I just wasted 10 min of my life w/a Carrie Muskat article

[Derwood]

Before keeping Pierre, the Cubs should make many inquiries into the availability of Andruw Jones.

 

 

Jones would be great in CF. If that were to happen, I assume they'd go after a lead-off type at 2b.

 

BYNUM

[Derwood]

I think Pierre has done exactly what was expected of him. It's not his fault that Hendry failed to put together a better group around Pierre.

 

It's not his fault he's not good. But that doesn't mean the Cubs should compound the problem by bringing him back.

 

What are the other viable/better options for CF and/or leadoff next year?

[goonys evil twin]

I think Pierre has done exactly what was expected of him. It's not his fault that Hendry failed to put together a better group around Pierre.

 

It's not his fault he's not good. But that doesn't mean the Cubs should compound the problem by bringing him back.

 

What are the other viable/better options for CF and/or leadoff next year?

 

Leadoff is not a position, and does not need to be addressed specifically. The Cubs need to find the 8 best position players they can get. There are several non-Pierre options out there.

[Lefty]

murton should hit # 2 behind juan imo. izturis should be 7th or 8th.

 

Juan should be nowhere near this team next year, if we actually care about a productive lineup.

 

you are right. it would be impossible for a team with pierre leading off to get to the playoffs or world series let alone win them.

 

Don't confuse correlation with causation...please.

[Soul]

I think Pierre has done exactly what was expected of him. It's not his fault that Hendry failed to put together a better group around Pierre.

 

It's not his fault he's not good. But that doesn't mean the Cubs should compound the problem by bringing him back.

 

What are the other viable/better options for CF and/or leadoff next year?

 

Leadoff is not a position, and does not need to be addressed specifically. The Cubs need to find the 8 best position players they can get. There are several non-Pierre options out there.

 

We've got a TON of holes to fill on this club. How many acquisitions do you think Hendry can realistically make? We need 3 starting pitchers, a closer, and another reliever. Then we need a LF, RF, 2B. That's 7 players. Now we should add CF into that mix? Sure, I'd like to overhaul the entire team with a million FA's too, but it's not realistic.

[goonys evil twin]

We've got a TON of holes to fill on this club. How many acquisitions do you think Hendry can realistically make? We need 3 starting pitchers, a closer, and another reliever. Then we need a LF, RF, 2B. That's 7 players. Now we should add CF into that mix? Sure, I'd like to overhaul the entire team with a million FA's too, but it's not realistic.

 

3 starting pitchers isn't going to happen. 2 at most. Closer isn't going to happen. Another reliever isn't going to happen. RF is most likely not going to happen, and there's no way that LF and RF is going to be replaced.

 

There's nothing unrealistic about letting Pierre walk. It blows my mind how many people think that would be a bad move.

 

2B, or at least a middle infielder of some sort, is the biggest need, aside from a solid starting pitcher. CF probably ranks 2nd on that list.

 

The Cubs are getting the 12th highest OPS out of CF among all NL teams. CF is a problem on the team. Letting Pierre walk is not creating a new hole, CF already is a hole. And since the only way to keep Pierre is to overpay him, you'd simply be maintaining a hole at a higher cost, probably longterm. LF has let the team down, but Murton should outproduce what the Cubs have gotten this year from that position. Pierre, on the other hand, can only be expected to maintain his poor production next year, and maybe even take a step back.

[cubfan1955]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Pie playing CF for the Cubs next year IF we have a manager with a clue. If we wait for everyone on this board to agree when he is ready to play in MLB he will still be in Iowa when he's 30 years old. Sometimes you just have to bring them up when you have the need. And he'd be a lot cheaper than the human groundball machine.

[goonys evil twin]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Pie playing CF for the Cubs next year IF we have a manager with a clue. If we wait for everyone on this board to agree when he is ready to play in MLB he will still be in Iowa when he's 30 years old. Sometimes you just have to bring them up when you have the need. And he'd be a lot cheaper than the human groundball machine.

 

I'm still hesitent on bringing him up in 2007. But if they put together a solid enough lineup so that Pie can hit 7th or 8th and not have any pressure to produce right away, I can live with it. It's certainly a better option than signing Pierre to a multi year deal.

[BigbadB]

Pierre needs to be gone. A guy with a .330 OBP and nearly 20 caught steals is a very poor option in the lead off spot. Pierre's runs scored for the season is proof that he's not a valuable player considering cost. If the Cubs did retain him (which I hope they don't), he most certainly shouldn't be batting lead off. 8th would make sense.

[goonys evil twin]

Pierre needs to be gone. A guy with a .330 OBP and nearly 20 caught steals is a very poor option in the lead off spot. Pierre's runs scored for the season is proof that he's not a valuable player considering cost. If the Cubs did retain him (which I hope they don't), he most certainly shouldn't be batting lead off. 8th would make sense.

