2007...

[stitchface]

exactly snood. frankly I have seen nothing here that indicates how this team can be overhauled to compete for the world series in one year. to do that would take tremendous creativity and risk. everyone would be available including lee and zambrano. I don't hendry doing anything close to what it would take.

[goonys evil twin]

exactly snood. frankly I have seen nothing here that indicates how this team can be overhauled to compete for the world series in one year. to do that would take tremendous creativity and risk. everyone would be available including lee and zambrano. I don't hendry doing anything close to what it would take.

 

It really wouldn't take that much creativity. Resign Aramis, sign a couple decent starting pitchers, convince Florida to trade Aramis for the farm, and you've got a pretty darn good team.

 

I have my doubts that Hendry could pull it off. But I completely disregard the thought that it can't be done.

[Lefty]

exactly snood. frankly I have seen nothing here that indicates how this team can be overhauled to compete for the world series in one year. to do that would take tremendous creativity and risk. everyone would be available including lee and zambrano. I don't hendry doing anything close to what it would take.

 

It really wouldn't take that much creativity. Resign Aramis, sign a couple decent starting pitchers, convince Florida to trade Aramis for the farm, and you've got a pretty darn good team.

 

I have my doubts that Hendry could pull it off. But I completely disregard the thought that it can't be done.

 

Did you mean Cabrera? And do you trust Hendry from here to there?

[goonys evil twin]

exactly snood. frankly I have seen nothing here that indicates how this team can be overhauled to compete for the world series in one year. to do that would take tremendous creativity and risk. everyone would be available including lee and zambrano. I don't hendry doing anything close to what it would take.

 

It really wouldn't take that much creativity. Resign Aramis, sign a couple decent starting pitchers, convince Florida to trade Aramis for the farm, and you've got a pretty darn good team.

 

I have my doubts that Hendry could pull it off. But I completely disregard the thought that it can't be done.

 

Did you mean Cabrera? And do you trust Hendry from here to there?

 

oops.

 

Do I trust him? Not at all. My point is that I disagree with the notion that it can't be done, or that it would take a crazy amount of moves. I really don't think it's that hard, even though I have no confidence in Hendry to pull it off.

[stitchface]

I think the Cubs need a significant overhaul at a lot of positions. That means a lot of moves to fill those holes - or at the minimum one huge move (like Cabrera). That kind of action is going to require creativity, planning, and foresight. You seem to be trivializing the requirements as if they are obvious.

 

I think the Cubs need to come up with a plan on how to build a winning team with disregard to the current roster. Then use the current roster to fill the needs either by plugging someone in or by trade. I no longer believe they can build a winner by building around the current roster. There are pieces here but I don't see how they are going to fill the holes around them.

[Master Shake]

At this point, I'd be happy with sacking the entire management / coaching staff, and getting replacements and then see what happens.

[NCCubFan]

I think the Cubs need a significant overhaul at a lot of positions.

First and foremost, those positions are General Manager, Manager, Pitching Coach, and Hitting Coach. I wouldn't mind upgrades at the positions of President and Owner either.

[third eye]

Hi all. This is my first post to this board, but I have been a reader for a while. I thought I'd offer my perspective.

 

First of all, the OBP issue with this team has obviously been a hot topic of conversation. While I agree that it is a problem, and has been for the past several years, there are some counterpoints. I believe someone on this board pointed out that while OBP is a big thing, its not the only thing. The White Sox last year were not a good OBP team. What I found more surprising is that the post-allstar break Cubs of 2003 had an OBP of only .313. Pretty awful, even by this year's standards. Yet that was probably the best stretch of baseball I have seen out of the Cubs over the past 15 years. The reason I highlight this is that I dont have a problem with Pierre as our leadoff man. His .280/.330 line is fine with me and I do believe his speed is a difference maker. Another data point here is that Edgar Renteria was less than a .330 OBP leadoff hitter for the 2004 (105 win) Cardinals. I dont think he is our problem.

 

I also dont want to sacrifice Matt Murton for Carlos Lee. I'm not sure about paying $10-$12 million for him when I think our resources are better spent on pitching. If we could trade Jaque Jones for a prospect or two, I'd be thrilled with signing him (at a net payroll increase of only 6-8 million). My point here is that the offense is not the core of the problem for the Cubs. Since the allstar break, they are a respectable 6th in the NL in offense. With DLee back next year, and with an upgrade at 2nd (I'd love to find a way to trade for Freel), I think the offense would be enough to contend, assuming we could buy better starting pitching on the free agent market. If budget constraints weren't an issue, I'd definitely say go after Lee and play Jones off the bench. But we dont have Steinbrenner opening his wallet here. I'm just trying to be realistic.

