Japanese Pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka

[1908]

I think one thing that hurts alot of Asian pitchers that come over to America is that by the time they get over here they're all close to 30, and none of them throw hard.

I think a lot of that can be attributed to the workload they're subjected to in Japan. When Nomo came over as a 26-year-old, he'd already thrown 1,050 innings in 139 games (5 seasons). After his first two season in the majors, his arm was fried.

 

If Matsuzaka's posted this offseason, he'll make his MLB debut at 26. To date, he's thrown 1,347 innings in 197 games (8 seasons).

[Laura]

Ken Rosenthal / Fox Sports[/url]"]

The Yankees will be the clear favorites if, as expected, the Seibu Lions of Japan sell the negotiating rights of right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka to the highest major-league bidder this off-season. The Mariners also would be strongly interested, but the Yankees' economic strength would give them a huge advantage in the "posting" process — and in the negotiations with Matsuzaka's likely agent, Scott Boras. The price for Matsuzaka, 25, could be in the $100 million range — $25 million for his rights, $75 million for a five-year contract ...

 

The Washington Post[/url]"]

The Baltimore Orioles will at least inquire if Japan's Daisuke Matsuzaka, 25, who starred this spring in the World Baseball Classic, is made available by the Seibu Lions this offseason, according to one team official. Matsuzaka is under contract, but there are reports the Lions could put the pitcher up for bid. A team winning the rights to Matsuzaka, 3-0 with a 1.38 ERA in the WBC, would then have to negotiate a deal with him.

 

"Certainly there's interest," said John Stockstill, who is in charge of Baltimore's professional and international scouting. "It's a matter of whether there is comparable interest" from them.

 

The Orioles would be considered long shots to sign Matsuzaka, whose name is most often linked with the New York Yankees and Seattle Mariners. But the Orioles, who recently reached a financial agreement with Comcast in a dispute over the MASN television network, could decide to make a big splash internationally. The Orioles traditionally have not been heavily involved in the Asian market, but that could change.

 

Cubs won't get involved if that's the price tag.

[soccer10k]

Ken Rosenthal / Fox Sports[/url]"]

The Yankees will be the clear favorites if, as expected, the Seibu Lions of Japan sell the negotiating rights of right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka to the highest major-league bidder this off-season. The Mariners also would be strongly interested, but the Yankees' economic strength would give them a huge advantage in the "posting" process — and in the negotiations with Matsuzaka's likely agent, Scott Boras. The price for Matsuzaka, 25, could be in the $100 million range — $25 million for his rights, $75 million for a five-year contract ...

 

Cubs won't get involved if that's the price tag.

 

Wow. That's $20 mil per year for 5 years if you divide up to cost for his rights over the duration of the contract. Yeah, no way he's coming to Chicago. Have fun in New York Daisuke.

[1908]

Rosenthal is blowing smoke on those salary figures. No Japanese player has gotten close to $15M per season initially as a free agent, and a player involved in the posting process has significantly less leverage.

[C.C.]

Rosenthal is blowing smoke on those salary figures. No Japanese player has gotten close to $15M per season initially as a free agent, and a player involved in the posting process has significantly less leverage.

 

Never doubt Scott Boras. I didn't think Beltran was going to get 17 million a season, but I can't see anyone paying a unproven pitcher 20 million a year. That's insane!

[Deeg]

I tend to agree, Rosenthal is FOS on this one. I don't think even the Yanks would drop $100 million on essentially a rookie, albeit a highly polished one. Mind you, he'll still be expensive and the Cubs won't be involved - but no way the rights go for $25 mil. More like $10-12 million, and $36 mil for a four year deal.

[Guest]

A player who comes through the posting process is not a free agent, though. Boras would not be able to play one team off against another, so his negotiating leverage is very low.

[1908]

A player who comes through the posting process is not a free agent, though. Boras would not be able to play one team off against another, so his negotiating leverage is very low.

Yep, if he's posted, it's either sign with the winning bidder or return to the Lions for Matsuzaka. And I can't see Matsuzaka dishonoring Seibu by refusing to sign an MLB contract after Seibu agreed to post him and accepted the top bid. If he wants to maximize his money, he won't agree to be posted and will play the free agent market after the 2007 season.

 

This is all assuming the Lions post him, and I don't think they will.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I think one thing that hurts alot of Asian pitchers that come over to America is that by the time they get over here they're all close to 30, and none of them throw hard.

I think a lot of that can be attributed to the workload they're subjected to in Japan. When Nomo came over as a 26-year-old, he'd already thrown 1,050 innings in 139 games (5 seasons). After his first two season in the majors, his arm was fried.

