Happy Elimination Day

[goonys evil twin]

while I would like to improve on Pierre, he would not be my top priority. his .340-.350ish OBP isn't killing the cubs nearly as much as cedeno and izturis. plus, the rotation has to get substantially better. I would focus on those areas first. if need be, the cubs can play pie in CF and bat him 7th (if Izturis is on the team he has to bat 8th).

 

I would focus on a 2b and a corner outfielder. once you have those two in house, you can decide what to do in the outfield.

 

frankly, I don't see a good way to keep pierre out there though. I would definitely not want to give him more than a one year deal and I see no reason he would accept that.

 

Juan has a .333 OBP, not .340-.350. He was at .326 last year. You can't assume he'll give you .340-.350.

 

Furthermore, it doesn't make much sense to compare him to Cedeno and Izturis. Izturis is signed through next year, while Cedeno costs peanuts and is easily replacable. Izturis will be in the lineup. Juan Pierre is a free agent, which means the Cubs can let him go, which they should. Signing him would be asinine. You don't have to focus on anything to let him walk. You're already screwed by having Izturis out there, there is no reason to make it worse by keeping Pierre out there.

[Guest]

it doesn't make sense to focus your offseason on replacing pierre. this team needs vast improvements at 3 or 4 positions. I would attack 2b first and then look for a big power upgrade second. focusing on pierre just doesn't make sense in a vacuum. sure I want an upgrade in CF - but who is it going to be?

 

that maddux trade just makes me sick. the more I think about being stuck with izturis, the more I want to vomit.

[goonys evil twin]

it doesn't make sense to focus your offseason on replacing pierre. this team needs vast improvements at 3 or 4 positions. I would attack 2b first and then look for a big power upgrade second. focusing on pierre just doesn't make sense in a vacuum. sure I want an upgrade in CF - but who is it going to be?

 

You don't have to focus on replacing him. Just don't resign him, then shift Jones to CF.

 

And since when can you only make 2 moves in an offseason? Jim's a big boy, he better be able to handle thoughts about multiple holes, since he created them. The focus of the offseason should be on getting better. More specifically, better utilizing resources. With that in mind, resigning Pierre would just makes things worse, and make the rest of your job more difficult. Locking into mediocrity, or worse, whether it's for 1 year or more, is never a good idea.

[Guest]

it doesn't make sense to focus your offseason on replacing pierre. this team needs vast improvements at 3 or 4 positions. I would attack 2b first and then look for a big power upgrade second. focusing on pierre just doesn't make sense in a vacuum. sure I want an upgrade in CF - but who is it going to be?

 

You don't have to focus on replacing him. Just don't resign him, then shift Jones to CF.

 

And since when can you only make 2 moves in an offseason? Jim's a big boy, he better be able to handle thoughts about multiple holes, since he created them. The focus of the offseason should be on getting better. More specifically, better utilizing resources. With that in mind, resigning Pierre would just makes things worse, and make the rest of your job more difficult. Locking into mediocrity, or worse, whether it's for 1 year or more, is never a good idea.

 

yea, but you have to view the complete picture. I don't think Jim does this well. He focuses on one or two things and then fills in the rest. The Cubs need a coherent plan - they need to look at resources and prioritize needs. The worrisome thing is Hendry has terrible fall back options at three positions and mediocre ones at two more. this team needs an overhaul not a few tweaks. to me, an overhaul means bringing in a couple big guns (Drew, Soriano types) or rehabbing at several spots. if pierre is your #8 hitter, then you are doing ok. if jones is your #8 hitter, even better. jim should be asking how do I make this lineup better as a whole rather than how do I improve this position.

[goonys evil twin]

yea, but you have to view the complete picture. I don't think Jim does this well. He focuses on one or two things and then fills in the rest. The Cubs need a coherent plan - they need to look at resources and prioritize needs. The worrisome thing is Hendry has terrible fall back options at three positions and mediocre ones at two more. this team needs an overhaul not a few tweaks. to me, an overhaul means bringing in a couple big guns (Drew, Soriano types) or rehabbing at several spots. if pierre is your #8 hitter, then you are doing ok. if jones is your #8 hitter, even better. jim should be asking how do I make this lineup better as a whole rather than how do I improve this position.

