Assesment on Hill, so far?

[Sammy Sofa]

We're all Cubs fans. I've never wanted Hill to do anything but kick butt.

 

OFT.

 

There's not a person here that WANTED Hill to fail like he did initially.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Solution: Let's stop making definitive statements about pitchers who have less than 50 MLB IP, especially after having a lot of success at lower levels.

[Sammy Sofa]

Solution: Let's stop making definitive statements about pitchers who have less than 50 MLB IP, especially after having a lot of success at lower levels.

 

I didn't know "it looks like" or "it appears" or "I think" or "maybe" or "probably"" etc., etc. ad nauseum were the indicators of definitive statements.

 

It's not like he was only "kinda bad." He couldn't have been in more of a steep contrast with his minor league numbers with his MLB performances the start of this year and the end of last year. Sample size, sure, but he was appalling. People let their passionate fandom get the better of them all the time, especially when someone is repeatedly THAT bad. Now he's gotten a lot better and the naysayers have copped to hopefully being wrong. Where's the problem?

Edited September 2, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Solution: Let's stop making definitive statements about pitchers who have less than 50 MLB IP, especially after having a lot of success at lower levels.

 

I didn't know "it looks like" or "it appears" or "I think" or "maybe" or "probably"" etc., etc. ad nauseum were the indicators of definitive statements.

 

There were a whole lot of definitive statements about Hill being made. I'm not about to search and find who said them, I'm just saying they were made, and there were many of them.

[Sammy Sofa]

Solution: Let's stop making definitive statements about pitchers who have less than 50 MLB IP, especially after having a lot of success at lower levels.

 

I didn't know "it looks like" or "it appears" or "I think" or "maybe" or "probably"" etc., etc. ad nauseum were the indicators of definitive statements.

 

There were a whole lot of definitive statements about Hill being made. I'm not about to search and find who said them, I'm just saying they were made, and there were many of them.

 

In that case, I was speaking for myself. I was specifically quoted as someone who needed to be singled out for my comments on Hill, and I don't appreciate the nature of those posts.

[C.C.]

Solution: Let's stop making definitive statements about pitchers who have less than 50 MLB IP, especially after having a lot of success at lower levels.

 

I didn't know "it looks like" or "it appears" or "I think" or "maybe" or "probably"" etc., etc. ad nauseum were the indicators of definitive statements.

 

There were a whole lot of definitive statements about Hill being made. I'm not about to search and find who said them, I'm just saying they were made, and there were many of them.

 

In that case, I was speaking for myself. I was specifically quoted as someone who needed to be singled out for my comments on Hill, and I don't appreciate the nature of those posts.

 

I agree...It's bit childish and cheap. Let's just all be happy with the progress he's made.

[Guest]

There were a lot of definitive statements being made that Hill:

 

- only had one quality pitch

- couldn't possibly succeed in MLB with just the one pitch

- was --at best-- a loogy and should be put in the pen immediately

- etc.

 

 

btw - for all the "I told you so'er's" out there: I'm planning on working to get the archives up and search working again this weekend. No promises on a final fix yet, but I've got a bit of time over the three day weekend and a promising idea of how not to tax the system.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

btw - for all the "I told you so'er's" out there: I'm planning on working to get the archives up and search working again this weekend. No promises on a final fix yet, but I've got a bit of time over the three day weekend and a promising idea of how not to tax the system.

 

:w00t:

[Sammy Sofa]

There were a lot of definitive statements being made that Hill:

 

- only had one quality pitch

- couldn't possibly succeed in MLB with just the one pitch

- was --at best-- a loogy and should be put in the pen immediately

- etc.

 

Not to speak for everyone, but isn't it safe to say Hill was fulfilling pretty much all of those statements during his initial run of MLB starts between 2005 and 2006? It's not like the negative sentiments about him came from out of nowhere.

 

For pretty much every player you're going to find people on both sides of the opinion as to whether or not that player will find success in the bigs. Hell, Zambrano had his detractors. It happens. People can be wrong. What's the point in singling out those who didn't share your opinion and then willfully rubbing their faces in it, even if they've repeatedly expressed that they were wrong?

 

I'm sorry, but that's a line of thought that bugs the hell out of me.

[Guest]

There were a lot of definitive statements being made that Hill:

 

- only had one quality pitch

- couldn't possibly succeed in MLB with just the one pitch

- was --at best-- a loogy and should be put in the pen immediately

- etc.

 

Not to speak for everyone, but isn't it safe to say Hill was fulfilling pretty much all of those statements during his initial run of MLB starts between 2005 and 2006? It's not like the negative sentiments about him came from out of nowhere.

