2007 Cubs vs 2006 Yankees

[Southpaw191679666239]

I'm hoping this is more for discussion than transactions... so I'm putting this thread here.

 

If JH is told (or feels) that he needs to spend money to get quality players to "win now", and he fills our holes with said players... how would the '07 Cubs be different from the '06 Yankees; whom also went with superstars?

 

Now granted, we'd have Murton, Cedeno, Theriot, Hill, etc., etc. ... not to mention the fact we wouldn't have All-Stars up and down the lineup either ... BUT ... would it really be all that different? And if that's the case, is it really the right route to go?

[fiver]

The '07 Cubs would still have a payroll at least 60-70 million dollars less than the '06 Yankees. That said...the entities would not be that similar. Edited October 13, 2006 by fiver

[kroth1342]

The Cubs would have at least one or two cheap, homegrown pitchers.

[Shawon12]

I'd say let's cross that bridge when we/IF we get there.

I'll believe it when I see it

[goonys evil twin]

I'm hoping this is more for discussion than transactions... so I'm putting this thread here.

 

If JH is told (or feels) that he needs to spend money to get quality players to "win now", and he fills our holes with said players... how would the '07 Cubs be different from the '06 Yankees; whom also went with superstars?

 

Now granted, we'd have Murton, Cedeno, Theriot, Hill, etc., etc. ... not to mention the fact we wouldn't have All-Stars up and down the lineup either ... BUT ... would it really be all that different? And if that's the case, is it really the right route to go?

 

It would be incredibly different. Presumably they wouldn't have $15 million bench players for one.

 

Then again, the Yankees won 97 games this year, was it really the wrong way?

[jmajew]

I think an all-star studded lineup is not the way to go. A team has to have its share of all-stars but it also needs those role players. Guys like Matt Murton who can get on base, Endy Chavez for the Mets who plays incredible defense and has one of the most importatn roles on that team, and Placido Polanco on the Tigers all are extremely importatn pieces of teams.

 

I think a group of guys who don't recieve tons of accolades on their own are more likely to win. Players who recieve tons of accolades tend to get complacent with their lives, and their number 1 goal is not to win the World Series, even though they say it is. Players like Polanco, Chavez, Jay Payton, Craig Monroe, Thames, Ronnie Belliard, David Eckstein, Jose Valentine, Paul LoDuca they all play to win the World Series and that is it. Those are the types of guys you need to fill in around your All-Stars.

[goonys evil twin]

The Cubs would have at least one or two cheap, homegrown pitchers.

 

Chien-Ming Wang was a cheap homegrown pitcher, not to mention, their best pitcher.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Get the best players possible. That's the way we should go and if the Trib will pay for it, I'm happy with buying a title. At this point, I don't care how we do it.

[goonys evil twin]

I think an all-star studded lineup is not the way to go. A team has to have its share of all-stars but it also needs those role players. Guys like Matt Murton who can get on base, Endy Chavez for the Mets who plays incredible defense and has one of the most importatn roles on that team, and Placido Polanco on the Tigers all are extremely importatn pieces of teams.

 

I think a group of guys who don't recieve tons of accolades on their own are more likely to win. Players who recieve tons of accolades tend to get complacent with their lives, and their number 1 goal is not to win the World Series, even though they say it is. Players like Polanco, Chavez, Jay Payton, Craig Monroe, Thames, Ronnie Belliard, David Eckstein, Jose Valentine, Paul LoDuca they all play to win the World Series and that is it. Those are the types of guys you need to fill in around your All-Stars.

 

It's not a matter of being complacent. The Yankees lost because their pitching sucked and they are old and got cold at the wrong time. The Yankees had cheap role players, like Robinson Cano, Miguel Cairo, Aaron Guiel, not to mention Bernie Williams, who made $1.5m. These role players names are the same as any of the role players still alive in the playoffs.

 

They didn't lose because of chemistry, or too many stars. They lost because baseball is a fickle sport when it comes to the playoffs and teams get hot and cold all the time.

[USSoccer]

The Cubs would have at least one or two cheap, homegrown pitchers.

 

Chien-Ming Wang was a cheap homegrown pitcher, not to mention, their best pitcher.

 

Wang had a very good season, but wasn't Mussina statistically better?

[goonys evil twin]

The Cubs would have at least one or two cheap, homegrown pitchers.

 

Chien-Ming Wang was a cheap homegrown pitcher, not to mention, their best pitcher.

 

Wang had a very good season, but wasn't Mussina statistically better?

 

Maybe he was, I was just making a point that having 1 or 2 cheap homegrown pitchers wouldn't make us different from the Yankees. And the Yankees problem was they spent huge money on old guys that don't have it anymore.

 

Yeah, it looks like Mussina was a little better this year.

[USSoccer]

The Cubs would have at least one or two cheap, homegrown pitchers.

 

Chien-Ming Wang was a cheap homegrown pitcher, not to mention, their best pitcher.

 

Wang had a very good season, but wasn't Mussina statistically better?

 

Maybe he was, I was just making a point that having 1 or 2 cheap homegrown pitchers wouldn't make us different from the Yankees. And the Yankees problem was they spent huge money on old guys that don't have it anymore.

 

Yeah, it looks like Mussina was a little better this year.

 

Yeah, I was nitpicking a little, but I agree with the point that developing some cheap players to contribute doesn't make us the anti-Yankees.

[WrigleyField 22]

I really think we should help the Yankees with their problem of not having enough role players.

 

Ituriz for ARod. No cash exchanged. We could throw in Dempster as well.

[goonys evil twin]

I really think we should help the Yankees with their problem of not having enough role players.

