Assesment on Hill, so far?

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't know, but I'm baffled as to how it could be his shoulder when he didn't really seem to have any problems along these lines when he finished up last year. I know it sounded ridiculous, but maybe being as sick as he was over the winter threw everything off workout/fitness/schedule/throwing-wise (if he was a sick as it's been reported, any kind of off-season routine could have been destroyed for 1-2 months or more) and he's been paying for it ever since. I'm just banking that having a normal off-season helps get him back on track. Now we just need to keep him in a plastic bubble in the meantime...

 

Man, I hope your right because I miss the Prior of old. He basically has been out all year with this injury...I just hope it heals properly in the offseason. I just have a feeling that sugery is just around the corner. I'm no doctor, but I find it strange that a sore shoulder would keep you out for a year.

 

Yeah, me too. I just can't for the life of me figure out how a pitcher like that would end up needing surgery along those lines. We all know he was overworked in 2003, but he's shown he still had it outside of those random onfield injuries since then. Why now? What happened between the end of last year and spring training that wrecked him?

[C.C.]

I don't know, but I'm baffled as to how it could be his shoulder when he didn't really seem to have any problems along these lines when he finished up last year. I know it sounded ridiculous, but maybe being as sick as he was over the winter threw everything off workout/fitness/schedule/throwing-wise (if he was a sick as it's been reported, any kind of off-season routine could have been destroyed for 1-2 months or more) and he's been paying for it ever since. I'm just banking that having a normal off-season helps get him back on track. Now we just need to keep him in a plastic bubble in the meantime...

 

Man, I hope your right because I miss the Prior of old. He basically has been out all year with this injury...I just hope it heals properly in the offseason. I just have a feeling that sugery is just around the corner. I'm no doctor, but I find it strange that a sore shoulder would keep you out for a year.

 

Yeah, me too. I just can't for the life of me figure out how a pitcher like that would end up needing surgery along those lines. We all know he was overworked in 2003, but he's shown he still had it outside of those random onfield injuries since then. Why now? What happened between the end of last year and spring training that wrecked him?

 

I think him being sick in the offseason and possibly bad off-season workout habits all contribute to this. When was the last time we heard news about him? Kinda strange eh?

[baseball7897]

I don't know, but I'm baffled as to how it could be his shoulder when he didn't really seem to have any problems along these lines when he finished up last year. I know it sounded ridiculous, but maybe being as sick as he was over the winter threw everything off workout/fitness/schedule/throwing-wise (if he was a sick as it's been reported, any kind of off-season routine could have been destroyed for 1-2 months or more) and he's been paying for it ever since. I'm just banking that having a normal off-season helps get him back on track. Now we just need to keep him in a plastic bubble in the meantime...

 

Man, I hope your right because I miss the Prior of old. He basically has been out all year with this injury...I just hope it heals properly in the offseason. I just have a feeling that sugery is just around the corner. I'm no doctor, but I find it strange that a sore shoulder would keep you out for a year.

 

Yeah, me too. I just can't for the life of me figure out how a pitcher like that would end up needing surgery along those lines. We all know he was overworked in 2003, but he's shown he still had it outside of those random onfield injuries since then. Why now? What happened between the end of last year and spring training that wrecked him?

 

I think him being sick in the offseason and possibly bad off-season workout habits all contribute to this. When was the last time we heard news about him? Kinda strange eh?

 

Prior will tell you he is a hard worker. I am going to take his word for that. I think he has had mostly bad luck. Freak injuries like 03 and 05 havent helped him either. IF he can stay healthy, he is one of the better pitchers in the league in my opinion.

[A New Era]

I'm still baffled by people who leave Prior completely out of the pitching rotation for 2007. I'm just as let down by him this year as anyone, and skeptical about what will happen next year, but I also highly doubt he won't be there at all. I just don't see him as "broken" as Wood has been...no, I don't know what's wrong with him, but this is the first year that he's been down significantly with anything besides a fluke on the field injury. Combine that with next year being his contract year and I don't see him rolling over and doing nothing again short of him being devastated physically and/or mentally.

 

That said, if Hendry acts with the idea that Prior is a bankable #1 or #2 at this point, he's a fool. I'm confident Prior will be back and impressive next year, but even I'm not assuming he's more than a #3 or even #4 as of now. I just think acting like he doesn't exist is pretty silly and shortsighted.

