of the two evils. He might stand to benefit from the high grass, but he won't be a HR disaster like Lee would.

[rocket]

He had a very good year in 2004, and a decent year this year. Maybe a switch to a weaker league would bring better numbers.

[Guest]

He's the lesser of the two evils. He might stand to benefit from the high grass, but he won't be a HR disaster like Lee would.

that's not the ringing endorsement I'm itching to destroy. ;)

[jmajew]

I'd love to have Westbrook here but only at a certain price. There is no way I'd give up Murton for him. However, if we could trade Eyre and Jones for him I would love it. I'd even pick up 3/4 of Eyre's contract if it meant getting rid of Jones as well.

 

Westrbook is nothing more than a 3-4. Frankly, I'd love it if he was on the Cubs because as of now we don't have a 4. We have a 1(Zambrano), 3(Hill), and a 5(Miller and Prior). Any of the available free agents are all in the same boat as Westbrook ability wise so I see no reason to sign one of them at 10 mil a year, Batista, Lilly, and Padilla.

Edited November 18, 2006 by jmajew

[Guest]

He had a very good year in 2004, and a decent year this year. Maybe a switch to a weaker league would bring better numbers.

So the excitement is based on hope? As a former boss used to tell me, "Hope ain't a strategy!"

[Mephistopheles]

Well he does a career 3.01 ERA against the National League.

 

He had a very good year in 2004, and a decent year this year. Maybe a switch to a weaker league would bring better numbers.

 

Yeah but he won't get to face the Royals all the time and his career 2.41 ERA against them.

[CubColtPacer]

He had a very good year in 2004, and a decent year this year. Maybe a switch to a weaker league would bring better numbers.

 

The only thing that scares me about those years? In some years, his home/away splits are decently even. In 2004 and 2006 (as you said, his 2 pretty good years), here they are

 

2004

Home: 7-2, 2.37 ERA

Away: 7-7, 4.13 ERA

 

2006

Home-7-4, 2.88 ERA

Away-8-6, 5.40 ERA

 

That scares me a little bit about him.

[Mephistopheles]

The only thing that scares me about those years? In some years, his home/away splits are decently even. In 2004 and 2006 (as you said, his 2 pretty good years), here they are

 

2004

Home: 7-2, 2.37 ERA

Away: 7-7, 4.13 ERA

 

2006

Home-7-4, 2.88 ERA

Away-8-6, 5.40 ERA

 

That scares me a little bit about him.

 

I'd be willing to bet that his .353 2006 road BABIP is going to come down next season.

Edited November 18, 2006 by Mephistopheles

[Guest]

I'd love to have Westbrook here but only at a certain price. There is no way I'd give up Murton for him. However, if we could trade Eyre and Jones for him I would love it. I'd even pick up 3/4 of Eyre's contract if it meant getting rid of Jones as well.

 

Westrbook is nothing more than a 3-4. Frankly, I'd love it if he was on the Cubs because as of now we don't have a 4. We have a 1(Zambrano), 3(Hill), and a 5(Miller and Prior). Any of the available free agents are all in the same boat as Westbrook ability wise so I see no reason to sign one of them at 10 mil a year, Batista, Lilly, and Padilla.

I'm certainly not against dumping some of our garbage for him and putting him in the #4 slot. But I cannot see trading anything that we'd miss for him if the issue is just going to come down to money.

 

Heck, we could sign one of the FA pitchers and trade them in June for additional talent if one of our young guys starts to show some consistency.

[rocket]

He had a very good year in 2004, and a decent year this year. Maybe a switch to a weaker league would bring better numbers.

So the excitement is based on hope? As a former boss used to tell me, "Hope ain't a strategy!"

 

Well, I'm not that excited about him. I'd welcome him to the team if the price is right, I'm just stating why he would/could be a good acquisition for the Cubs.

 

But I don't think he's that great or anything.

[mg420]

if the cards thought that way they never would have signed carpenter. westbrook doesnt have many k's but he doesnt walk many either, throws 200 + innings per year and had 3 cg's (with a total of 10 in the past 3 years) while the whole cubs staff only had 1 between them. he has had an era around 4.00 the last 3 years in the much more offensive AL and averaged 15 wins a year. assuming he wouldnt cost alot in talent (a few young bullpen arms as has been suggested) i think he would be a great fit for the cubs rotation. compared to what padilla offers for 10 mil a year he's quite a bargin imo.

