[Ding Dong Johnson]

And given that he can't throw the ball without spiking or airmailing it, I really hope they give some consideration to moving him out of RF if they can't unload him altogether.

 

And a terrible baserunner.

 

Anyway, like you already said, the real problem with the production that comes from Jones is that the rest of the team is ho-hum. He's OK at best.

[Laura]

To me ... for his salary, it's fine. But he's a mediocre at best right fielder on a team full of mediocre at best players.

 

Whoooopie.

 

You have some pretty high standards.

 

Is that bad?

 

I guess I should lower them for a last place team.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Jones (other than his arm) isn't the problem.

 

Our MIF, CF, rotation, and closer are.

 

Izturis is an injury nightmare waiting to happen (that he's even good is debateable). Cedeno is AAAA at best. Pierre is garbage, plain and simple. I'm glad he isn't upbeat on coming back. Good ridance. Our rotation is a joke other than Z and Hill. How Hendry fills that out will determine our success next year. Injury projects and 2nd tier free agents won't do it.

 

Jones's problems with throwing accuracy are fixable given a coach that addresses the problem instead of letting anyone do whatever they want, whenever they want just so everyone stays happy.

[NCCubFan]

Jones has been playing hurt. He has a torn labrum in his shoulder and bone chips in his elbow.

[soccer10k]

Jones has been playing hurt. He has a torn labrum in his shoulder and bone chips in his elbow.

 

Well that sure is interesting.

 

Jones (other than his arm) isn't the problem.

 

Our MIF, CF, rotation, and closer are.

 

Izturis is an injury nightmare waiting to happen (that he's even good is debateable). Cedeno is AAAA at best. Pierre is garbage, plain and simple. I'm glad he isn't upbeat on coming back. Good ridance. Our rotation is a joke other than Z and Hill. How Hendry fills that out will determine our success next year. Injury projects and 2nd tier free agents won't do it.

 

I agree. It was the starting pitching that really hurt the Cubs this year (although DLee going down didn't help matters).

 

While I don't think Jacque's contract is going to turn out to be the best of FA signings, he was more than serviceable this year and was the least of the team's problems. I realize that the contract is an issue and isn't something that should be ignored when discussing the player but I think that some people focus too much on the contract and find ways to dimish Jacque's on-field production because of it. Give the guy some credit where credit is due.

[DiamondMind]

 

But that's THIS YEAR! Forget this year. In the last year of his deal, will he perform well enough for his salary? That's the argument.

 

Are you serious? That's your argument? "Well, if you just throw out a 25+ HR year for only 5M, and add in the fact he *could* suck next year or the one after..." What makes you dislike Jones so much, just because everyone else here does and it's popular?

[RynoRules]

The fact that Jacque Jones had a career year and it's still being debated whether he's worth the money should tell you all you need to know about the contract.

 

Yes, debated by all of us, the true experts. That's a ridiculous comment, IMO: the fact that something is being debated means that the debate is warranted? That's interesting logic. I know people who would debate you to the end that the Earth is actually flat.

 

Point is, in terms of production relative to salary, Jones was very good this year.

 

So are you saying that the debate is irrational or isn't warranted? Jones had the second best season of his career, yet he still had a mediocre OBP and couldn't hit LHP to save his life. Is it possible for Jones to put up an OPS 40 points better than his career average(which includes this year) again at 32 and 33? I wouldn't bet on it, and that's the point. When Jones puts up an okay season as likely the best of the contract, then it's not a very good contract at all.

 

My point actually has little to do with Jones. You stated that the fact that people are debating Jones' contract "should tell us all we need to know", thus implying that the contract must be terrible b/c people are debating it. That's quite the faulty and conclusory statement.

 

I personally don't like the contract now, and I didn't then. I do like his 06' production relative to the contract, and I also think if you are relyging on him to be a middle of the order guy you have much larger problems to worry about.

[Jon]

Jones is having his second best year ever. This is also only the second time his OPS has been over .800 and it's not that close to his career average.

 

Jones' OPS over the last three years at the Metrodome was .746. You and others totally dismiss the fact that it was possible his OPS was low due (at least in part) to playing in the Metrodome.

His OBP, which wasn't good, is still better than the .315 and .319 he put up the past two seasons. And with the Twins, his road OPS was below .800 from 2003-2005 (.770, .784, .793).

[wastra]

I have to be honest. OPS is a great- unless it's the result of an abnrmally high ratio of slugging to OBP. OBP is, by and large, the most important offensive stat. You can hit the crap out of the ball with good regularity, but if you're making outs 77% of the time you come to the plate, you're likely not helping the team as much as you suspect.

 

The first and foremost goal in hitting is to NOT MAKE AN OUT. Jones, in one of his best years this year, was pretty average in that respect.

 

And comparing his production to other RIGHT FIELDERS is bizarre to me. I don't care what position he plays (and he should be playign left anyway), because when he's at the plate, that has pretty low bearing on his success.

 

At best, he should be compared to CORNER outfielders, since right and left fielders are more or less interchangeable for most teams. I haven't looked to see if this helps or hurts his case- just a bit of logic in the discussion.