 

If Matsuzaka's posted this offseason, he'll make his MLB debut at 26. To date, he's thrown 1,347 innings in 197 games (8 seasons).

 

Found this bit interesting:

 

Rotowire[/url]"]The World Baseball Classic MVP has gone 11-4, 2.07 in 18 starts so far this season for Seibu in Japan's Pacific League, with an 0.96 WHIP and an eye-popping 137-to-26 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 130.1 innings. Although Matsuzaka has topped 120 pitches in nine of his 18 starts this season, he regularly pitches on six days' rest (Seibu almost always has one off day every week on its schedule, and it usually employs a six-man rotation), so despite the high pitch counts, Matsuzaka may not be dealing with as heavy a workload in Japan as people first thought. Unofficially, Matsuzaka has thrown 1,967 pitches so far this season in Japan; through Wednesday, 78 different MLB pitchers have thrown 2,000 or more pitches this season.

[1908]

Rotowire[/url]"]Unofficially, Matsuzaka has thrown 1,967 pitches so far this season in Japan; through Wednesday, 78 different MLB pitchers have thrown 2,000 or more pitches this season.

That is interesting but they play fewer games in Japan and it doesn't appear that Rotoworld is taking that into account. For instance, Matsuzaka has throw 1,967 pitches in 18 starts this year, which is a about 110 pitches per start. Zambrano has thrown 2,265 pitches in 26 starts, which is about 87 pitches per start. Livan Hernandez has thrown 2526 pitches in 24 starts, which is about 105 pitches per start.

[1908]

Rotowire[/url]"]... Matsuzaka has topped 120 pitches in nine of his 18 starts this season ...

Zambrano has topped 120 pitches in 6 of his 26 starts.

 

Hernandez has topped 120 pitches in 2 of his 24 starts

 

Jason Schmidt, who has also averaged about 110 pitches per start this season, has topped 120 pitches in 4 of his 24 starts.

 

It's ludicrous for Rotoworld to try to diminish Matsuzaka's work load this year, and he was working like this five years ago when he was 20 years old.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Rotowire[/url]"]Unofficially, Matsuzaka has thrown 1,967 pitches so far this season in Japan; through Wednesday, 78 different MLB pitchers have thrown 2,000 or more pitches this season.

That is interesting but they play fewer games in Japan and it doesn't appear that Rotoworld is taking that into account. For instance, Matsuzaka has throw 1,967 pitches in 18 starts this year, which is a about 110 pitches per start. Zambrano has thrown 2,265 pitches in 26 starts, which is about 87 pitches per start. Livan Hernandez has thrown 2526 pitches in 24 starts, which is about 105 pitches per start.

 

Just for clarification, Z has thrown 112.2 pitches per start, or 2917 pitches this season.

 

That's a good point, although pitching on 6-days rest might (not sure what a combination of 2 extra days of rest but more pitches will necessarily do) help combat that. But he'd have to get used to pitching on 4-days rest here, which might actually hurt.

[1908]

Just for clarification, Z has thrown 112.2 pitches per start, or 2917 pitches this season.

Right, neglected to add his August numbers. So Z has averaged a couple more pitches per start and Matsunaka has throw over 120 pitches three more times in eight fewer starts. I'm not feeling any better about either pitcher's workload.

 

That's a good point, although pitching on 6-days rest might (not sure what a combination of 2 extra days of rest but more pitches will necessarily do) help combat that. But he'd have to get used to pitching on 4-days rest here, which might actually hurt.

The 6-days rest is mostly a product of playing fewer games over a similar time span to MLB. And Japanese starters typically throw on every one of their off days.

[DiamondMind]

The gyroball is hardly much more than a fabrication by the western media. It's just a modified curveball similar to Maddux' retreating cutter. This is the MLB we are talking about, and 2-3 times around is enough for hitters to adapt to the pitch. Besides, he'll sign with Seattle or NY due to their Japanese advertising, there's literally no carrot on a stick for him to sign in Chicago.

[1908]

Besides, he'll sign with Seattle or NY due to their Japanese advertising, there's literally no carrot on a stick for him to sign in Chicago.

If he's posted, he'll sign with the team that placed the highest bid or he won't play MLB ball next year.

[Deeg]

The gyroball is hardly much more than a fabrication by the western media. It's just a modified curveball similar to Maddux' retreating cutter. This is the MLB we are talking about, and 2-3 times around is enough for hitters to adapt to the pitch. Besides, he'll sign with Seattle or NY due to their Japanese advertising, there's literally no carrot on a stick for him to sign in Chicago.

 

That's a myth perpetrated by Will Carroll (which he's since recanted) - that Maddux cutter is actually a shuuto, a totally different pitch. How many guys actually throw a gyroball is a matter of debate, and nobody throws it often - but Matsuzaka does use it on occasion. Even if he didn't, he'd still be a stud.

