How long would it take to restock our minor league system?

[illiniguy]

I love following and going to minor league games. With the way our system has regressed recently I wonder, how long would it take to get our minor league system back up to the level that it would take to sustain a competitive team? Is it a quick 2-3 year fix? Or is it a process that would take the better part of a decade?

[Guest]

I think that depends what you mean by fixed. the team can select a handful of great prospects in 2 or 3 years and as far as the major league team is concerned, that is fixed. to field competitive teams across the minors might take a little longer.

 

That being said, it wasn't too long ago that teams like Arizona and the Dodgers were said to have nothing in the minors.

[illiniguy]

I think that depends what you mean by fixed. the team can select a handful of great prospects in 2 or 3 years and as far as the major league team is concerned, that is fixed. to field competitive teams across the minors might take a little longer.

 

That being said, it wasn't too long ago that teams like Arizona and the Dodgers were said to have nothing in the minors.

 

Right thats what I was thinking. I am hoping this year we pick a hitter with our first pick. I realize a lot of this is moot if we don't change the philosophy within the system of walks are bad.

[Guest]

I think that depends what you mean by fixed. the team can select a handful of great prospects in 2 or 3 years and as far as the major league team is concerned, that is fixed. to field competitive teams across the minors might take a little longer.

 

That being said, it wasn't too long ago that teams like Arizona and the Dodgers were said to have nothing in the minors.

 

Right thats what I was thinking. I am hoping this year we pick a hitter with our first pick. I realize a lot of this is moot if we don't change the philosophy within the system of walks are bad.

 

that goes right down to the draft - hopefully the cubs pick some hitters with baseball skills and not just tools.

[illiniguy]

I think that depends what you mean by fixed. the team can select a handful of great prospects in 2 or 3 years and as far as the major league team is concerned, that is fixed. to field competitive teams across the minors might take a little longer.

 

That being said, it wasn't too long ago that teams like Arizona and the Dodgers were said to have nothing in the minors.

 

Right thats what I was thinking. I am hoping this year we pick a hitter with our first pick. I realize a lot of this is moot if we don't change the philosophy within the system of walks are bad.

 

that goes right down to the draft - hopefully the cubs pick some hitters with baseball skills and not just tools.

How does one identify these traits in high school hitters? I mean one could argue a talented player would never need to walk at all in highschool and still be very, very productive. Maybe that hitter has plate discipline, but is just so overtalented it is hard to see. Ala CPATT.

[Mephistopheles]

Invest more in the latin market. The Red Sox and Dodgers have good farm systems now because of extra picks in the first and second rounds. With that going away the international market's the way to buy them up.

 

One thing to do in the draft is to spend a lot of money on tough signs late in drafts. We have done that this season with Chris Huseby and Drew Rundle. Every year there are 5 or so top 100 HS prospects that last to the 10th round or later because of signability. Meeting their bonus demands is a quick way to restock the system. That's something the Yankees and Red Sox have done well with Lars Anderson, Dellin Betances, etc.

[illiniguy]

Invest more in the latin market. The Red Sox and Dodgers have good farm systems now because of extra picks in the first and second rounds. With that going away the international market's the way to buy them up.

 

One thing to do in the draft is to spend a lot of money on tough signs late in drafts. We have done that this season with Chris Huseby and Drew Rundle. Every year there are 5 or so top 100 HS prospects that last to the 10th round or later because of signability. Meeting their bonus demands is a quick way to restock the system. That's something the Yankees and Red Sox have done well with Lars Anderson, Dellin Betances, etc.

So if Ramirez was to walk, would we then get compensation through the draft for him? If so isn't his actually what we should want? I mean odds are we won't really compete with him here(as long as Hendry is running things) so why not hope he and Pierre both leave and stock the picks?

[Mephistopheles]

Actually rumors are that the new CBA will take away compensation picks entirely.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Actually rumors are that the new CBA will take away compensation picks entirely.

 

WOW...that would be a change.

 

 

i could see a far more active FA market.

[JeffH]

Scouting and player procurement is average.

 

Player development is garbage.

[WrigleyField 22]

I think that depends what you mean by fixed. the team can select a handful of great prospects in 2 or 3 years and as far as the major league team is concerned, that is fixed. to field competitive teams across the minors might take a little longer.

 

That being said, it wasn't too long ago that teams like Arizona and the Dodgers were said to have nothing in the minors.

 

Right thats what I was thinking. I am hoping this year we pick a hitter with our first pick. I realize a lot of this is moot if we don't change the philosophy within the system of walks are bad.

 

that goes right down to the draft - hopefully the cubs pick some hitters with baseball skills and not just tools.