 

I think this is the real key to the offseason. We need to get a top-line starting pitcher and a 200+ innings middle rotation guy. I am firmly in the Zito camp. Yes, I know he is a flyball pitcher and that could be tough at Wrigley. But the age and durablility give him the edge over Schmidt in my eyes. The only realistic chance the Cubs have at getting him, though, is if the Yankees become preoccupied with a bidding war for the Japanese pitcher being posted (I forget his name). If we cant get Zito, We have to overpay for Schmidt. Risky since it sounds like he wants to go to Seattle. Some have suggested Gil Meche as the mid-rotation guy. I'm not thrilled with that idea personally. He hasn't crossed the 200 inning mark yet. Honestly, I'd rather give Greg Maddux a 1 year contract at $7 million. Looks like he will end up with better numbers this year than last. For the end of the rotation, Rich Hill really does seem to have become a major league pitcher this year, though I'll say that with guarded optimism. I remember thinking the same thing about Jeremy Gonzalez in the late 90s. In any case, if you look back at the most successful teams over the past several years, you'll see once common thread. All have had at least 3 starters throwing 200+ innings and most have had 4. You can see the effects all of this year's non-quality starts are having on our bullpen now. I think depending on Prior again will be a mistake, but I can live with Hill and Marshall at the back of the rotation.

 

I know this doesnt look drastically different than the team that will lose 95+ games this year, but I think a full year of a much improved Hill and a Zito/Schmidt starting 40% of our games will make a huge differnce. Add a full year of a healthy Lee, and we may have something going here. Add a somewhat productive 2nd baseman (unfortunately, I dont think we'll get Soriano) and the Cubs will look like a real team.

 

Sorry to be so long-winded. I look forward to my first official virtual tongue lashing on this board. Hopefully at least some of you will agree with me. For those of you who dont, be gentle....

[wolf stansson]

I know this doesnt look drastically different than the team that will lose 95+ games this year, but I think a full year of a much improved Hill and a Zito/Schmidt starting 40% of our games will make a huge differnce. Add a full year of a healthy Lee, and we may have something going here. Add a somewhat productive 2nd baseman (unfortunately, I dont think we'll get Soriano) and the Cubs will look like a real team.

I agree with you.

 

The Cubs honestly don't have to look drastically different. A healthy Lee, a possibly healthy Prior, further-developed Hill and a #2 starter could contend for the Central. Unless something happens in the offseason that is unexpected, the Central will be very winnable next year to the Cubs, Cards, Brewers, Reds, and possibly Astros (sorry Jake).

 

I don't have much faith in Cardinals ownership to do anything worth a damn, and I think Hendry has something to prove.

[TruffleShuffle]

I know this doesnt look drastically different than the team that will lose 95+ games this year, but I think a full year of a much improved Hill and a Zito/Schmidt starting 40% of our games will make a huge differnce. Add a full year of a healthy Lee, and we may have something going here. Add a somewhat productive 2nd baseman (unfortunately, I dont think we'll get Soriano) and the Cubs will look like a real team.

I agree with you.

 

The Cubs honestly don't have to look drastically different. A healthy Lee, a possibly healthy Prior, further-developed Hill and a #2 starter could contend for the Central. Unless something happens in the offseason that is unexpected, the Central will be very winnable next year to the Cubs, Cards, Brewers, Reds, and possibly Astros (sorry Jake).

 

I don't have much faith in Cardinals ownership to do anything worth a damn, and I think Hendry has something to prove.

 

The Cardinals don't have to do all that much worth a damn. They're already competitive. But, they do have to replace the production that Edmonds gave them. Oh, and Jason Marquis sucks and should be gone after this year.

[waffle]

right on 3rd eye.

 

Yes this team stinks record wise.

 

Yes the chemistry is aweful

 

what you indicated is almost exactly what I said. 1 good FA pitcher, 1 old, fat savvy innings guy. Figure out what the plan is for 2nd/ss. Izzy and Ced? O.k., well make sure Ced gets alot of time in the offseason to work on that (and his hitting). Send Jones to Japan. Resign Pierre. Let Murton develop.

 

That is even a pretty good defensive team.