 

For pretty much every player you're going to find people on both sides of the opinion as to whether or not that player will find success in the bigs. Hell, Zambrano had his detractors. It happens. People can be wrong. What's the point in singling out those who didn't share your opinion and then willfully rubbing their faces in it, even if they've repeatedly expressed that they were wrong?

 

I'm sorry, but that's a line of thought that bugs the hell out of me.

Do you really think that Hill's fastball is any different now than it was before? I sure don't see any difference other than location. But now it's a major league pitch and it wasn't before?

 

I'm not big on "I told you so's", but I can understand abuck's position here. He caught a LOT of flack for defending Hill from a large number of people. Yes, quite a few of the people are turning around now. But that doesn't quite make up for the crap he took earlier, does it?

[CubinNY]

You know who you are.

 

IMO, the jury is STILL out on Hill. He just hasn't pitched enough yet.

 

But as one of the people who didn't say he was going to be great, that it was too early to judge him, and that is minor league numbers indicated he could be pretty good, I am real happy he is doing well.

 

You won't hear any "eat crow's" or "I told you so's" from me though.

[Sammy Sofa]

So people specifically quoted posts of his to try and and somehow spin what he said in a negative and, quie frankly, insulting light as opposed to simply just disagreeing with his opinion of Hill?

 

The "told you so" sentiment as some are gleefully piling on here is just ugly, negative and pointless. Again, I'm sorry, but I find it insulting. It's not like people were piling on abuck...they were piling on Rich Hill and disagreeing with abuck's opinion about Hill. Transferring the angry and often times ridiculous things I and others said about Hill onto him doesn't somehow make the "told you so's" OK.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

So people specifically quoted posts of his to try and and somehow spin what he said in a negative and, quie frankly, insulting light as opposed to simply just disagreeing with his opinion of Hill?

 

The "told you so" sentiment as some are gleefully piling on here is just ugly, negative and pointless. Again, I'm sorry, but I find it insulting. It's not like people were piling on abuck...they were piling on Rich Hill and disagreeing with abuck's opinion about Hill. Transferring the angry and often times ridiculous things I and others said about Hill onto him doesn't somehow make the "told you so's" OK.

 

They were piling on abuck. It was pretty bad.

[Sammy Sofa]

Do you really think that Hill's fastball is any different now than it was before? I sure don't see any difference other than location. But now it's a major league pitch and it wasn't before?

 

Personally, I always thought it was a control issue and I didn't think he was going to be able to consistently lock it down against MLB-level hitters as a starter and thought he might be a better option as a lefty specialist coming out of the pen.

[Sammy Sofa]

So people specifically quoted posts of his to try and and somehow spin what he said in a negative and, quie frankly, insulting light as opposed to simply just disagreeing with his opinion of Hill?

 

The "told you so" sentiment as some are gleefully piling on here is just ugly, negative and pointless. Again, I'm sorry, but I find it insulting. It's not like people were piling on abuck...they were piling on Rich Hill and disagreeing with abuck's opinion about Hill. Transferring the angry and often times ridiculous things I and others said about Hill onto him doesn't somehow make the "told you so's" OK.

 

They were piling on abuck. It was pretty bad.

 

Well, if I'm lumped into that and/or anything I said down the line was taken that way, I do sincerely apologize. I was venting my frustration about Hill and I didn't think any of it would be taken personally by anyone.

[Guest]

I don't think you were one of the ones referring to abuck as Rich's boyfriend (or was it the other way around)...

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't think you were one of the ones referring to abuck as Rich's boyfriend (or was it the other way around)...

 

OK, that's just ridiculous. I'm sorry he had to hear that.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I don't think you were one of the ones referring to abuck as Rich's boyfriend (or was it the other way around)...

 

Yeah, it was the other way around.

[abuck1220]

again, this wasn't a told you so...because i never said hill was going to be good. all i've ever said about hill is 1) he deserved to be in the major league rotation (based on his stellar AAA numbers) and 2) you couldn't judge him based on 40 big league innings.

 

never did i say he was the second coming of sandy koufax or that i was penciling him in for 18 wins next year. he is certainly one my favorite prospects, but i've never predicted any kind of success for him, so there'd be nothing for me to tell you so. these opinions were morphed into claims that i was his boy, his boyfriend, or, as mentioned in this very thread, his mother.

 

plenty of people who certainly know much more than me doubted (and probably still doubt) hill's potential. and i'm a-ok with that...as i said, they know more than me, and it wouldn't shock me completely (though i'd be somewhat surprised) if hill never amounts to anything. the posts that pissed me off were posts by people who had never seen hill outside of the televised cub games, and likely knew nothing about him until last summer.

