I just wasted 10 min of my life w/a Carrie Muskat article

[frostwyrm]

I really think Hendry has earmarked a big bag of cash for Pierre. He will overpay if necessary.

 

Heck, he'll overpay even if it isn't necessary.

 

But strangely, he didn't overpay for his #1 target last season, Furcal. I'm hoping Pierre asks for too much.

Yeah but Hendry had Cedeno as a backup plan, and Hendry has shown he will tolerate all-glove no-hit players in the MIF. He will not tolerate 2 rookies in the OF next year, so Murton/Pie is not a likely plan A. Hendry also talks about leadoff like it's a position, so in his mind Pierre's departure would leave a big hole in the offense.

 

Murton won't be a rookie anymore.

 

Rookie-ish? Well, he's not a "proven" player anyway, not enough for a Murton/Pie scenario to be realistic. Maybe for another team, not this one.

[mg420]

its a very good chance imo that 2007 will start out with murton, pierre & jones in the of. if pie can be consistent in iowa, they can trade jones & put pie in rf. if this is the cubs strategy, pie will be switched to rf if/when pierre signs a contract. as far as cedeno, there is no way that he should be playing either 2b or ss for the cubs next year. when baker goes, hopefully the new manager will give theriot the 2b job to lose as he has earned it big time imo. maybe baker can take bynum with him when he leaves.

[goonys evil twin]

as far as cedeno, there is no way that he should be playing either 2b or ss for the cubs next year. when baker goes, hopefully the new manager will give theriot the 2b job to lose as he has earned it big time imo.

 

I think it's bit shortsighted to say Theriot has earned the 2B job next year. He's 2 years older than Ronny and has about the same OPS throughout his minor league career. I'm all for replacing Ronny with a better player, but Theriot has not earned the starting 2B job for next year.

[BigbadB]

As much as I like Theriot, I see him as nothing more than a utility player.

 

2nd, short, CF and RF are the positions the Cubs should be looking to upgrade this offseason.

[Soul]

its a very good chance imo that 2007 will start out with murton, pierre & jones in the of. if pie can be consistent in iowa, they can trade jones & put pie in rf. if this is the cubs strategy, pie will be switched to rf if/when pierre signs a contract. as far as cedeno, there is no way that he should be playing either 2b or ss for the cubs next year. when baker goes, hopefully the new manager will give theriot the 2b job to lose as he has earned it big time imo. maybe baker can take bynum with him when he leaves.

 

....then we start '07 with the worst outfield in the NL, just as we did this season.

 

I'm not convinced Theriot is a long-term answer @ 2B. Didn't we go down this road with Cedeno last year? You certainly can't take what a young player does in garbage time and extrapolate that into some kind of permanent forecast.

[mg420]

as far as cedeno, there is no way that he should be playing either 2b or ss for the cubs next year. when baker goes, hopefully the new manager will give theriot the 2b job to lose as he has earned it big time imo.

 

I think it's bit shortsighted to say Theriot has earned the 2B job next year. He's 2 years older than Ronny and has about the same OPS throughout his minor league career. I'm all for replacing Ronny with a better player, but Theriot has not earned the starting 2B job for next year.

 

he fields well, runs well, hits well, bunts well, and has had some big clutch hits. i dont think cedeno's minor leauge #'s mean much the way he has played the past few months. aside from his very weak hitting, his supposedly very good defense has gone south and he's been brutal in the field. unless the cubs decide to go out and spend big $ on a free agent or make a trade for a 2b (which would make no sense imo with ep in iowa), i think theriot would be the best option (with perhaps fontent to compliment him) in 2007.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

There's no reason to go into 2007 with Ronny or Theriot as the starting 2b. There should be a number of options on the FA market that would be markedly better. Some will be more expensive than others, but here are some impending FA 2b with 2006 stats and age.

 

1. Luis Castillo age 31. 291/347/368. Castillo could answer the lead-off question if Pierre leaves. He doesn't steal as well as he used to and his success rate isn't great either. He's not a great option, but he is better than Cedeno.

 

2. Mark Loretta age 35. 293/353/366. He, like Castillo doesn't have much power and he won't steal a lot of bases, but he brings a nice OBP. Could fill the lead-off or number two spot in the line-up.