 

Juan Pierre would never be the #8 hitter on this team.

 

You seem to be switching back and forth to abstract and specifics, and from what the Cubs should do, and what is the best we can hope for with Hendry.

 

Juan Pierre should not be on the 2007 Cubs. However you want want to explain it, that would be bad.

 

Not resigning Juan is an easy move to make, that doesn't require a dancing partner, or significant investment. It should be one of the first moves made, whether we're talking ideal world or Hendry world. Juan Pierre is a net drain on this team. At his inevitably higher cost, he will be an even bigger drain. You cannot bring him back if you care about improving the offense.

[Scott G. F.]

yea, but you have to view the complete picture. I don't think Jim does this well. He focuses on one or two things and then fills in the rest. The Cubs need a coherent plan - they need to look at resources and prioritize needs. The worrisome thing is Hendry has terrible fall back options at three positions and mediocre ones at two more. this team needs an overhaul not a few tweaks. to me, an overhaul means bringing in a couple big guns (Drew, Soriano types) or rehabbing at several spots. if pierre is your #8 hitter, then you are doing ok. if jones is your #8 hitter, even better. jim should be asking how do I make this lineup better as a whole rather than how do I improve this position.

 

Juan Pierre would never be the #8 hitter on this team.

 

You seem to be switching back and forth to abstract and specifics, and from what the Cubs should do, and what is the best we can hope for with Hendry.

 

Juan Pierre should not be on the 2007 Cubs. However you want want to explain it, that would be bad.

 

Not resigning Juan is an easy move to make, that doesn't require a dancing partner, or significant investment. It should be one of the first moves made, whether we're talking ideal world or Hendry world. Juan Pierre is a net drain on this team. At his inevitably higher cost, he will be an even bigger drain. You cannot bring him back if you care about improving the offense.

 

Okay we swing Jones around whom leads off? Now the Cubs are right back in the No leadoff hitter mode again. Great.

[Guest]

yea, but you have to view the complete picture. I don't think Jim does this well. He focuses on one or two things and then fills in the rest. The Cubs need a coherent plan - they need to look at resources and prioritize needs. The worrisome thing is Hendry has terrible fall back options at three positions and mediocre ones at two more. this team needs an overhaul not a few tweaks. to me, an overhaul means bringing in a couple big guns (Drew, Soriano types) or rehabbing at several spots. if pierre is your #8 hitter, then you are doing ok. if jones is your #8 hitter, even better. jim should be asking how do I make this lineup better as a whole rather than how do I improve this position.

 

Juan Pierre would never be the #8 hitter on this team.

 

You seem to be switching back and forth to abstract and specifics, and from what the Cubs should do, and what is the best we can hope for with Hendry.

 

Juan Pierre should not be on the 2007 Cubs. However you want want to explain it, that would be bad.

 

Not resigning Juan is an easy move to make, that doesn't require a dancing partner, or significant investment. It should be one of the first moves made, whether we're talking ideal world or Hendry world. Juan Pierre is a net drain on this team. At his inevitably higher cost, he will be an even bigger drain. You cannot bring him back if you care about improving the offense.

 

that simply isn't true. you can vastly improve this offense even with pierre as a leadoff hitter. you are overstating your case and seem to be obsessed with how bad pierre is. what do you mean by "he will never be the #8 hitter on this team?" How do you know? In my first post I acknowledged that I don't see how Pierre can fit on to this team from a contractual standpoint. He shouldn't be the focus of the offseason though. 2b should be the first priority followed by a power corner outfielder. How things shake out in CF is of lesser importance. You have to build a lineup. Your statements are reminiscent of hendry's obsession with a leadoff hitter last winter. furthermore, you accuse me of wavering then do the exact same thing. create a lineup. tell us how you see the 2007 cubs. obsessing over pierre is pretty trite and well documented by now. give me a lineup, I'll analyze it for you. until you do that, you are just rehashing problems and not creating solutions.