 

If we got the right instructors that teach a better baseball philosophy wouldn't it make more sense to go for tools in many cases because you could teach them the baseball skills? With our philosophy the way it is now, I would want the guys with baseball skills because we know they wont learn it through the system. A guy with good tools who is taught good baseball skills seems more valuable than a guy who has good baseball skills and is taught more good baseball skills.

[NorthsideAvenger]

I love following and going to minor league games. With the way our system has regressed recently I wonder, how long would it take to get our minor league system back up to the level that it would take to sustain a competitive team? Is it a quick 2-3 year fix? Or is it a process that would take the better part of a decade?

 

How to fixed a farm system?

 

There, IMO, are 3 steps:

 

1: Draft and developed your own players.

2: Make astutue trades. (like the Marlins have done)

3: Sign international prospects (like a Larry Suarez, as the Cubs have done)

 

If said franchise can do all three of these steps, and do it properly, a team's farm system can be replinshed very quickly.

 

And while most, think the Cubs are light on the system, I think there is more underdeveloped talent in the Cubs system, then meets the eyes. So, I don't think the Cubs farm is as bad as some say, I think a little luck, and a little actually developing, and this system could return to the solid depths (around the 10-14 best in the majors) within a yr.

[Guest]

I think it's quite possible to field a championship team at the major league level in 2007 (and forward) and also restock the farm system by 2009. This will be particularly true if the FA compensation system goes away.

 

All it would take is two good drafts, some improvements in player development and a strong push on international signings.

[illiniguy]

I think it's quite possible to field a championship team at the major league level in 2007 (and forward) and also restock the farm system by 2009. This will be particularly true if the FA compensation system goes away.

 

All it would take is two good drafts, some improvements in player development and a strong push on international signings.

I hope you are right, the compensation picks are the only thing that keeps the Yankees from dominating baseball though. Now they will have the best prospects and players.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think it's quite possible to field a championship team at the major league level in 2007 (and forward) and also restock the farm system by 2009. This will be particularly true if the FA compensation system goes away.

 

All it would take is two good drafts, some improvements in player development and a strong push on international signings.

 

While it is entirely possible, we all have better odds at winning the lottery.

[JeffH]

I think it's quite possible to field a championship team at the major league level in 2007 (and forward) and also restock the farm system by 2009. This will be particularly true if the FA compensation system goes away.

 

All it would take is two good drafts, some improvements in player development and a strong push on international signings.

 

Are you hopped up on the dope?

[UBlink]

I think it's quite possible to field a championship team at the major league level in 2007 (and forward) and also restock the farm system by 2009. This will be particularly true if the FA compensation system goes away.

 

All it would take is two good drafts, some improvements in player development and a strong push on international signings.

 

Are you hopped up on the dope?

 

Understatement perhaps?

[UK1679666180]

I think it's quite possible to field a championship team at the major league level in 2007 (and forward) and also restock the farm system by 2009. This will be particularly true if the FA compensation system goes away.

 

All it would take is two good drafts, some improvements in player development and a strong push on international signings.

 

Are you hopped up on the dope?

 

Understatement perhaps?

 

What the improvements in player development or Tim being "hopped up on dope"? :)

[Guest]

Major league level:

 

1) We're not nearly as bad as we look this year.

2) With the budget the Cubs have and the money available this offseason, the improvements needed to become a championship level team are within reach. While the Cubs don't have the blue chips to trade, they do have a lot of pieces others will be interested in.

3) The offense can become a good offense with two acquisitions. A top OF player (could be a CF or RF, pushing Jones to CF) and a second baseman.

4) The pitching has been as bad as the hitting this year, but that can also be easily changed. The addition of a Schmidt or Zito would solidify the top of the rotation, Hill slots in at the #3 spot, add an innings guy at #4 and either have one of the kids step up or Prior can fill that spot if he's healthy (and if he's healthy, it's likely a very good rotation..

 

Minor League Level:

 

1) If the compensation picks go away, the Cubs should draft in the top 3 of the first round and will have nearly another first rounder since the supplemental picks will go away.

2) The system currently has decent depth of potential big leaguers. What is missing is the star power. The top picks this year could change that quickly, as could a strong push in the international market.

 

 

Do I think this will be done? No.

 

But I think it should very well within reach this offseason given the resources at the team's disposal.

[Guest]

the question is whether plate discipline can be taught or not. that is still up for debate but a lot of evidence points to generally not. the cubs have the resources to draft some toolsy high schoolers and see what happens though.

[sporrer17]

With a top 3 pick coming in '07 and quite a few "major league caliber" players already floating around AA/AAA, the system is not in terrible shape as is. Like Tim said above, we have quite a few guys capable of contributing in the big leagues...just not many "impact" players. No Miguel Cabrera's...or Ryan Howard's...

 

We have lots and lots of upper level pitching, and a few potential top-of-the-rotation guys in the system. Pawelek, Veal, and Gallagher are the cream of the crop as far as our pitchers go, and probably make up 3/4ths of our top 4 prospects.