 

3. Ray Durham age 34. 298/367/541. His SLG% is way out of line of anything he's done previously, so I wouldn't pay too much expecting that kind of slugging. He'll bring above average OBP and could also fill the need of a lead-off hitter.

 

One of course could add Soriano to this list. And other players of mention include Adam Kennedy, Craig Biggio (though I doubt he goes anywhere), Mark DeRosa, the much maligned Todd Walker, Mark Grudzielanek, and Ronnie Beliard. That's 9-10 FA second basemen on the market that all would provide varying degrees of productivity, but all would be better options that what the Cubs have in-house.

 

Also assuming that Marcus Giles could be placed on the trade block, and there's no good reason to go into spring training with Theriot or Cedeno as anything more than a utility player on this team.

 

Edit: I also neglected one of my favorite options in Jeff Kent. With that many secondbasemen looking for employment, it may be the one area with the exception of Soriano, that bargains are easily found.

[Soul]

as far as cedeno, there is no way that he should be playing either 2b or ss for the cubs next year. when baker goes, hopefully the new manager will give theriot the 2b job to lose as he has earned it big time imo.

 

I think it's bit shortsighted to say Theriot has earned the 2B job next year. He's 2 years older than Ronny and has about the same OPS throughout his minor league career. I'm all for replacing Ronny with a better player, but Theriot has not earned the starting 2B job for next year.

 

he fields well, runs well, hits well, bunts well, and has had some big clutch hits. i dont think cedeno's minor leauge #'s mean much the way he has played the past few months. aside from his very weak hitting, his supposedly very good defense has gone south and he's been brutal in the field. unless the cubs decide to go out and spend big $ on a free agent or make a trade for a 2b (which would make no sense imo with ep in iowa), i think theriot would be the best option (with perhaps fontent to compliment him) in 2007.

 

But again, how does this mean anything whatsoever? This is garbage time.

 

To me, making Theriot the standup favorite to start @ 2B has "rebuilding year" written all over it. And that's fine, I guess, but I certainly doubt the Cubs will admit it if they go that route.

[goonys evil twin]

But again, how does this mean anything whatsoever? This is garbage time.

 

To me, making Theriot the standup favorite to start @ 2B has "rebuilding year" written all over it. And that's fine, I guess, but I certainly doubt the Cubs will admit it if they go that route.

 

More than it being garbage time, what matters most is the sample size, 2000 PA of minimal production in the minors and 90 PA of solid produciton in the majors. You just don't hand out starting jobs based on those numbers.

 

 

What he should be is the $350,000 utility player, instead of signing a $2.5 million version.

[mg420]

i still like theriot & think he should get a shot at starting next year. 2 more big hits by him today.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

[mg420]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

 

Perhaps you should not put words in my mouth. I never said he could only be a starter for the Yankees.

[BigbadB]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

 

A team cannot trot out Pierre, Jones and Murton in the outfield, Izturis at SS and Theriot at 2nd base and be competitive. That's 5/8's of the starting offense.

 

See the Cubs current standings as to why they can't. Could they if they put JD Drew, Soriano and Andruw Jones in the outfield next year? Sure. Will that happen? No. 2nd base is one of the easier spots to upgrade going into 2007, so it wouldn't be wise to pencil in what could be a useful and cheap utility player into that role.

[mg420]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

 

Perhaps you should not put words in my mouth. I never said he could only be a starter for the Yankees.

 

then what does this mean?

[mg420]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

 

A team cannot trot out Pierre, Jones and Murton in the outfield, Izturis at SS and Theriot at 2nd base and be competitive. That's 5/8's of the starting offense.

 

See the Cubs current standings as to why they can't. Could they if they put JD Drew, Soriano and Andruw Jones in the outfield next year? Sure. Will that happen? No. 2nd base is one of the easier spots to upgrade going into 2007, so it wouldn't be wise to pencil in what could be a useful and cheap utility player into that role.

 

if they have lee, barrett, aram, a good starting staff & a good bullpen they can. again, look at the OF for oakland, st louis, & the twins and tell me why an of of murton, pierre ,& jones (ops's of .800+, .730+ & .800+) wouldn't be sufficiant? the white sox have dye (who is having an mvp type year) and 2 guys in pod's & anderson with ops's under .700 and they will win 90+ games (even with a very shaky starting staff & bullpen and uribe at ss-again under .700).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

 

Perhaps you should not put words in my mouth. I never said he could only be a starter for the Yankees.