 

So you don't want to rely on Hill as more than a #5, but will do so with Prior as a possible #3 or 4? Call US crazy for counting on Hill. Let me ask you, what has PRIOR shown this year that he can be counted on as more than a #5 (if we are lucky he's healthy)? It just seems a little inconsistant of you to call us out for penciling in Hill as atleast a #4 yet count on Prior as even as high as a #3 as you just stated above.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm still baffled by people who leave Prior completely out of the pitching rotation for 2007. I'm just as let down by him this year as anyone, and skeptical about what will happen next year, but I also highly doubt he won't be there at all. I just don't see him as "broken" as Wood has been...no, I don't know what's wrong with him, but this is the first year that he's been down significantly with anything besides a fluke on the field injury. Combine that with next year being his contract year and I don't see him rolling over and doing nothing again short of him being devastated physically and/or mentally.

 

That said, if Hendry acts with the idea that Prior is a bankable #1 or #2 at this point, he's a fool. I'm confident Prior will be back and impressive next year, but even I'm not assuming he's more than a #3 or even #4 as of now. I just think acting like he doesn't exist is pretty silly and shortsighted.

 

So you don't want to rely on Hill as more than a #5, but will do so with Prior as a possible #3 or 4? Call US crazy for counting on Hill. Let me ask you, what has PRIOR shown this year that he can be counted on as more than a #5 (if we are lucky he's healthy)? It just seems a little inconsistant of you to call us out for penciling in Hill as atleast a #4 yet count on Prior as even as high as a #3 as you just stated above.

 

When did I say Hill should only be #5? As of right now, I want him to be the #4 and Prior ideally the #3. And where did I call anyone crazy recently for counting on Hill? I think you're mixing me up with someone else in this thread.

 

Besides, I'm obviously not basing my opinion/hopes about Prior on much of anything he did this year. I'd be a nut to do that. I'm basing it on past performance and subtracting the two onfield injuries, this is the only year where he's been sidelined like this and for this long. Contrary to what people seem to want to think, this is not usual for him.

[A New Era]

I'm still baffled by people who leave Prior completely out of the pitching rotation for 2007. I'm just as let down by him this year as anyone, and skeptical about what will happen next year, but I also highly doubt he won't be there at all. I just don't see him as "broken" as Wood has been...no, I don't know what's wrong with him, but this is the first year that he's been down significantly with anything besides a fluke on the field injury. Combine that with next year being his contract year and I don't see him rolling over and doing nothing again short of him being devastated physically and/or mentally.

 

That said, if Hendry acts with the idea that Prior is a bankable #1 or #2 at this point, he's a fool. I'm confident Prior will be back and impressive next year, but even I'm not assuming he's more than a #3 or even #4 as of now. I just think acting like he doesn't exist is pretty silly and shortsighted.

 

So you don't want to rely on Hill as more than a #5, but will do so with Prior as a possible #3 or 4? Call US crazy for counting on Hill. Let me ask you, what has PRIOR shown this year that he can be counted on as more than a #5 (if we are lucky he's healthy)? It just seems a little inconsistant of you to call us out for penciling in Hill as atleast a #4 yet count on Prior as even as high as a #3 as you just stated above.

 

When did I say Hill should only be #5? As of right now, I want him to be the #4 and Prior ideally the #3. And where did I call anyone crazy recently for counting on Hill? I think you're mixing me up with someone else in this thread.

 

Besides, I'm obviously not basing my opinion/hopes about Prior on much of anything he did this year. I'd be a nut to do that. I'm basing it on past performance and subtracting the two onfield injuries, this is the only year where he's been sidelined like this and for this long. Contrary to what people seem to want to think, this is not usual for him.

 

You're right. Cubbiechris said this "There's a lesson to be learned here. Hill should be counted on nothing more but a 5th starter.". I got you confused. Sorry. Right now I count on Prior as a bonus. Hill I would actually bump above Prior, but for health reasons only. Prior could be a #2 if healthy. Hill could be a #3, 4 if healthy. Key word health, and Prior has the dice thrown against him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Regardless of where Hill is slotted, barring a trade, the Cubs have Zambrano, Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Mateo, Guzman, Ryu, and Prior to compete for rotation spots.

 

Zambrano is guaranteed a spot. Prior will be there, but we don't know what he has. He could be a great number two or a dissapointment at a #5. We just don't know. Hill likely would be a good number three, but he's uncertain. Could two of the other five be good enough to fill out the rotation? I don't know, and I'd rather not take that gamble. If I knew that Prior would be the Prior of 2003, then I'd say we have enough depth to roll the dice and go with Zambrano, Prior and three of the above six and hope for the best. If you sign a pitcher of Schmidt's caliber, though, Zambrano and Schmidt give the team two legitimate aces. If Prior is the Prior of old, then that 1-3 would be as good as any in baseball. If not, the team still has two aces. With Schmidt in the fold, the Cubs could use Hill as the number four and then trade one or more of the remaining five while keeping three of them for dept and competion for the last spot in the rotation.