 

as i've said 8 billion times, you simply cannot judge a guy based on 40 big league innings, but that didn't stop some self-annointed experts from doing it (and giving hell to hill's supporters in the process). so, yeah, i wouldn't feel bad in the slightest rubbing it in those people's faces if hill ends up winning 18 games next year. like someone earlier in the thread said, if you don't want being wrong rubbed in your face, don't make definitive statements based on eight starts.

[Sammy Sofa]

so, yeah, i wouldn't feel bad in the slightest rubbing it in those people's faces if hill ends up winning 18 games next year. like someone earlier in the thread said, if you don't want being wrong rubbed in your face, don't make definitive statements based on eight starts.

 

I still can't wrap my head around this. It's basically saying "don't have the wrong opinion, because people are going to make you pay."

 

Again, by this logic there are still people who should be harassed every time Zambrano has a quality start. Where does it end?

[RockTheIvy]

The trick is to just never be wrong. :wink:

[Sammy Sofa]

The trick is to just never be wrong. :wink:

 

I flunked that class.

[CUBZ99]

There were a lot of definitive statements being made that Hill:

 

- only had one quality pitch

- couldn't possibly succeed in MLB with just the one pitch

- was --at best-- a loogy and should be put in the pen immediately

- etc.

 

 

btw - for all the "I told you so'er's" out there: I'm planning on working to get the archives up and search working again this weekend. No promises on a final fix yet, but I've got a bit of time over the three day weekend and a promising idea of how not to tax the system.

 

Great, I can't wait for all of the "I told you", posts :wink: like ......

 

- Bobby Hill is going to be a great player

- Choi is going to better than Lee

- Corey Patterson is great

- Cedeno can't be any worse than Neifi

- Howry and Eyre were horrible pickups

 

on and on and on.....

 

its one thing to acknowledge that a player is exceeding expectations and be thrilled with his performance but it is quite another to take attacks on that player as personal attacks on yourself and rub it in in their faces.

 

I've seen Rich Hill pitch in Iowa, and posted a little blurb about my experience in the minor league forum. Quick synopsis, my six year old son recognized him from his earlier call up with the Cubs and yelled out his name as he was walking by us before the game started. Hill smiled and came over to where we were sitting and began to talk to my son and daugther. He was very gracious to them and signed a baseball and bat. The whole way home my son kept reading me Rich Hill's stats and telling me that his stats were better than any of the Cubs pitchers. Needless to say my kids are probably as big of fans of Rich Hill as Abuck. Personally, I hope that he goes on to dominate the majors like he did at AAA.

[C.C.]

again, this wasn't a told you so...because i never said hill was going to be good. all i've ever said about hill is 1) he deserved to be in the major league rotation (based on his stellar AAA numbers) and 2) you couldn't judge him based on 40 big league innings.

 

never did i say he was the second coming of sandy koufax or that i was penciling him in for 18 wins next year. he is certainly one my favorite prospects, but i've never predicted any kind of success for him, so there'd be nothing for me to tell you so. these opinions were morphed into claims that i was his boy, his boyfriend, or, as mentioned in this very thread, his mother.

 

plenty of people who certainly know much more than me doubted (and probably still doubt) hill's potential. and i'm a-ok with that...as i said, they know more than me, and it wouldn't shock me completely (though i'd be somewhat surprised) if hill never amounts to anything. the posts that pissed me off were posts by people who had never seen hill outside of the televised cub games, and likely knew nothing about him until last summer.

 

as i've said 8 billion times, you simply cannot judge a guy based on 40 big league innings, but that didn't stop some self-annointed experts from doing it (and giving hell to hill's supporters in the process). so, yeah, i wouldn't feel bad in the slightest rubbing it in those people's faces if hill ends up winning 18 games next year. like someone earlier in the thread said, if you don't want being wrong rubbed in your face, don't make definitive statements based on eight starts.

 

You are taking this way too personally. No reason to rub peoples faces in it because you are right (for now).

[abuck1220]

so, yeah, i wouldn't feel bad in the slightest rubbing it in those people's faces if hill ends up winning 18 games next year. like someone earlier in the thread said, if you don't want being wrong rubbed in your face, don't make definitive statements based on eight starts.

 

I still can't wrap my head around this. It's basically saying "don't have the wrong opinion, because people are going to make you pay."

 

 

it does seem as though you're having trouble wrapping your head around this because that's not what i'm saying at all.

 

if you don't want being wrong rubbed in your face, don't make definitive statements based on eight starts.