 

then what does this mean?

 

That's what it means.

[BigbadB]

Sure, he should be given a shot. Everyone in our system should be given a shot. Theriot's history shows that he would be a very valuable utility man and would likely not produce enough offensively to be counted on as a starter unless he was in the Yankees lineup. He should have been what Neifi/Womack/Macias was.

perhaps you should look at what some 1st place teams (oakland, cards, detroit) are trotting out there at 2b and then tell me why theriot could only be a starter for the yankee's at 2b.

 

A team cannot trot out Pierre, Jones and Murton in the outfield, Izturis at SS and Theriot at 2nd base and be competitive. That's 5/8's of the starting offense.

 

See the Cubs current standings as to why they can't. Could they if they put JD Drew, Soriano and Andruw Jones in the outfield next year? Sure. Will that happen? No. 2nd base is one of the easier spots to upgrade going into 2007, so it wouldn't be wise to pencil in what could be a useful and cheap utility player into that role.

 

if they have lee, barrett, aram, a good starting staff & a good bullpen they can. again, look at the OF for oakland, st louis, & the twins and tell me why an of of murton, pierre ,& jones (ops's of .800+, .730+ & .800+) wouldn't be sufficiant? the white sox have dye (who is having an mvp type year) and 2 guys in pod's & anderson with ops's under .700 and they will win 90+ games (even with a very shaky starting staff & bullpen and uribe at ss-again under .700).

 

If the Cubs have Pierre, Jones, Murton, Izturis and Theriot as 5/8's of their offense next year, we won't be arguing about whether they can win, because I won't be here. I'll be taking a well deserved year off from baseball.

[CubsLadyinSTL]

SO apparently I have been gone too long. Here I thought Juan was a hit. If we all had to decide who would you choose Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton?

[Mizzou]

SO apparently I have been gone too long. Here I thought Juan was a hit. If we all had to decide who would you choose Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton?

Lofton, no doubt. I wanted him for this year and I'd like him for next year as well, assuming that Hendry can't pull of a trade for Andruw Jones.

[CubsLadyinSTL]

SO apparently I have been gone too long. Here I thought Juan was a hit. If we all had to decide who would you choose Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton?

Lofton, no doubt. I wanted him for this year and I'd like him for next year as well, assuming that Hendry can't pull of a trade for Andruw Jones.

 

I loved LOVED Kenny Lofton!!! I thought Juan was a near perfect match defensively, offensively needed some help. Every year I think Kenny has got to be about done, and then he does really well. I would definately take Kenny back but I like Juan too.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

SO apparently I have been gone too long. Here I thought Juan was a hit. If we all had to decide who would you choose Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton?

 

Based on cost, I would have chosed Kenny. I thought Pierre would be better than Lofton this year, but I'd have rather signed Lofton than spent three decent prospects for Pierre.

 

I still would rather Lofton at the cost, but I don't see a need for either.

[BigbadB]

SO apparently I have been gone too long. Here I thought Juan was a hit. If we all had to decide who would you choose Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton?

 

A .330 OBP is certainly better than what the Cubs have gotten out of the lead off spot in a few years, but it's still horrible. Couple in his nearly 20 caught steals, and his OBP plummets even more.

 

The Cubs need better OBP in front of the production guys. Lofton would be an upgrade over Pierre. Julio Lugo would be an improvement. Furcal would have been an improvement.

 

Pierre's days of .350+ OBP are over. He is not selective at the plate and his horrible walk rate makes him a very poor lead off candidate.

 

Some other team will value his speed and offer him a big contract. Good riddance. Hopefully, we get compensation considering how much the Cubs gave away to get him in the first place.

 

Lofton would have been less than half the cost of Pierre and he gets on base at a better clip. Oh, and he wouldn't have cost the Cubs any compensation.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I thought Juan was a hit.

 

See what living in St Louis does to you???

[CubsLadyinSTL]

I thought Juan was a hit.

 

See what living in St Louis does to you???

 

That and other things.