[Guest]

The only thing that scares me about those years? In some years, his home/away splits are decently even. In 2004 and 2006 (as you said, his 2 pretty good years), here they are

 

2004

Home: 7-2, 2.37 ERA

Away: 7-7, 4.13 ERA

 

2006

Home-7-4, 2.88 ERA

Away-8-6, 5.40 ERA

 

That scares me a little bit about him.

 

I'd be willing to bet that his .353 2006 road BABIP is going to come down next season.

And I'm pretty willing to bet that a guy who strikes out less than 5 / 9IP isn't going to maintain an ERA under 3.00 on a regular basis, either.

[Mephistopheles]

And I am willing to bet that a guy who keeps his walk rate average and keeps a decent HR rate because of his high groundball rate can keep his ERA pretty low IF he can count on his fielders making enough errors to have 15 unearned runs a season.

 

I'm not arguing either side, I'm playing devil's advocate. If it means trading for him to get rid of Cesar Izturis, then so be it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think he's a good #3 pitcher. If the asking price is cheap I say go for it. I feel that he's in the same category as Lilly and Padilla and if he can be traded it won't limit us to any FA B and A signings so we can still pick up new players.

Are your standards for a "good #3 pitcher" to be worse than league average in ERA most years?

 

What's your standard for a "good #3 pitcher"? Westbrook isn't a stud, but he doesn't walk people, doesn't give up home runs, throws a TON of ground balls, and (likely as a combination of the previously mentioned) has solid defense independent numbers.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

There's a very slim possibility that acquiring Westbrook could mean Izturis is what we use to get him?

[mg420]

There's a very slim possibility that acquiring Westbrook could mean Izturis is what we use to get him?

i guess they aren't too interested in cedeno (i wonder why?) but maybe izturis, eyre & ohman might be enough? heck, why not throw in novoa too. out of all those, ohmani the only one i would miss.

[Mephistopheles]

What's your standard for a "good #3 pitcher"? Westbrook isn't a stud, but he doesn't walk people, doesn't give up home runs, throws a TON of ground balls, and (likely as a combination of the previously mentioned) has solid defense independent numbers.

 

Pitchers with high GB rates tend to be overrated because people fixate on their earned run average ignoring their run average. Yes it's not their fault the player made the error, but the simple fact is an extreme groundball pitcher like Westbrook puts a lot more pressure on his defense and it should lead to a higher unearned run rate. He's allowed 38 unearned runs the last three season. Some of those are not his fault, but a lot certainly are.

[mg420]

What's your standard for a "good #3 pitcher"? Westbrook isn't a stud, but he doesn't walk people, doesn't give up home runs, throws a TON of ground balls, and (likely as a combination of the previously mentioned) has solid defense independent numbers.

 

Pitchers with high GB rates tend to be overrated because people fixate on their earned run average ignoring their run average. Yes it's not their fault the player made the error, but the simple fact is an extreme groundball pitcher like Westbrook puts a lot more pressure on his defense and it should lead to a higher unearned run rate. He's allowed 38 unearned runs the last three season. Some of those are not his fault, but a lot certainly are.

 

how is it a pitchers fault when a fielder doesnt make a play? unless he is making the error, there is no way he can be blamed because he throws ground balls instead of fly balls or k's.

[jtownie]

This guy basically needs really good defense behind him on the infield. From everything I am seeing statwise his BB and K rates have been consistent for 3 straight years. As a few others have said his ERA and WHIP are going to be tied to his BABIP. If he can get his LD% down just a few points he can be even more successful. Being the NL should help raise his K-rate a smidge maybe.

 

He's an average pitcher that appears to rely on luck. Not a guy you give up a lot for but cheaper than a lot of the FA the Cubs are rumored to be interested in and seemingly just as effective. He may not have the "ceiling" of a Meche or Padilla but you know what you're going to get.

 

I'd have no problem giving up an Eyre or Wuertz and marshall as I believe the original rumor has stated. Marshall probably could do just as well but his health seems to be a question mark and Westbrook is definitely an innings eater that is going to give the Cubs an ERA around league average.