 

If you sign a FA less than the caliber of Schmidt or Zito, then you might have to keep more of the kids around to give you a larger net in the case of failures.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm still baffled by people who leave Prior completely out of the pitching rotation for 2007. I'm just as let down by him this year as anyone, and skeptical about what will happen next year, but I also highly doubt he won't be there at all. I just don't see him as "broken" as Wood has been...no, I don't know what's wrong with him, but this is the first year that he's been down significantly with anything besides a fluke on the field injury. Combine that with next year being his contract year and I don't see him rolling over and doing nothing again short of him being devastated physically and/or mentally.

 

That said, if Hendry acts with the idea that Prior is a bankable #1 or #2 at this point, he's a fool. I'm confident Prior will be back and impressive next year, but even I'm not assuming he's more than a #3 or even #4 as of now. I just think acting like he doesn't exist is pretty silly and shortsighted.

 

So you don't want to rely on Hill as more than a #5, but will do so with Prior as a possible #3 or 4? Call US crazy for counting on Hill. Let me ask you, what has PRIOR shown this year that he can be counted on as more than a #5 (if we are lucky he's healthy)? It just seems a little inconsistant of you to call us out for penciling in Hill as atleast a #4 yet count on Prior as even as high as a #3 as you just stated above.

 

When did I say Hill should only be #5? As of right now, I want him to be the #4 and Prior ideally the #3. And where did I call anyone crazy recently for counting on Hill? I think you're mixing me up with someone else in this thread.

 

Besides, I'm obviously not basing my opinion/hopes about Prior on much of anything he did this year. I'd be a nut to do that. I'm basing it on past performance and subtracting the two onfield injuries, this is the only year where he's been sidelined like this and for this long. Contrary to what people seem to want to think, this is not usual for him.

 

You're right. Cubbiechris said this "There's a lesson to be learned here. Hill should be counted on nothing more but a 5th starter.". I got you confused. Sorry. Right now I count on Prior as a bonus. Hill I would actually bump above Prior, but for health reasons only. Prior could be a #2 if healthy. Hill could be a #3, 4 if healthy. Key word health, and Prior has the dice thrown against him.

 

Prior is a crapshoot (no pun intended, I swear), no doubt, but I still think he'd pull out of it in a career year short of just completely breaking down. But I'd be happy with Hill having to slide into the #3 slot behind Z and whoever the Cubs finally wise up and go out and get to bolster the lineup.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Z isn't flawless, I may be nitpicking but I hate how many guys he walks (and it's been getting worse), his HR/9 rate has been climbing every year, his P/IP has gone up, and back problems in pitchers worry me (see Mark Mulder, who went back, hip, and then to shoulder in about 2 years).

[goonys evil twin]

Talent does not equal production. Semantics has nothing to do with that, and the Cubs are perfect examples (whether it's the tools over production practice, or specific players likes Wood and Prior). I think it's a mistake to say you can't have enough talented pitching

 

 

so the cubs would have been better off without wood and prior? ridiculous. the problem was when wood and prior got hurt, they had no more talented pitchers.

 

If you're going to keep putting words into my mouth, please stop responding to my posts.

[C.C.]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Z isn't flawless, I may be nitpicking but I hate how many guys he walks (and it's been getting worse), his HR/9 rate has been climbing every year, his P/IP has gone up, and back problems in pitchers worry me (see Mark Mulder, who went back, hip, and then to shoulder in about 2 years).

 

No doubt! But Healthy is the key word here...

[Soriano12]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Jim, I think its time to look at door #2.

[WeberJazz]

This is kind of late on the Hill/Duke discussion, but relevant to Duke's performance this year is the fact that he has been in the process of revamping his mechanics.

 

I just got off the phone with my old man (who is a huge Pirates fan) and he mentioned that the Pirates pitching coach (I think he said it was a new pitching coach) felt like Duke's mechanics were going to cause him arm troubles somewhere down the road so they've been working on his mechanics. My dad said that he is just now getting used to his new delivery and his last 7 or 8 starts have been much better.

[Sarcastic]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Jim, I think its time to look at door #2.

 

I agree that, if Prior was healthy, he could be better than Zambrano. I think some people have forgotten his comeback in 2005, before he was hit by that line drive. He hasn't been the same since, but if he starts next season healthy, he could be. Still, I don't think anyone is going to guarantee Prior will be productive next year.

