When Does Pierre's performance start to win people over?

moorecg · August 3, 2006

I'm not sold...but his last 2+ months are worthy of note. Just wondering how much more solid production before people become comfortable with bringing him back? Does it ever happen?

goonys evil twin · August 3, 2006

My dislike for Pierre goes beyond his disastrous April and May, and is based on a career of not goodness. I think he is going to be incredibly overpaid due to the fact that so many baseball people feel the need to have a stereotypical leadoff hitter, instead of the 8 best hitters (9 for AL) you can find. I'm not sure what he'd have to do, but his numbers would have to be much much higher than they are now to have me think of bringing him back. And/or his cost would have to go down.

Jon · August 3, 2006

His first two months were worthy of note, as well.

His July production (.345/.380/.496) brought his numbers up to .277/.324/.376. Still quite bad. I don't expect those to improve much the rest of the way.

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

I been on the Pierre bandwagon since the trade. He is a hard worker, and plays everyday. What more can you ask for? I think Pierre will be the CF next for the Cubs, and I dont have a problem with that.

dalgreen · August 3, 2006

I'm generally skeptical of players who perform well in their contract year, anyway. Add to that, that Pierre still doesn't know how to get on base enough to justify his being a leadoff hitter. That being said, his agent will tell Hendry, "Juan finished the seaon in the top ten in total hits...." and Hendry will buy that and re-sign him, disregarding his poor OBP for the third (or maybe 4th) straight season. Just to show how total hits can be overrated, we have a player on our team who finished one year with more than 200 hits, yet finished under .300. Why? Because the idiot had over 700 official at-bats because he refused to get a walk.

Jon · August 3, 2006

We can ask for a centerfielder who, to put it bluntly, doesn't suck at the plate. He's also not very good defensively, leaving him with little to offer any big league team.

dalgreen · August 3, 2006

I can ask for a leadoff hitter who can at least work the count beyond seeing 2-3 pitches and have an on-base percentage of at least .350.

Chocolate Milk · August 3, 2006

I can do both those things. I'll play for 4/17.

moorecg · August 3, 2006

I'd agree with that...but all things considered, he's put up fairly solid numbers over the last 2 months...as you noted, that doesn't make up for the rest of his career, but the rest of his career is a .300 hitter and a .350+ obp...and he's had seasons much better than that.

He started of HORRIBLE this year, but he's in the "prime" (age wise) of his career...if he could consistently put up a .350-.375 obp for the rest of the year I could be talked into resigning him. Over his career he's had more years with an OBP over .350 than he has had under...its not outstanding, but considering the alterntatives this off season it's not god awful.

Soul · August 3, 2006

What more? I ask for production when the games count for one.

I think you're right though, with all the gaping holes on this club, Pierre comes back.

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Pierre should have his OBP above .350 by the end of the year. There isnt really any leadoff hitter on the FA market. They are really hard to find. So from saying that, I expect to see Pierre in CF next year, and I dont have a problem with that.

CubColtPacer · August 3, 2006

How is Pierre supposed to work the count? It's not like he's heading up there swinging. In fact, he finished 8th in the league last year in taking the 1st pitch-he only swung 11.4 percent of the time. The only reason that he doesn't see all that many pitches is that he doesn't swing and miss very often and doesn't foul that many pitches off-which means that he's likely to put his first swing in play.

moorecg · August 3, 2006

Hijacking my own thread...in a similar vein, (and ignoring for a second that Dusty would never do anything smart) why wouldnt' Matt Murton be a solid option in the 2 hole? He's hitting .280+ with a .350+ obp, he had a bad June but other than that his numbers (except for power) have been very good, if you left him in LF and signed a Soriano and let him play 2nd you'd have an interesting combination.

Transmogrified Tiger · August 3, 2006

Pierre's P/PA is 75th of 90 qualified NL'ers, 141 of 178 MLB'ers.

There's nothing Pierre can do that will make it worth it to bring him back. He's proven his entire career that he's not that great, and has been quite bad with some regulatity.

NorthsideAvenger · August 3, 2006

In theory I appauded the move for Pierre, because I was tired of the station-to-station type ball the Cubs org had implored for years. So, in theory Juan Pierre was going to help the Cubs. Unfortunately, his impact has been minimum, to say the least. And what he is making, his impact needed to be bigger and it wasn't.

So unless Pierre settles for a deal in the 3-4 mill for atmost 2 years, I would rather see the Cubs move on, and see if they could acquire a guy like Freel.

dalgreen · August 3, 2006

Maybe you haven't seen as many of his at-bats as I have, but I've definitely seen him make many outs on balls that weren't strikes.

Jon · August 3, 2006

Let's say he finishes with 650 ABs (will likely be a tad higher). With a .327 OBP through 451 ABs, he'll need a .402 OBP the rest of the way just to finish at .350. Not going to happen.

I'd expect it to finish somewhere between .320 and .330 thanks to his July numbers.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Jon

bhogg · August 3, 2006

Realistically, who would be other options for hitting lead off next season?

dalgreen · August 3, 2006

I don't know, but that's what trades are for. It shouldn't be hard to find a lead-off guy with a .330 OBP who is cheaper than Pierre. If Pierre had more of a recent history of a .350+ OBP, I'd be on board with re-signing him.

sherwood921 · August 3, 2006

There are plenty of minor leaguers who "work hard, and play everyday" but that doesn't mean I want them to be my center fielder and leadoff hitter. I'm sure Juan's a great guy and all, but the fact of the matter is that he doesn't get on base enough to justify him making the kind of money he will be making. When you consider the fact that he will be hitting in the spot where OBP is most important, it only compounds things.

baseball7897 · August 3, 2006

Leadoff hitters are hard to find. You cant just go out and make a trade for one. Not many teams will deal their leadoff hitter.

Transmogrified Tiger · August 3, 2006

People who would be good leadoff hitters are not as scarce as you are making it out to be.

rocket · August 3, 2006

Matt Murton would be just fine as a leadoff hitter if Pierre didn't come back.

sethuel1 · August 3, 2006

I can also do those things, and I'll play for $4.17

CubColtPacer · August 3, 2006

Yes, he actually would. I would just then have 2 questions:

1) How does Matt feel about batting leadoff? That's something that we can't really know-some hitters are just not cut out for batting leadoff. From our vantage point, it would be hard to tell if Murton is one of them or if he is comfortable in that role.

2)Who do we sign to play center? I'm not sure what options there are that could be had, or how much it would take.

When Does Pierre's performance start to win people over?

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