 

We have 1 'big time' bat...Felix Pie. Dope has been injured...but looked good in spring training. Harvey had a monster 2nd half, but still hasn't put up a respectable AVG/OBP combo.

 

Basically...if we add one "blue chip" guy (which we should with the #1-3 pick) and a few other solid hitters over the next year or two, we can have a very solid system.

[craig]

Farms turn over very quickly. The reputation of a farm system depends in significant part on their supply of upper-level high-talent prospects. But those guys either graduate quickly or lose their luster quickly. So teams that are rated real high one year can often drop quickly. conversely a couple of good drafts in a row can jump a team up very quickly from middle or bottom third into top ten very quickly.

 

So how long does it need to take for the Cub farm get back into BA's Top Ten? Not very long at all. With a top-3 pick next year, if they do well next year, and the draft thereafter, they could be back in the top tier. Obviously the outcome of this year's draft is also crucial. samardzija could go football, Colvin could be just a guy, Huseby could be a bust . But if Sam goes baseball and progresses; if Huseby proves healthy and good, and if Colvin progresses, this could go down as an excellent draft. But who knows, at this point?

 

Huseby, Sam, and Pawelek are three pitchers the Cubs valued a lot. Two years from now, if all three are full-time baseball, all three are healthy, and all three are progressing, plus you pick up Price or Braxton or somebody like that next draft, it's possible that the Cub pitching will look terrific.

 

Who knows? It needn't take long.

 

Of course, the same is true for most all organizations. 2-3 back-to-back-to-back successful drafts and the last can become first. No great reason to think that the Cubs are especially likely to identify the right guys, or have the guys they choose stay healthy, or any of that.

 

Other note: we talk about "system" and all that. But the number of top-level players that even the best system produces is pretty small. So the actual production that a farm will get in terms of big-league value is somewhat unpredictable. Quantity means quality, it's said. But one Pujols outweighs a dozen Farnsworth/Chaison/Kelton/Goldbach/Patterson/Christensen/Beltran/Brendan Harris/Cruz/Wellemeyer/Mitre/Leiecester/Prior types.

 

So you never know. There are dozens of prospects who look much more exciting than Patterson or Moore, and dozens more who have as good a shot as they do of ever being quality players. But some B prospects do end up being solid, useful players. Maybe one of those two guys will be one of the few B's who does, and who ends up being better than most of the A prospects in the game? It may not be likely, but it's possible.

[goonys evil twin]

In a thread about restocking the minor league system, I would just like to point out that MacPhail has had over a dozen years to turn things around, and Hendry has been there most of the time. Andy came in and saw an entire organization in turmoil, with crap for a minor league system and practically zero major league talent. He's failed miserably with the "draft and develop pitchers, trade for bats later" strategy. With the resources the Cubs have, they should be able to win 90+ games in 2007 and improve the farm system. By 2008 they should be a dominant franchise. But going off more than a decade of proof, there's little to no hope this actually happens.

[USSoccer]

In a thread about restocking the minor league system, I would just like to point out that MacPhail has had over a dozen years to turn things around, and Hendry has been there most of the time. Andy came in and saw an entire organization in turmoil, with crap for a minor league system and practically zero major league talent. He's failed miserably with the "draft and develop pitchers, trade for bats later" strategy. With the resources the Cubs have, they should be able to win 90+ games in 2007 and improve the farm system. By 2008 they should be a dominant franchise. But going off more than a decade of proof, there's little to no hope this actually happens.

 

The "develop arms and then trade them for bats" isn't a bad idea, but it's his GM that has held onto his arms much, much longer than he should have. Juan Cruz for one should have been dealt before 2003 if he wasn't going to be used, when he still had good value.

[goonys evil twin]

In a thread about restocking the minor league system, I would just like to point out that MacPhail has had over a dozen years to turn things around, and Hendry has been there most of the time. Andy came in and saw an entire organization in turmoil, with crap for a minor league system and practically zero major league talent. He's failed miserably with the "draft and develop pitchers, trade for bats later" strategy. With the resources the Cubs have, they should be able to win 90+ games in 2007 and improve the farm system. By 2008 they should be a dominant franchise. But going off more than a decade of proof, there's little to no hope this actually happens.

 

The "develop arms and then trade them for bats" isn't a bad idea, but it's his GM that has held onto his arms much, much longer than he should have. Juan Cruz for one should have been dealt before 2003 if he wasn't going to be used, when he still had good value.

 

I think it's a bad idea. Arms are inconsistent and unreliable. It's nice to develop a lot of them, but it's necessary to develop position players. By going into it with almost a complete disregard for position players, the Cubs were doomed to carry on the tradition of non development.