 

The problem is, at this point, that argument is academic. Whether or not you believe Prior is coming back, we still could use a good front of the rotation starter. If you write off Prior, we'd need someone to be the number two. We might need a number three also, but since there really aren't enough available impact pitchers to restock our rotation from the market, it doesn't make a difference. I say, they should see what Prior can do next year, and try to improve the rotation regardless.

[Jehrico]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Jim, I think its time to look at door #2.

Door #2, IMO, is putting Prior in that 5 slot. If our 5th pitcher pitches like an ace, all the better!

[A New Era]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Jim, I think its time to look at door #2.

Door #2, IMO, is putting Prior in that 5 slot. If our 5th pitcher pitches like an ace, all the better!

 

Yeah, I can live with a pair of Aces. :wink: And Ace can Club a Duece. But an Ace hitter can Jack one out of the Diamond.

[Soul]

I actually still believe a healthy Mark Prior is our ace.

 

Jim, I think its time to look at door #2.

 

I agree that, if Prior was healthy, he could be better than Zambrano. I think some people have forgotten his comeback in 2005, before he was hit by that line drive. He hasn't been the same since, but if he starts next season healthy, he could be. Still, I don't think anyone is going to guarantee Prior will be productive next year.

 

The problem is, at this point, that argument is academic. Whether or not you believe Prior is coming back, we still could use a good front of the rotation starter. If you write off Prior, we'd need someone to be the number two. We might need a number three also, but since there really aren't enough available impact pitchers to restock our rotation from the market, it doesn't make a difference. I say, they should see what Prior can do next year, and try to improve the rotation regardless.

 

Hendry had better come up with 2 or 3 starters if he's going to fulfill his promise to "fix this thing" in the offseason.

[Soriano12]

I healthy Prior will never be better Zambrano.

 

Because Z has something Prior doesn't......a set of nuts.

[C.C.]

I healthy Prior will never be better Zambrano.

 

Because Z has something Prior doesn't......a set of nuts.

 

I'm not sure what that means, but you only have to look at 2003, when Prior was healthy, the kind of numbers he put up. The 2nd half of 2003 he was just dealing...

[Soriano12]

I healthy Prior will never be better Zambrano.

 

Because Z has something Prior doesn't......a set of nuts.

 

I'm not sure what that means, but you only have to look at 2003, when Prior was healthy, the kind of numbers he put up. The 2nd half of 2003 he was just dealing...

 

I also look back to 2003 when he simply crumbled on the mound in game 6 of the NLCS.

 

Prior doesn't have the killer instinct on the mound that Z has.

[fromthestretch]

I healthy Prior will never be better Zambrano.

 

Because Z has something Prior doesn't......a set of nuts.

 

I'm not sure what that means, but you only have to look at 2003, when Prior was healthy, the kind of numbers he put up. The 2nd half of 2003 he was just dealing...

 

I also look back to 2003 when he simply crumbled on the mound in game 6 of the NLCS.

 

Prior doesn't have the killer instinct on the mound that Z has.

 

You mean like how Zambrano crumbled in the third inning of Game 1?

[C.C.]

I healthy Prior will never be better Zambrano.

 

Because Z has something Prior doesn't......a set of nuts.

 

I'm not sure what that means, but you only have to look at 2003, when Prior was healthy, the kind of numbers he put up. The 2nd half of 2003 he was just dealing...

 

I also look back to 2003 when he simply crumbled on the mound in game 6 of the NLCS.

 

Prior doesn't have the killer instinct on the mound that Z has.

 

Crumbled? Gonzo was the one that crumbled? I think you have your history of that game confused...BTW what did Z do in the playoffs that year?

[Sammy Sofa]

So now Prior is being dismissed because he's maybe not as good/tough/crazy as Z.

 

How inane.

 

If the guy is physically unable to pitch, hey, that's it. If he can, he's without question one of the best pitchers out there. To dismiss him because of this year and write him off for good is absurd. And to blame him and him alone for Game 6 is also ridiculous. He was hardly the only one doing any "crumbling" out there.

 

If he fails, he fails. If he comes back, we're sitting pretty. But trying to determine whether or not he has "stones" like Z is about as asinine a comparison or argument as one could find.

[mg420]

if prior is healthy, who cares if he's better than z or not? they are both on the same team you know.

[Sammy Sofa]

if prior is healthy, who cares if he's better than z or not? they are both on the same team you know.

 

Exactly.

 

It's gotten to the point that it almost seems like people want Prior to fail from here on out because of his previous DL stints so the Cubs can dump him as quickly as possible.

 

There's not a person alive who is a Cubs fan that isn't incredibly let down with how his career has gone thus far, but the brushing him off already as a "wimp" or being "washed up" really is getting ridiculous.