 

Could you imagine this team with a $7-10m 8 hitter?

[BigbadB]

Pierre needs to be gone. A guy with a .330 OBP and nearly 20 caught steals is a very poor option in the lead off spot. Pierre's runs scored for the season is proof that he's not a valuable player considering cost. If the Cubs did retain him (which I hope they don't), he most certainly shouldn't be batting lead off. 8th would make sense.

 

Could you imagine this team with a $7-10m 8 hitter?

 

I couldn't imagine this team batting him anywhere other than lead off, which will only mean more years of poor production from the heart of the order.

 

Cubs have some of the worst OBP out of the top spots in the line up, and have had poor OBP the last several years.

 

Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla in Florida are making Cabrera's season look like a dream. If Pierre and Izturis/Perez/Bynum/etc... were batting 1/2 for the Marlins this year, no one would be talking about Cabrera's season.

 

Look at Cabrera's OBP. He's got a .430 OBP and 106 runs scored. Pierre has a .332 OBP and 75 runs scored. 75

 

Let someone else pay millions for a guy to bat lead off and not get on base enough. The Cubs have already mastered that. It's time to try something else.

[BigbadB]

And before someone blasts me for comparing Cabrera to Pierre, let me state that this is not what I'm doing.

 

I'm showing that a guy who gets on base over 40% of the time scores nearly 40% more than guys who get on base at the rate a guy like Pierre does. It's not rocket science.

 

With that said, the more often you can get guys on base in front of your most productive hitters (Lee, Ramirez), the more runs you will score.

[BigbadB]

Pierre is a guy who other teams may covet enough to sign prior to the arby deadline, which would allow the Cubs to grab more draft picks.

 

Even if the Cubs did offer arbitration, chances are good someone would give him a multi-year contract which would still give the Cubs draft picks. If he were to accept arbitration, you play him for another year in what will likely be a lost season anyway and look for opportunities to trade him and groom Pie.

[goonys evil twin]

With that said, the more often you can get guys on base in front of your most productive hitters (Lee, Ramirez), the more runs you will score.

 

That's only true if they are fast. Slower guys can't score.

[BigbadB]

With that said, the more often you can get guys on base in front of your most productive hitters (Lee, Ramirez), the more runs you will score.

 

That's only true if they are fast. Slower guys can't score.

 

Thanks for that, Mr. Sarcasm. :D

[Soul]

We've got a TON of holes to fill on this club. How many acquisitions do you think Hendry can realistically make? We need 3 starting pitchers, a closer, and another reliever. Then we need a LF, RF, 2B. That's 7 players. Now we should add CF into that mix? Sure, I'd like to overhaul the entire team with a million FA's too, but it's not realistic.

 

3 starting pitchers isn't going to happen. 2 at most. Closer isn't going to happen. Another reliever isn't going to happen. RF is most likely not going to happen, and there's no way that LF and RF is going to be replaced.

 

There's nothing unrealistic about letting Pierre walk. It blows my mind how many people think that would be a bad move.

 

2B, or at least a middle infielder of some sort, is the biggest need, aside from a solid starting pitcher. CF probably ranks 2nd on that list.

 

The Cubs are getting the 12th highest OPS out of CF among all NL teams. CF is a problem on the team. Letting Pierre walk is not creating a new hole, CF already is a hole. And since the only way to keep Pierre is to overpay him, you'd simply be maintaining a hole at a higher cost, probably longterm. LF has let the team down, but Murton should outproduce what the Cubs have gotten this year from that position. Pierre, on the other hand, can only be expected to maintain his poor production next year, and maybe even take a step back.

 

I'm not saying it's a bad move to replace Pierre with something better. Please don't lump me into that category....

 

I'm talking priorities. I think the pitching is a higher priority than CF, that's all. If we can't come up with some serious starting pitching this offseason, then IMO this team will be bad again in '07. Maybe that's just the way it's going to be.

 

No closer either? Dempster's not going to go back to what he was during his little run. He is what he is. Not much starting help and Dempster again next year? Look for a long season if that's the case.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not saying it's a bad move to replace Pierre with something better. Please don't lump me into that category....

 

I'm talking priorities. I think the pitching is a higher priority than CF, that's all. If we can't come up with some serious starting pitching this offseason, then IMO this team will be bad again in '07. Maybe that's just the way it's going to be.

 

No closer either? Dempster's not going to go back to what he was during his little run. He is what he is. Not much starting help and Dempster again next year? Look for a long season if that's the case.

 

I still can't understand why people bring up the idea of priorities when it comes to letting Pierre go. Pierre is not productive. Pierre costs a lot of money. Letting him walk is the smart thing to do. It's not a matter of moving CF up the list of priorities.