 

Ituriz for ARod. No cash exchanged. We could throw in Dempster as well.

 

You're too kind.

[WrigleyField 22]

I really think we should help the Yankees with their problem of not having enough role players.

 

Ituriz for ARod. No cash exchanged. We could throw in Dempster as well.

 

You're too kind.

 

You're right, I want them to pay half of his remaining salary. And we get Farsworth back. We'll give Les Walrond to compensate for their loss.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think an all-star studded lineup is not the way to go.

 

This is insane.

[woodchip2153]

I think an all-star studded lineup is not the way to go.

 

This is insane.

 

FJM just made a post about this. of course it was hilarious.

[jmajew]

I think an all-star studded lineup is not the way to go.

 

This is insane.

 

No its not insane. It is being realistic. If you have all all-stars in yoru lineup and then have a crappy pitching staff you are up a creek. A great offense will get you to the playoffs year in and year out, however, it cannot win you a World Series. In order to win a World Series you have to have an extremely good pitching staff. Or atleast have your staff get hot at the right time.

 

A hot pitching staff will always beat a great offense. Teams need an adequate offense, granted you should get the best one you possibly can, but pitching is what wins the World Series. The ideal situation woudl be to have the Yankees offense with the A's pitching staff. But if I had to choose I'd choos a pitching staff like the A's vs an offense like the Yankees. Yes, I know the A's have not won anything recently but that is because their offense has been so awful and barely average for the league.

[Banedon]

I think an all-star studded lineup is not the way to go.

 

This is insane.

 

FJM just made a post about this. of course it was hilarious.

 

The overabundance of talent makes it too easy for players to assume that someone will come through and pick them up.

 

That is totally insane, and yet I've heard this same theory bandied about on TV several times in the last few days. In John Rolfe's brain, there's a graph with talent on the vertical axis, and when you cross a certain point on that axis, you get into the "overabundance of talent" zone, where adding more talent hurts you. It hurts you because every guy stepping to the plate thinks to himself, "I'll let Sheff or Hideki or whoever the f get these guys in, we have too much talent in this lineup and I am an idiot who wants to fail because of that."

[goonys evil twin]

No its not insane. It is being realistic. If you have all all-stars in yoru lineup and then have a crappy pitching staff you are up a creek. A great offense will get you to the playoffs year in and year out, however, it cannot win you a World Series. In order to win a World Series you have to have an extremely good pitching staff. Or atleast have your staff get hot at the right time.

 

A hot pitching staff will always beat a great offense.

 

Who says you can't have a great pitching staff, or a staff that gets hot, just because you've got a lot of all stars in the lineup?

 

What is with this black and white world where everybody thinks it's either hitting or pitching. You need both. The Mets would be up a creek without their lineup.

 

The Yankees lost because they spent millions on really old and/or broken down pitchers. It was very similar to the Cubs relying on already injured pitchers.

[Derwood]

No its not insane. It is being realistic. If you have all all-stars in yoru lineup and then have a crappy pitching staff you are up a creek. A great offense will get you to the playoffs year in and year out, however, it cannot win you a World Series. In order to win a World Series you have to have an extremely good pitching staff. Or atleast have your staff get hot at the right time.

 

A hot pitching staff will always beat a great offense.

 

Who says you can't have a great pitching staff, or a staff that gets hot, just because you've got a lot of all stars in the lineup?

 

What is with this black and white world where everybody thinks it's either hitting or pitching. You need both. The Mets would be up a creek without their lineup.

 

The Yankees lost because they spent millions on really old and/or broken down pitchers. It was very similar to the Cubs relying on already injured pitchers.

 

and people need to stop judging a team's entire season on a 5 game series. Guess what? The Royals or Devil Rays could have beaten the Yankees in a 5 game series. That's baseball.

[jmajew]

No its not insane. It is being realistic. If you have all all-stars in yoru lineup and then have a crappy pitching staff you are up a creek. A great offense will get you to the playoffs year in and year out, however, it cannot win you a World Series. In order to win a World Series you have to have an extremely good pitching staff. Or atleast have your staff get hot at the right time.

 

A hot pitching staff will always beat a great offense.

 

Who says you can't have a great pitching staff, or a staff that gets hot, just because you've got a lot of all stars in the lineup?

 

What is with this black and white world where everybody thinks it's either hitting or pitching. You need both. The Mets would be up a creek without their lineup.

 

The Yankees lost because they spent millions on really old and/or broken down pitchers. It was very similar to the Cubs relying on already injured pitchers.

 

You can have a great offense, and still have a pitching staff get hot. However, it is less likely. If you spend 60 million on 5 pitchers, who are worth the money, there is more of a chance the pitchign staff will get hot than if you spend 30 million on 5 then the other 30 million on an offense. I am not looking at this as black and white. I think I am being realistic in my approach. The Yankees have a 200 million dollar payroll and they built their team all wrong. IMO they have not spent the money wisely.

 

IF you ahve 5 starters who make between 10 and 15 million odds are two will get hot. If you have 5 starters two of which make 3 million one at 6 and then two at 14 million odds aren't as likely that you will have two pitchers get hot.

(All numbers used arbitrarily to help make my point, hopefully we will have some good young pitchers to help lower the actual numbers)

 

Does my logic make no sense at all. It is the same philosophy as having tons of all-Stars on offense to help you to score more runs. I just want to overload on starting pitching. As I have said numerous times you also need to build an adequate offense....hopefully in the top ten in the league but top 15 is fine.

 

Just to point this out about about the Mets their pitching staff has the 6th lowest ERA in baseball this year. So their pitchign staff isn't as bad as you made it out to be.