[Guest]

yea, but you have to view the complete picture. I don't think Jim does this well. He focuses on one or two things and then fills in the rest. The Cubs need a coherent plan - they need to look at resources and prioritize needs. The worrisome thing is Hendry has terrible fall back options at three positions and mediocre ones at two more. this team needs an overhaul not a few tweaks. to me, an overhaul means bringing in a couple big guns (Drew, Soriano types) or rehabbing at several spots. if pierre is your #8 hitter, then you are doing ok. if jones is your #8 hitter, even better. jim should be asking how do I make this lineup better as a whole rather than how do I improve this position.

 

Juan Pierre would never be the #8 hitter on this team.

 

You seem to be switching back and forth to abstract and specifics, and from what the Cubs should do, and what is the best we can hope for with Hendry.

 

Juan Pierre should not be on the 2007 Cubs. However you want want to explain it, that would be bad.

 

Not resigning Juan is an easy move to make, that doesn't require a dancing partner, or significant investment. It should be one of the first moves made, whether we're talking ideal world or Hendry world. Juan Pierre is a net drain on this team. At his inevitably higher cost, he will be an even bigger drain. You cannot bring him back if you care about improving the offense.

 

Okay we swing Jones around whom leads off? Now the Cubs are right back in the No leadoff hitter mode again. Great.

 

scott, the single most important aspect of the cubs lineup is how many people are on base when lee and ramirez bat. this controls how many runs they will score more than any other factor. the first two guys need to get on base - find two players with high obps. 30 or 40 points of additional obp from these two spots amounts to about 50-100 runs over the season.

[goonys evil twin]

that simply isn't true. you can vastly improve this offense even with pierre as a leadoff hitter. you are overstating your case and seem to be obsessed with how bad pierre is. what do you mean by "he will never be the #8 hitter on this team?" How do you know? In my first post I acknowledged that I don't see how Pierre can fit on to this team from a contractual standpoint. He shouldn't be the focus of the offseason though. 2b should be the first priority followed by a power corner outfielder. How things shake out in CF is of lesser importance. You have to build a lineup. Your statements are reminiscent of hendry's obsession with a leadoff hitter last winter. furthermore, you accuse me of wavering then do the exact same thing. create a lineup. tell us how you see the 2007 cubs. obsessing over pierre is pretty trite and well documented by now. give me a lineup, I'll analyze it for you. until you do that, you are just rehashing problems and not creating solutions.

 

I'm not ready to state my case for a full lineup.

 

I don't need much support, however, to scoff at the idiocy of resigning Juan Pierre to the type of contract he will get.

 

There's a big difference between obsessing over getting a specific player, or specific stereotype player, and simply letting a free agent walk. It's not something you need to focus energy on, it's not something you need to put effort into. It's not something you need to invest resources in. You simply let him walk. The 2B priority is in no way related to the situation.

 

 

Juan Pierre would never be the #8 hitter on this team because as long as he is on the team he will be the leadoff hitter on this team. Because that's the way "you're supposed to do it". The Hendry way.

[Guest]

under the hendry way, you might as well pencil him in at leadoff then and move on to how to win with him.

[Guest]

2b is related because of the financial constraints and because of the type of hitters involved. if you go with pierre in cf, you need more power at 2b.

[goonys evil twin]

2b is related because of the financial constraints and because of the type of hitters involved. if you go with pierre in cf, you need more power at 2b.

 

And if you go with Pierre in CF, you'll have much less financial flexibility to get that power.

[Guest]

and if you replace cedeno and izturis, you can afford to play pie in cf. that is the direction I would go.

[goonys evil twin]

and if you replace cedeno and izturis, you can afford to play pie in cf. that is the direction I would go.

 

Well, I'd do what I could to not have to use Pie, but I wouldn't be opposed if the options were slim.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

yea, but you have to view the complete picture. I don't think Jim does this well. He focuses on one or two things and then fills in the rest. The Cubs need a coherent plan - they need to look at resources and prioritize needs. The worrisome thing is Hendry has terrible fall back options at three positions and mediocre ones at two more. this team needs an overhaul not a few tweaks. to me, an overhaul means bringing in a couple big guns (Drew, Soriano types) or rehabbing at several spots. if pierre is your #8 hitter, then you are doing ok. if jones is your #8 hitter, even better. jim should be asking how do I make this lineup better as a whole rather than how do I improve this position.

