Marmol vs. Marshall vs. Hill...who has the greatest upside

[Soriano12]

just curious.

 

Gonna go with Marmol. Best fastball, plus a pretty nasty slider.

 

Arguments could be made for every one.

 

Marshall #'s would be alot better if not for 2-3 bad outings, but he has given the Cubs a ton of solid starts.

 

 

Hill has been dominant his last 2 starts.

 

 

your thoughts?

[C.C.]

just curious.

 

Gonna go with Marmol. Best fastball, plus a pretty nasty slider.

 

Arguments could be made for every one.

 

Marshall #'s would be alot better if not for 2-3 bad outings, but he has given the Cubs a ton of solid starts.

 

 

Hill has been dominant his last 2 starts.

 

 

your thoughts?

 

Looks like Marmol has the best pure "stuff", but can he learn control? I honestly don't know who has the most upside. Each has their faults and I haven't seen them enough to make that call.

[BeerHere]

Marmol needs control. Too small of a sample for Hill. I'll go with Marshall.

[Guest]

Guzman

[rawaction]

Marshall has the most upside. Marmol has the best stuff. Hill has the best chance of reaching his upside. I'd rank them Marshall, Marmol, Hill in terms of prospect status and upside.

[pitchcs]

I will also say Marmol has the greatest 'upside'. I think that Rich Hill is our best bet for next year.

 

However, I don't believe Marmol will ever reach his potential because of control issues. And because of his age compared to Hill's, I say Marshall will have the best career numbers.

[rawaction]

Guzman

 

That works too. I guess it all depends on your taste.

 

Guzman = Pedro

Marshall = Zito

Veal = Dontrelle

Gallagher = Carpenter/ Lackey

Petrick= Webb

 

Don't really know who to compare Marmol and Hill too.

[Guest]

I will also say Marmol has the greatest 'upside'. I think that Rich Hill is our best bet for next year.

 

However, I don't believe Marmol will ever reach his potential because of control issues. And because of his age compared to Hill's, I say Marshall will have the best career numbers.

Marmol has only been pitching for a few years, though, so I cut him slack on the age thing. It's also likely that his arm hasn't had near the abuse that a lifelong pitcher has had.

[goonys evil twin]

Guzman

 

That works too. I guess it all depends on your taste.

 

Guzman = Pedro

Marshall = Zito

Veal = Dontrelle

Gallagher = Carpenter/ Lackey

Petrick= Webb

 

Don't really know who to compare Marmol and Hill too.

 

I think Hill is more comparable to Zito, as opposed to Marshall. Maybe Marshall is more like Mulder.

[Hacking Out Machine]

Guys that really take off usually have big strikeout numbers in their past. (Santana, Liriano, Kazmir). As a result, I think Hill has the best chance to be a dominator.

[cubweiser03]

Marmols control hasnt really been a problem until he reached the majors. His walk rate in the minors isnt mr. wildthing. His first couple starts in the majors he wasnt bad, its the recent outings that he has walked everybody. Of the 3 i like Marmols stuff the most so i'll go with him. Marshall is one of those guys who will stuggle at first because he doesnt have a dominant pitch yet, overtime i see he using all of his pitches better and being a sub 4.20 era pitcher. I dont know what to say about Hill.

[TheDude]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

[NCCubFan]

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

We wouldn't need a Rusch prototype, since the genuine article is still under contract for one more year. Why settle for an imitation when we have the original? :D

[goonys evil twin]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

 

That's the type of thing I'm hoping for. They have money and arms. Even though they don't have a ton of arms, they have a solid number of them, which is very helpful in making deals.

[badgercub]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

 

That's the type of thing I'm hoping for. They have money and arms. Even though they don't have a ton of arms, they have a solid number of them, which is very helpful in making deals.

 

Just think of the trading assets they would have if they wouldn't have given up so much for slap nasty. Add Nolasco et al to that list and then you would have some serious depth.

 

And as for the discussion as to who has the greater upside... I would tend to agree with Tim I think Guzman (if healthy) has the most potential.

[snoodmonger]

As far as potential goes, I'd rate Marmol the highest of the three because he has the best pure stuff. He's followed closely by Hill.

 

As for the BBs, I believe someone pointed out in a different thread that it's common for pitchers to have some control probs when jumping to the bigs. They're facing better hitters with better K-zone judgement, so tempting pitches off the plate get chased less frequently. Hopefully that's what's going on w/ Marmol.

[rawaction]

As far as potential goes, I'd rate Marmol the highest of the three because he has the best pure stuff. He's followed closely by Hill.

 

As for the BBs, I believe someone pointed out in a different thread that it's common for pitchers to have some control probs when jumping to the bigs. They're facing better hitters with better K-zone judgement, so tempting pitches off the plate get chased less frequently. Hopefully that's what's going on w/ Marmol.

 

He reminds me of Juan Cruz. Didn't really have control problems in the minors because he got a lot of swings and misses on his nasty slider. Marmol is the same way. His movement often puts him out of the zone. Professional hitters will lay off a lot of those pitches. It may get better, but only if he works on it. All signs point to Marmol doing just that, though.

[goonys evil twin]

in the minors because he got a lot of swings and misses on his nasty slider. Marmol is the same way. His movement often puts him out of the zone. Professional hitters will lay off a lot of those pitches.

 

Those minor leaguers are pros too, they get paid.

 

 

Sorry, just a little pet peeve about the phrase professional hitter, it's used for such a wide variety of reasons (guys with great approaches, guys who can make contact with just about anything, guys who aren't that good but have put up consistently above average numbers throughout their career, etc).

[mul21]

Marmol strikes me as kind of a Z type guy. A little struggle with control, power pitcher, pretty good sized guy (obviously not as big as Z), and has wicked movement on his pitches. If he ends up anywhere near Z when (if) he fulfills his potential, thats a great piece of the rotation for years to come.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Guzman

 

Ditto

[Soriano12]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

 

Maybe deal for Jason Bay?

[rocket]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

 

Maybe deal for Jason Bay?

 

if the pirates dealt bay for guzman and marmol the franchise should be destroyed

[Soriano12]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

 

Maybe deal for Jason Bay?

 

if the pirates dealt bay for guzman and marmol the franchise should be destroyed

 

They still like to give away talent. When is Bay eligible for FA anyways?

[Soriano12]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

[Banedon]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

 

Sounds like the Rich Hill discussions a few months back.