 

Add a new manager (the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT STEP) and this team could compete.

[soapy]

Hi all. This is my first post to this board, but I have been a reader for a while. I thought I'd offer my perspective.

 

Welcome!

 

First of all, the OBP issue with this team has obviously been a hot topic of conversation. While I agree that it is a problem, and has been for the past several years, there are some counterpoints. I believe someone on this board pointed out that while OBP is a big thing, its not the only thing. The White Sox last year were not a good OBP team. What I found more surprising is that the post-allstar break Cubs of 2003 had an OBP of only .313. Pretty awful, even by this year's standards. Yet that was probably the best stretch of baseball I have seen out of the Cubs over the past 15 years. The reason I highlight this is that I dont have a problem with Pierre as our leadoff man. His .280/.330 line is fine with me and I do believe his speed is a difference maker. Another data point here is that Edgar Renteria was less than a .330 OBP leadoff hitter for the 2004 (105 win) Cardinals. I dont think he is our problem.

 

I think you have some faulty logic here. You're comparison to the White Sox (2005) is not accurate to me. They still had a lot of SLG and absolutely outstanding pitching. That was enough to overcome their weak OBP. The Cubs don't have that. The Cardinalls (2004) comparison also doesn't hold much water to me because the rest of that lineup was stacked. It was more then enough to make up for any problems with Renteria's poor OBP. The 2003 Cubs had absolutely dominant pitching in the second half of the season. That is what got them to the playoffs, along with the Astros choking. IMO, Pierre will be vastly overpaid for what he provides (speed, and that's about it).

 

I also dont want to sacrifice Matt Murton for Carlos Lee. I'm not sure about paying $10-$12 million for him when I think our resources are better spent on pitching.

Agreed.

 

I think this is the real key to the offseason. We need to get a top-line starting pitcher and a 200+ innings middle rotation guy. I am firmly in the Zito camp. Yes, I know he is a flyball pitcher and that could be tough at Wrigley. But the age and durablility give him the edge over Schmidt in my eyes. The only realistic chance the Cubs have at getting him, though, is if the Yankees become preoccupied with a bidding war for the Japanese pitcher being posted (I forget his name). If we cant get Zito, We have to overpay for Schmidt. Risky since it sounds like he wants to go to Seattle. Some have suggested Gil Meche as the mid-rotation guy. I'm not thrilled with that idea personally. He hasn't crossed the 200 inning mark yet. Honestly, I'd rather give Greg Maddux a 1 year contract at $7 million. Looks like he will end up with better numbers this year than last. For the end of the rotation, Rich Hill really does seem to have become a major league pitcher this year, though I'll say that with guarded optimism. I remember thinking the same thing about Jeremy Gonzalez in the late 90s. In any case, if you look back at the most successful teams over the past several years, you'll see once common thread. All have had at least 3 starters throwing 200+ innings and most have had 4. You can see the effects all of this year's non-quality starts are having on our bullpen now. I think depending on Prior again will be a mistake, but I can live with Hill and Marshall at the back of the rotation.

I would certainly agree with you that the starting rotation is certainly one of, and arguably the biggest problem area for the team as a whole. Having said that, I'm not really convinced that the rotation can be upgraded enough to compensate for the very poor offense the Cubs currently posses

 

I know this doesnt look drastically different than the team that will lose 95+ games this year, but I think a full year of a much improved Hill and a Zito/Schmidt starting 40% of our games will make a huge differnce. Add a full year of a healthy Lee, and we may have something going here. Add a somewhat productive 2nd baseman (unfortunately, I dont think we'll get Soriano) and the Cubs will look like a real team.

It's possible that team could compete, but I think you are banking on things that are not highly probable. Lee likely won't approach his 2005 numbers next year. Barrett is having a career year which he may never match again. I think you're still one injury away from looking at a very mediocre to poor offense again.

[Shawon12]

Hi all. This is my first post to this board, but I have been a reader for a while. I thought I'd offer my perspective.

 

First of all, the OBP issue with this team has obviously been a hot topic of conversation. While I agree that it is a problem, and has been for the past several years, there are some counterpoints. I believe someone on this board pointed out that while OBP is a big thing, its not the only thing. The White Sox last year were not a good OBP team. What I found more surprising is that the post-allstar break Cubs of 2003 had an OBP of only .313. Pretty awful, even by this year's standards. Yet that was probably the best stretch of baseball I have seen out of the Cubs over the past 15 years. The reason I highlight this is that I dont have a problem with Pierre as our leadoff man. His .280/.330 line is fine with me and I do believe his speed is a difference maker. Another data point here is that Edgar Renteria was less than a .330 OBP leadoff hitter for the 2004 (105 win) Cardinals. I dont think he is our problem.