[Mizzou]

Jacque Jones goes out and has a season that surpasses almost everyone's expectations. And what do people do on the last day of the season? Bitch about him and his contract. Give me a freaking break.

[goonys evil twin]

Jacque Jones goes out and has a season that surpasses almost everyone's expectations. And what do people do on the last day of the season? Bitch about him and his contract. Give me a freaking break.

 

He surpassed expectations and was still not that good. People realize this is the best we could get from a corner outfielder the next two years, and we'll probably get worse as he ages. It was his 2nd best year ever in his career, and probably the best post 30 year he'll have. But we're stuck with him.

 

 

My problem is not just the money and length. My problem always was that the Cubs settled for mediocrity, as usual. So what if he actually surpassed an 800 OPS in the first year. He's a 750 OPS player at heart, and probably will be as soon as next year. The Cubs needed an impact bat somewhere in the 3/4/5 part of the lineup, yet they went out and got a 6 hitter.

[CuseCubFan69]

Jacque Jones goes out and has a season that surpasses almost everyone's expectations. And what do people do on the last day of the season? Bitch about him and his contract. Give me a freaking break.

 

He surpassed expectations and was still not that good. People realize this is the best we could get from a corner outfielder the next two years, and we'll probably get worse as he ages. It was his 2nd best year ever in his career, and probably the best post 30 year he'll have. But we're stuck with him.

 

 

My problem is not just the money and length. My problem always was that the Cubs settled for mediocrity, as usual. So what if he actually surpassed an 800 OPS in the first year. He's a 750 OPS player at heart, and probably will be as soon as next year. The Cubs needed an impact bat somewhere in the 3/4/5 part of the lineup, yet they went out and got a 6 hitter.

 

Yep. That spot needed a 30-35 HR THIS year and Jones is not a guy that is capable of that. The Cubs had to be close to having the worst HR production out of the OF in the majors.

[Laura]

Jones has been playing hurt. He has a torn labrum in his shoulder and bone chips in his elbow.

 

Great. Is there anyone on the team who doesn't have shoulder and elbow problems? I wonder when this was diagnosed.

[CuseCubFan69]

Jones has been playing hurt. He has a torn labrum in his shoulder and bone chips in his elbow.

 

Great. Is there anyone on the team who doesn't have shoulder and elbow problems? I wonder when this was diagnosed.

 

Barrett doesn't!

[goonys evil twin]

Jones has been playing hurt. He has a torn labrum in his shoulder and bone chips in his elbow.

 

Great. Is there anyone on the team who doesn't have shoulder and elbow problems? I wonder when this was diagnosed.

 

Man, he's a bigger whiner than I thought. "I guess I'm still held accountable for what happened in April." Uh yeah Jacque, you are. That's when the season ended.

 

At least Pierre owns up to his failings.

[neely crenshaw]

 

But that's THIS YEAR! Forget this year. In the last year of his deal, will he perform well enough for his salary? That's the argument.

 

Are you serious? That's your argument? "Well, if you just throw out a 25+ HR year for only 5M, and add in the fact he *could* suck next year or the one after..." What makes you dislike Jones so much, just because everyone else here does and it's popular?

 

are your serious?

yes he had a nice year but we signed him for 3 years at this deal hoping he would do this. it is a multiyear equation ..one good year does not justify signing him for 3 years when it is a very good chance he never reaches these numbers again.if he does hednry is at keast partially right BUT please factor in that having jones for 3 years when we really only need him for 1 to 2 will either cost us murton or delay pie for that amount of time. so unless we are competing for a title next year delating pie is a big deal.

not all deals are just about what someone does for 1 season. there is also a chance that because of having jones and murton on the corners it could cost us theriot...becuase we need to upgrade our production somewhere that is not a power spot like 2b.

jones is a nice player and the price for 1 year was not terrible..but i did not see anyone else offering that much or for that long...which has to be factored in

[Banedon]

 

But that's THIS YEAR! Forget this year. In the last year of his deal, will he perform well enough for his salary? That's the argument.

 

Are you serious? That's your argument? "Well, if you just throw out a 25+ HR year for only 5M, and add in the fact he *could* suck next year or the one after..." What makes you dislike Jones so much, just because everyone else here does and it's popular?

 

Good job putting words in my mouth.

 

Jones is not likely to perform at this same level over the next two years. This was a career year for him. He's never performed as well as he did this year. He has nowhere to go but down. It's not that he *could* suck next year, it's that his performance is *highly likely* to decline over the next two. It was a bad contract.

 

I don't dislike Jacque. I'm rooting for him to do well, but I think the contract he was signed to was too long, and limits the teams options. That's not Jacque's fault, it's the Cubs fault. It's Hendry's fault. And I do dislike Hendry.

[Bruno7481]

 

But that's THIS YEAR! Forget this year. In the last year of his deal, will he perform well enough for his salary? That's the argument.

 

Are you serious? That's your argument? "Well, if you just throw out a 25+ HR year for only 5M, and add in the fact he *could* suck next year or the one after..." What makes you dislike Jones so much, just because everyone else here does and it's popular?