 

Juan Pierre would never be the #8 hitter on this team.

 

You seem to be switching back and forth to abstract and specifics, and from what the Cubs should do, and what is the best we can hope for with Hendry.

 

Juan Pierre should not be on the 2007 Cubs. However you want want to explain it, that would be bad.

 

Not resigning Juan is an easy move to make, that doesn't require a dancing partner, or significant investment. It should be one of the first moves made, whether we're talking ideal world or Hendry world. Juan Pierre is a net drain on this team. At his inevitably higher cost, he will be an even bigger drain. You cannot bring him back if you care about improving the offense.

 

Okay we swing Jones around whom leads off? Now the Cubs are right back in the No leadoff hitter mode again. Great.

 

I think Murton would make an acceptable lead-off hitter. If the Cubs could swing a trade for Marcus Giles, he'd be acceptable at lead-off as would Ray Durham.

[Guest]

Giles would be very good. we need two good on base guys. giles and murton? that would require a power hitter in cf though. soriano?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Giles would be very good. we need two good on base guys. giles and murton? that would require a power hitter in cf though. soriano?

 

Well, if Jones is in CF, how about acquiring Giles and then signing Sheffield to play RF.

 

Here's the line-up:

 

2b Giles

LF Murton

1b Lee

RF Sheffield

3b Ramirez

C Barrett

CF Jones

SS Izturis

[NCCubFan]

The celebration for being eliminated from the Wild Card will have to wait at least one day. The Cubs had to lose ant the Padres win, and exactly the opposite happened. The bubbly is back on ice.

[UMFan83]

The celebration for being eliminated from the Wild Card will have to wait at least one day. The Cubs had to lose ant the Padres win, and exactly the opposite happened. The bubbly is back on ice.

 

Key win to stay alive. Not only that but we gain a game in the standings.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Giles would be very good. we need two good on base guys. giles and murton? that would require a power hitter in cf though. soriano?

 

Well, if Jones is in CF, how about acquiring Giles and then signing Sheffield to play RF.

 

Vance, I'm sorry but I cannot get behind the Jacque to CF theory you have going. I understand the theory, but that would be based on the Cubs actually landing either Jose Guillen/Gary Sheffield/Tort Nixon, and after those three, the pickings for RF includes the likes of Jeromy Burnity, and a LFer Moises Alou. And seeing as I don't see the Cubs landing one of thoese legit RF, I can say is moving Jones from RF to CF, all that does is move the hole in the offense over a spot. We'd still need to find a solid hitter for RF.

 

I would rather try and sign with Mike Cameron, Dave Roberts or Kenny Lofton for CF, and unfortunately keep Jones in RF (unless some team wants him).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

An alternative to putting Jacque in CF would be to work to acquire Andruw Jones from the Braves. Having Andruw's power in CF would make up for some of the power we lack on the corners.

 

But I doubt we have the bullets to pry both Jones and Giles away from the Braves, so in that scenario a new 2b would be needed other than Giles.

 

If the team feels uncomfortable with Murton leading off, then Durham could be the answer. Another interesting idea would be Jeff Kent. He's old, but still relatively productive and will be a FA. The Cubs probably could get him on a one year deal as well.

[NCCubFan]

As a result of the Cubs losing and Padres winning tonight, the Cubs are now officially eliminated from the Wild Card race as well. Wait 'til next year.

[Chris]

As a result of the Cubs losing and Padres winning tonight, the Cubs are now officially eliminated from the Wild Card race as well. Wait 'til next year.

 

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/chicago_dusty_fans.jpg

[NCCubFan]

As a result of the Cubs losing and Padres winning tonight, the Cubs are now officially eliminated from the Wild Card race as well. Wait 'til next year.

 

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/chicago_dusty_fans.jpg

Ah, the good old days. I remember having that sentiment myself back then.

 

I have seen the error of my ways.

[soccer10k]

4-12 for the rest of the year is all I ask for.