 

I also dont want to sacrifice Matt Murton for Carlos Lee. I'm not sure about paying $10-$12 million for him when I think our resources are better spent on pitching. If we could trade Jaque Jones for a prospect or two, I'd be thrilled with signing him (at a net payroll increase of only 6-8 million). My point here is that the offense is not the core of the problem for the Cubs. Since the allstar break, they are a respectable 6th in the NL in offense. With DLee back next year, and with an upgrade at 2nd (I'd love to find a way to trade for Freel), I think the offense would be enough to contend, assuming we could buy better starting pitching on the free agent market. If budget constraints weren't an issue, I'd definitely say go after Lee and play Jones off the bench. But we dont have Steinbrenner opening his wallet here. I'm just trying to be realistic.

 

I think this is the real key to the offseason. We need to get a top-line starting pitcher and a 200+ innings middle rotation guy. I am firmly in the Zito camp. Yes, I know he is a flyball pitcher and that could be tough at Wrigley. But the age and durablility give him the edge over Schmidt in my eyes. The only realistic chance the Cubs have at getting him, though, is if the Yankees become preoccupied with a bidding war for the Japanese pitcher being posted (I forget his name). If we cant get Zito, We have to overpay for Schmidt. Risky since it sounds like he wants to go to Seattle. Some have suggested Gil Meche as the mid-rotation guy. I'm not thrilled with that idea personally. He hasn't crossed the 200 inning mark yet. Honestly, I'd rather give Greg Maddux a 1 year contract at $7 million. Looks like he will end up with better numbers this year than last. For the end of the rotation, Rich Hill really does seem to have become a major league pitcher this year, though I'll say that with guarded optimism. I remember thinking the same thing about Jeremy Gonzalez in the late 90s. In any case, if you look back at the most successful teams over the past several years, you'll see once common thread. All have had at least 3 starters throwing 200+ innings and most have had 4. You can see the effects all of this year's non-quality starts are having on our bullpen now. I think depending on Prior again will be a mistake, but I can live with Hill and Marshall at the back of the rotation.

 

I know this doesnt look drastically different than the team that will lose 95+ games this year, but I think a full year of a much improved Hill and a Zito/Schmidt starting 40% of our games will make a huge differnce. Add a full year of a healthy Lee, and we may have something going here. Add a somewhat productive 2nd baseman (unfortunately, I dont think we'll get Soriano) and the Cubs will look like a real team.

 

Sorry to be so long-winded. I look forward to my first official virtual tongue lashing on this board. Hopefully at least some of you will agree with me. For those of you who dont, be gentle....

 

Great post. It sounds like you know baseball, not just stats. Very refreshing. For the sake of all of us who believe not important element of baseball is statistically measurable, please keep it up.

[third eye]

Soapy, I agree that depth in the lineup would be a serious issue. Another major injury could be as disastrous as this one. In some respects, we've been lucky that aramis and barrett have been healthy this year. My argument was more in terms of allocation of available payroll. If we dump 10-12 million on a big name free agent for LF or 2B, we'll only have about 8-10 million left to fill 2 rotation spots. And if we dont have a legitimate number 2 behind zambrano and another 200 inning guy, I think the season will already be toast. Ideally we could address both the rotation and lineup depth, but I dont know if I see that happening.

 

What I'm most afraid of is the middle ground approach all around - something like Cliff Floyd in LF and two bottom of the rotation guys. That has been the Cubs' track record. The one mitigating factor is that Hendry cannot afford to have that kind of failure in the off season. Oh, and I am one of those that feel that competent lineup management will also yield a much improved offense. Hopefully a certain former Cub catcher can bring that to the dugout next year.

[hardcorecubfan]

No more FA relievers.

 

why eyre and howery haven't done bad, admittedly we over-paid but it is the cast of characters around them that have made the pen look bad

[Warpticon]

No more FA relievers.