 

There's about 5 quality consistent closers in baseball, and none of them are available. The Cubs need to stop putting money into the bullpen, they've got more than enough dedicated to that department, and plenty of arms to shuffle in and out of there.

 

Starting pitching is a priority, yes. And it will be all the more easier if the Cubs let Pierre walk, and save that money to spend on a better pitcher.

[soccer10k]

I'm showing that a guy who gets on base over 40% of the time scores nearly 40% more than guys who get on base at the rate a guy like Pierre does. It's not rocket science.

 

Wait, wait, wait. Back up the train. You're telling me that if you get on base more, you are likely to score more often? Somebody take me to the hospital because you BigbadB just blew my mind. :D

[Soul]

I'm not saying it's a bad move to replace Pierre with something better. Please don't lump me into that category....

 

I'm talking priorities. I think the pitching is a higher priority than CF, that's all. If we can't come up with some serious starting pitching this offseason, then IMO this team will be bad again in '07. Maybe that's just the way it's going to be.

 

No closer either? Dempster's not going to go back to what he was during his little run. He is what he is. Not much starting help and Dempster again next year? Look for a long season if that's the case.

 

I still can't understand why people bring up the idea of priorities when it comes to letting Pierre go. Pierre is not productive. Pierre costs a lot of money. Letting him walk is the smart thing to do. It's not a matter of moving CF up the list of priorities.

 

There's about 5 quality consistent closers in baseball, and none of them are available. The Cubs need to stop putting money into the bullpen, they've got more than enough dedicated to that department, and plenty of arms to shuffle in and out of there.

 

Starting pitching is a priority, yes. And it will be all the more easier if the Cubs let Pierre walk, and save that money to spend on a better pitcher.

 

You think Hendry has enough bandwidth to search for a Pierre replacement, plus take care of the starting pitching?

 

Alright, if that's the case, then I won't mind. Like I said, I'm not happy with Pierre either. It seems like Hendry's been unable to get a whole lot done in the past couple offseasons. Maybe that's not indicative of what will happen this offseason.

[goonys evil twin]

You think Hendry has enough bandwidth to search for a Pierre replacement, plus take care of the starting pitching?

 

Alright, if that's the case, then I won't mind. Like I said, I'm not happy with Pierre either. It seems like Hendry's been unable to get a whole lot done in the past couple offseasons. Maybe that's not indicative of what will happen this offseason.

 

The current team is almost 100% different from the 2003 team. Hendry hasn't shown an ability to make the right decisions, but he's shown the ability to turnover the roster with multiple moves.

 

As a worst case scenario, you have Pie ready to step in. You already have Jones on the payroll and locked up.

 

I'm not asking Hendry to pull off a miracle, like trade for Cabrera (though that would be nice). Heck, I'm not really asking him to do anything. I'm just asking him to not make the mistake of resigning Pierre, like how he made the mistake of giving a raise to Alfonseca, resigning Rusch and Perez, and trading for Pierre in the first place. I'm asking for inaction at this point, doesn't really require much bandwidth.

[frostwyrm]

I really think Hendry has earmarked a big bag of cash for Pierre. He will overpay if necessary.

[goonys evil twin]

I really think Hendry has earmarked a big bag of cash for Pierre. He will overpay if necessary.

 

Heck, he'll overpay even if it isn't necessary.

[Banedon]

I really think Hendry has earmarked a big bag of cash for Pierre. He will overpay if necessary.

 

Heck, he'll overpay even if it isn't necessary.

 

But strangely, he didn't overpay for his #1 target last season, Furcal. I'm hoping Pierre asks for too much.

[frostwyrm]

I really think Hendry has earmarked a big bag of cash for Pierre. He will overpay if necessary.

 

Heck, he'll overpay even if it isn't necessary.

 

But strangely, he didn't overpay for his #1 target last season, Furcal. I'm hoping Pierre asks for too much.

Yeah but Hendry had Cedeno as a backup plan, and Hendry has shown he will tolerate all-glove no-hit players in the MIF. He will not tolerate 2 rookies in the OF next year, so Murton/Pie is not a likely plan A. Hendry also talks about leadoff like it's a position, so in his mind Pierre's departure would leave a big hole in the offense.

[goonys evil twin]

I really think Hendry has earmarked a big bag of cash for Pierre. He will overpay if necessary.

 

Heck, he'll overpay even if it isn't necessary.

 

But strangely, he didn't overpay for his #1 target last season, Furcal. I'm hoping Pierre asks for too much.

Yeah but Hendry had Cedeno as a backup plan, and Hendry has shown he will tolerate all-glove no-hit players in the MIF. He will not tolerate 2 rookies in the OF next year, so Murton/Pie is not a likely plan A. Hendry also talks about leadoff like it's a position, so in his mind Pierre's departure would leave a big hole in the offense.

 

Murton won't be a rookie anymore.