[Mephistopheles]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/14/AR2006081401361.html

 

Baltimore looks to be interest.

 

and here:

 

http://www.japanbaseballdaily.com/pacificleague8-28-2006.html

 

Team president Hidekazu Ota said Monday that if the fans support it that he will allow ace Daisuke Matsuzaka to be posted.

 

There could be something else at work here, too: money. With the outstanding numbers the righthander is putting up, he will no doubt demand a huge raise after the season is over. The Seibu Group is cashed strapped and with the figures of between $20-30 million being bandied about for Matsuzaka's posting fee and not having to pay Matsuzaka's salary next season since that will be done by Seattle or the Yankees or Arizona or whoever else, this is a huge winner for them financially in the short term. They could pay their entire player payroll with that fee and still have some money leftover like what happened when Orix put Ichiro up on the block.

 

Oh, and Daisuke Matsuzaka started last night:

 

9 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 14 K, 1 BB

 

That is his third 14 K game of the season and came after a K SO start. This year he has had

 

1 10 K games

2 11 K games

2 12 K games

1 13 K games

3 14 K games

[Soriano12]

hmmm Maybe the Cubs can get this guy...lets think....he has the potential to be a marketing cash cow.....the Cubs have the power of the WGN Superstation. So if he pitched for the Cubs he get alot of exposure.

 

There is money to be made here.

 

:?:

[da bears]

Cubs won't get him. In fact, if they even get involved I'll be shocked.

[Laura]

Rotowire[/url]"] Matsuzaka was hit hard in his final regular season start of the year Tuesday, giving up six runs in five innings (seven hits, four walks, three strikeouts on 76 pitches) as Seibu lost to Lotte 6-2 in Japan's Pacific League.

 

After easily his worst outing of the season, Matsuzaka finishes the year with a 17-5, 2.13 record (0.93 WHIP, 200 strikeouts in 186.1 innings); his ERA had been 1.89 before Tuesday's outing. Seibu could have clinched the PL regular season title and a bye with a win; depending on other results, Seibu now likely will finish second and would have to play in the first round of the PL playoffs, scheduled to begin on October 7. Matsuzaka pitched on his normal six days' rest on Tuesday, but he had thrown 145 pitches in his previous start, his heaviest workload of the year.

 

From last week's Dallas Morning News:

 

Scouting Matsuzaka: The Rangers appear to be moving forward with plans to pursue pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka, who could be "posted" by his Japanese club this winter. Director of professional and international scouting A.J. Preller recently returned from a trip to see Matsuzaka pitch for Seibu. The Rangers may make another scouting expedition before the end of the Japanese season.

 

If "posted," teams can submit a sealed bid for his negotiating rights. Matsuzaka's Japanese team, Seibu, would accept the highest bid, giving that team exclusive negotiating rights with the pitcher. If he does not end up signing, the major league club would receive its bid money back.

[1908]

If "posted," teams can submit a sealed bid for his negotiating rights. Matsuzaka's Japanese team, Seibu, would accept the highest bid, giving that team exclusive negotiating rights with the pitcher. If he does not end up signing, the major league club would receive its bid money back.

So close. A Japanese team posting a player is free to accept or reject the highest bid.

[Neuby]

Why pay 20-30 million in posting fee's for this guy plus his salary? We should be able to get Zito and Scmidt for that price.

[soccer10k]

Rotowire[/url]"] Matsuzaka was hit hard in his final regular season start of the year Tuesday, giving up six runs in five innings (seven hits, four walks, three strikeouts on 76 pitches) as Seibu lost to Lotte 6-2 in Japan's Pacific League.

 

After easily his worst outing of the season, Matsuzaka finishes the year with a 17-5, 2.13 record (0.93 WHIP, 200 strikeouts in 186.1 innings); his ERA had been 1.89 before Tuesday's outing. Seibu could have clinched the PL regular season title and a bye with a win; depending on other results, Seibu now likely will finish second and would have to play in the first round of the PL playoffs, scheduled to begin on October 7. Matsuzaka pitched on his normal six days' rest on Tuesday, but he had thrown 145 pitches in his previous start, his heaviest workload of the year.

 

There is one number that stood out for me there: 145.

 

EDIT: Does anybody have his pitch counts for the season and maybe his pitches per start?

[Laura]

There is one number that stood out for me there: 145.

 

EDIT: Does anybody have his pitch counts for the season and maybe his pitches per start?

 

If you read back through this thread, you'll see discussion of his average pitches/start and pitch counts for specific games.

 

I don't know where to find a per start pitch count for the Japanese leagues.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Zito please. Proven commodity. Cheaper.