 

why eyre and howery haven't done bad, admittedly we over-paid but it is the cast of characters around them that have made the pen look bad

 

That is correct. We overpaid. We spent 13 million per on relievers this offseason. How many more games did that win for the Cubs? The bullpen has gone from weakness to strength (or it would be a strength if Dusty would quit pitching certain guys once a week and other guys every day until the former are rusty and the latter are worn out), and the Cubs are still much, much worse overall because they squandered money that could have otherwise been spent on a more pressing need, such as pitching depth or more, stronger bats. And that doesn't account for the fact that relief pitchers are almost always very volatile in their performance (Remember when Guillermo Mota was a stud less than two years ago?), so we don't know how that Howry or Eyre will be anything special over the next two years, but we do know they'll be getting 3-4 million per year. Same thing happened with Remlinger. Meanwhile, guys like Wuertz have been outstanding and cheap and don't get enough innings, and there are others with strong potential there as well.

 

So yeah, I wouldn't spend any money on relievers.

[Magnetic Curses]

No more FA relievers.

 

why eyre and howery haven't done bad, admittedly we over-paid but it is the cast of characters around them that have made the pen look bad

 

i think that hendry was simply polishing the brass on the titanic when he signed howry and eyre. he likes to do that. he'd rather increase the team's speed than fix the hole in the hull.

[Magnetic Curses]

Soapy, I agree that depth in the lineup would be a serious issue. Another major injury could be as disastrous as this one. In some respects, we've been lucky that aramis and barrett have been healthy this year. My argument was more in terms of allocation of available payroll. If we dump 10-12 million on a big name free agent for LF or 2B, we'll only have about 8-10 million left to fill 2 rotation spots. And if we dont have a legitimate number 2 behind zambrano and another 200 inning guy, I think the season will already be toast. Ideally we could address both the rotation and lineup depth, but I dont know if I see that happening.

 

i agree that getting two top of the rotation starters like schmidt and zito would help fix this team. but if acquiring a guy who would make the top of the order look good was possible, i'd say dump pierre. his speed does not at all make him comparable to a guy like brady clark, who looks to be expendable in milwaukee with the acquisition of nix and the emergence of gross. clark in CF automatically makes the cubs better offensively.

 

remember the 2004 cards and the 2003 second half cubs had very deep rotations. you can win with great pitching, but if it fails, you turn to offense, meaning OBP and SLG, not slapping the ball around the diamond in a desperate attempt not to strike out.

 

What I'm most afraid of is the middle ground approach all around - something like Cliff Floyd in LF and two bottom of the rotation guys. That has been the Cubs' track record. The one mitigating factor is that Hendry cannot afford to have that kind of failure in the off season. Oh, and I am one of those that feel that competent lineup management will also yield a much improved offense. Hopefully a certain former Cub catcher can bring that to the dugout next year.

 

lineup management? man, dusty's philosophy is the same as hendry's, hendry will most likely get some guy with baseball ideas similar to his own. he will continue to acquire guys that "put the ball in play" at the expense of OBP and SLG. and besides, i'm not sure what girardi has proven, it's documented that things wouldn't be the same if he didn't have beinfest and loria breathing down his neck--it's not girardi's choice to play the young guys. girardi is doing what those two want, which is why he hates it in florida and may be available. he'd probably turn out much like dusty in a couple of years in chicago.

 

the marlins front office is showing why the front office is so valuable, which is what billy beane has done for years in oakland. managers should be puppets and puppets only.

 

unfortunately, we do not have a good front office, so the manager is in charge of making up for their mistakes in chicago, which is not a good situation for anybody to be in. i predict that it will end badly for any and all cub managers while hendry is calling the shots, no matter how good they are.

[CubColtPacer]

Soapy, I agree that depth in the lineup would be a serious issue. Another major injury could be as disastrous as this one. In some respects, we've been lucky that aramis and barrett have been healthy this year. My argument was more in terms of allocation of available payroll. If we dump 10-12 million on a big name free agent for LF or 2B, we'll only have about 8-10 million left to fill 2 rotation spots. And if we dont have a legitimate number 2 behind zambrano and another 200 inning guy, I think the season will already be toast. Ideally we could address both the rotation and lineup depth, but I dont know if I see that happening.

 

i agree that getting two top of the rotation starters like schmidt and zito would help fix this team. but if acquiring a guy who would make the top of the order look good was possible, i'd say dump pierre. his speed does not at all make him comparable to a guy like brady clark, who looks to be expendable in milwaukee with the acquisition of nix and the emergence of gross. clark in CF automatically makes the cubs better offensively.