 

Good job putting words in my mouth.

 

Jones is not likely to perform at this same level over the next two years. This was a career year for him. He's never performed as well as he did this year. He has nowhere to go but down. It's not that he *could* suck next year, it's that his performance is *highly likely* to decline over the next two. It was a bad contract.

 

I don't dislike Jacque. I'm rooting for him to do well, but I think the contract he was signed to was too long, and limits the teams options. That's not Jacque's fault, it's the Cubs fault. It's Hendry's fault. And I do dislike Hendry.

 

Jones in 2002:

 

.300/.341/.511/.852 27 HR 85 RBI

 

Pretty much an identical season.

[goonys evil twin]

 

Jones is not likely to perform at this same level over the next two years. This was a career year for him. He's never performed as well as he did this year.

 

 

I think 2002 was a career year, when he was 27. I think this was his second peak, and it's probably telling that it was below his true career year. In 6 of his 8 seasons he was considerably less productive than he was in 2002 and 2006. This is a pretty strong indication that he will not repeat his 2006 numbers. And one good year out of 3 would hardly be surprising.

[wastra]

Jacque Jones goes out and has a season that surpasses almost everyone's expectations. And what do people do on the last day of the season? Bitch about him and his contract. Give me a freaking break.

 

 

LMAO. Surpassing expectations isn't anything to tout. we EXPECTED him to royally blow. he was royally average instead. Whoopee!!!!

 

At a position in which you NEED a gret deal of offense, a team with a $90 million payroll shouldn't be looking for good "production for the dollar." They should be looking for good "production." We only came into this season knowing we had two truly top-caliber offensive players in Lee and Ramirez. Murton was a question mark and in his first full season. Walker was solid, but nothign spectacular. Barret is very good 'for a catcher' but not the caliber hitter who can be a stud. We haven't even TRIED to bring in a top-caliber corner outfielder since the Alou fiasco. That's unacceptible for a team that has struggled to score runs for 5 years considering it's probably the easiest offensive position to upgrade in the majors.

 

We settled for someone we EXPECTED to be bad, but turned out to be mediocre-to-average. that's not a recipe for success.

Edited October 2, 2006 by wastra

[goonys evil twin]

Jones in 2002:

 

.300/.341/.511/.852 27 HR 85 RBI

 

Pretty much an identical season.

 

2 good years out of 8. Odds are 2007 and 2008 will be more in-line with the bad years.

[Banedon]

 

But that's THIS YEAR! Forget this year. In the last year of his deal, will he perform well enough for his salary? That's the argument.

 

Are you serious? That's your argument? "Well, if you just throw out a 25+ HR year for only 5M, and add in the fact he *could* suck next year or the one after..." What makes you dislike Jones so much, just because everyone else here does and it's popular?

 

Good job putting words in my mouth.

 

Jones is not likely to perform at this same level over the next two years. This was a career year for him. He's never performed as well as he did this year. He has nowhere to go but down. It's not that he *could* suck next year, it's that his performance is *highly likely* to decline over the next two. It was a bad contract.

 

I don't dislike Jacque. I'm rooting for him to do well, but I think the contract he was signed to was too long, and limits the teams options. That's not Jacque's fault, it's the Cubs fault. It's Hendry's fault. And I do dislike Hendry.

 

Jones in 2002:

 

.300/.341/.511/.852 27 HR 85 RBI

 

Pretty much an identical season.

 

Ok, so he matched his career year. Are you arguing that those 2 are more in line with what his future performance will be than the other 6 seasons?

[Mizzou]

Jacque Jones goes out and has a season that surpasses almost everyone's expectations. And what do people do on the last day of the season? Bitch about him and his contract. Give me a freaking break.

 

 

LMAO. Surpassing expectations isn't anything to tout. we EXPECTED him to royally blow. he was royally average instead. Whoopee!!!!

Only two RFers in the NL had a higher OPS than Jacque this year. He was hardly average. But that's okay, go ahead and bash him anyways.

[goonys evil twin]

Ok, so he matched his career year. Are you arguing that those 2 are more in line with what his future performance will be than the other 6 seasons?

 

Hendry probably would. He's the kind of guy who always dwells on what guys are capable of at their best, as opposed to what they are most likely to actually do. In his mind, a guy who hit .300 once in his career is a .300 hitter, even if he hits .265 the rest of the time. In that case, you just aren't seeing the "real player".

[Banedon]

Jacque Jones goes out and has a season that surpasses almost everyone's expectations. And what do people do on the last day of the season? Bitch about him and his contract. Give me a freaking break.

 

 

LMAO. Surpassing expectations isn't anything to tout. we EXPECTED him to royally blow. he was royally average instead. Whoopee!!!!

Only two RFers in the NL had a higher OPS than Jacque this year. He was hardly average. But that's okay, go ahead and bash him anyways.

 

*sigh*

 

Jacque isn't bad. His contract is.

 

And this was started by someone stating that "everyone on this board" was wrong about him. Which it's too early to tell if that's the case. That's it.