 

I'd be a bit worried about a player like Brady Clark. He has had 2 good seasons, and only 1 season with over 400 AB's. He is 33, and Pierre's OPS is 15 points better than Clark this year. There is no history of production to count on, and he is at a time of his career where this year certainly could be him tailing off. While I don't want to sign Pierre to a multi-year deal, neither do I think that trading for Clark would be worth it-he's simply not likely to give you the amount of production you need to be worth the trade.

[Magnetic Curses]

Soapy, I agree that depth in the lineup would be a serious issue. Another major injury could be as disastrous as this one. In some respects, we've been lucky that aramis and barrett have been healthy this year. My argument was more in terms of allocation of available payroll. If we dump 10-12 million on a big name free agent for LF or 2B, we'll only have about 8-10 million left to fill 2 rotation spots. And if we dont have a legitimate number 2 behind zambrano and another 200 inning guy, I think the season will already be toast. Ideally we could address both the rotation and lineup depth, but I dont know if I see that happening.

 

i agree that getting two top of the rotation starters like schmidt and zito would help fix this team. but if acquiring a guy who would make the top of the order look good was possible, i'd say dump pierre. his speed does not at all make him comparable to a guy like brady clark, who looks to be expendable in milwaukee with the acquisition of nix and the emergence of gross. clark in CF automatically makes the cubs better offensively.

 

I'd be a bit worried about a player like Brady Clark. He has had 2 good seasons, and only 1 season with over 400 AB's. He is 33, and Pierre's OPS is 15 points better than Clark this year. There is no history of production to count on, and he is at a time of his career where this year certainly could be him tailing off. While I don't want to sign Pierre to a multi-year deal, neither do I think that trading for Clark would be worth it-he's simply not likely to give you the amount of production you need to be worth the trade.

 

i'm not sure why you object to anyone bringing up a player with a high OBP to supplant pierre.

 

in a seasons in which he's gotten 300 or more ABs, he hasn't put up less than a .330 OBP, which is much lower than his career OBP, which is .361. recently he's been slumping, and his OBP has fallen from .380 to .363 in the last couple of weeks, but i'll wager that he'll put up a .370 or better OBP for the third straight season. something that pierre can only dream about. defensively, he's no downgrade to pierre, either.

 

i wouldn't count on a major decline from 33-34, i'd expect his OBP to remain static and his defense to be adequate. clark is as solid player that you can count on to get on base.

 

he'll also be cheaper than pierre next season, probably half as expensive.

[CubColtPacer]

Soapy, I agree that depth in the lineup would be a serious issue. Another major injury could be as disastrous as this one. In some respects, we've been lucky that aramis and barrett have been healthy this year. My argument was more in terms of allocation of available payroll. If we dump 10-12 million on a big name free agent for LF or 2B, we'll only have about 8-10 million left to fill 2 rotation spots. And if we dont have a legitimate number 2 behind zambrano and another 200 inning guy, I think the season will already be toast. Ideally we could address both the rotation and lineup depth, but I dont know if I see that happening.

 

i agree that getting two top of the rotation starters like schmidt and zito would help fix this team. but if acquiring a guy who would make the top of the order look good was possible, i'd say dump pierre. his speed does not at all make him comparable to a guy like brady clark, who looks to be expendable in milwaukee with the acquisition of nix and the emergence of gross. clark in CF automatically makes the cubs better offensively.

 

I'd be a bit worried about a player like Brady Clark. He has had 2 good seasons, and only 1 season with over 400 AB's. He is 33, and Pierre's OPS is 15 points better than Clark this year. There is no history of production to count on, and he is at a time of his career where this year certainly could be him tailing off. While I don't want to sign Pierre to a multi-year deal, neither do I think that trading for Clark would be worth it-he's simply not likely to give you the amount of production you need to be worth the trade.

 

i'm not sure why you object to anyone bringing up a player with a high OBP to supplant pierre.

 

in a seasons in which he's gotten 300 or more ABs, he hasn't put up less than a .330 OBP, which is much lower than his career OBP, which is .361. recently he's been slumping, and his OBP has fallen from .380 to .363 in the last couple of weeks, but i'll wager that he'll put up a .370 or better OBP for the third straight season. something that pierre can only dream about. defensively, he's no downgrade to pierre, either.

 

i wouldn't count on a major decline from 33-34, i'd expect his OBP to remain static and his defense to be adequate. clark is as solid player that you can count on to get on base.

 

he'll also be cheaper than pierre next season, probably half as expensive.

 

If Clark and Pierre were both in FA next year, and if they were my two final options, then I would choose Clark. I just don't think he's worth the amount it would take to trade for him for the upgrade that it would be to Pierre (but know that I am not for re-signing Pierre to a multi-year deal either-I would rather go a completely different direction). Also, I simply don't think Clark is nearly the best option out there.

[Magnetic Curses]

Soapy, I agree that depth in the lineup would be a serious issue. Another major injury could be as disastrous as this one. In some respects, we've been lucky that aramis and barrett have been healthy this year. My argument was more in terms of allocation of available payroll. If we dump 10-12 million on a big name free agent for LF or 2B, we'll only have about 8-10 million left to fill 2 rotation spots. And if we dont have a legitimate number 2 behind zambrano and another 200 inning guy, I think the season will already be toast. Ideally we could address both the rotation and lineup depth, but I dont know if I see that happening.

 

i agree that getting two top of the rotation starters like schmidt and zito would help fix this team. but if acquiring a guy who would make the top of the order look good was possible, i'd say dump pierre. his speed does not at all make him comparable to a guy like brady clark, who looks to be expendable in milwaukee with the acquisition of nix and the emergence of gross. clark in CF automatically makes the cubs better offensively.

 

I'd be a bit worried about a player like Brady Clark. He has had 2 good seasons, and only 1 season with over 400 AB's. He is 33, and Pierre's OPS is 15 points better than Clark this year. There is no history of production to count on, and he is at a time of his career where this year certainly could be him tailing off. While I don't want to sign Pierre to a multi-year deal, neither do I think that trading for Clark would be worth it-he's simply not likely to give you the amount of production you need to be worth the trade.

 

i'm not sure why you object to anyone bringing up a player with a high OBP to supplant pierre.

 

in a seasons in which he's gotten 300 or more ABs, he hasn't put up less than a .330 OBP, which is much lower than his career OBP, which is .361. recently he's been slumping, and his OBP has fallen from .380 to .363 in the last couple of weeks, but i'll wager that he'll put up a .370 or better OBP for the third straight season. something that pierre can only dream about. defensively, he's no downgrade to pierre, either.

 

i wouldn't count on a major decline from 33-34, i'd expect his OBP to remain static and his defense to be adequate. clark is as solid player that you can count on to get on base.

 

he'll also be cheaper than pierre next season, probably half as expensive.

 

If Clark and Pierre were both in FA next year, and if they were my two final options, then I would choose Clark. I just don't think he's worth the amount it would take to trade for him for the upgrade that it would be to Pierre (but know that I am not for re-signing Pierre to a multi-year deal either-I would rather go a completely different direction). Also, I simply don't think Clark is nearly the best option out there.

 

for the price that he would command and the production that he would give, he'd be worth it. hendry could then focus at upgrading the corner spots and second base.

[frostwyrm]

Abreu would be absolutely perfect for our needs. I think we should get him from Philly at the deadline with 2007 in mind.

Since you appear to have a time machine I suggest you go back a little further and get Vlad.

[frostwyrm]

No more FA relievers.

 

why eyre and howery haven't done bad, admittedly we over-paid but it is the cast of characters around them that have made the pen look bad

 

That is correct. We overpaid. We spent 13 million per on relievers this offseason. How many more games did that win for the Cubs? The bullpen has gone from weakness to strength (or it would be a strength if Dusty would quit pitching certain guys once a week and other guys every day until the former are rusty and the latter are worn out), and the Cubs are still much, much worse overall because they squandered money that could have otherwise been spent on a more pressing need, such as pitching depth or more, stronger bats. And that doesn't account for the fact that relief pitchers are almost always very volatile in their performance (Remember when Guillermo Mota was a stud less than two years ago?), so we don't know how that Howry or Eyre will be anything special over the next two years, but we do know they'll be getting 3-4 million per year. Same thing happened with Remlinger. Meanwhile, guys like Wuertz have been outstanding and cheap and don't get enough innings, and there are others with strong potential there as well.

 

So yeah, I wouldn't spend any money on relievers.

I wish MacPhail or somebody would declare a moratorium on expensive bullpen acquisitions because I fear Jim will offer Kerry $3-4M to be a reliever, in which case the bullpen will be a huge financial drag.

[Sammy Sofa]

Though as long as they don't tank, both Howry and Eyre could fetch some decent players in smart trades if needed. Dempster, too, if he can pick it back up and get back on a more consistent schedule.