Dempster playing hurt?

[Schwarber Fan]

Seriuosly, he was DOMINANT at the beginning of the year and last year as well. There is something wrong with him. Is it possible he is playing hurt? I've given up on him as a closer unless he is hurt.

[abuck1220]

he's right about in line w/ his career numbers. i don't know why everyone's so surprised.

[Brian]

Eyre for closer.

[hawkeyecub]

he's right about in line w/ his career numbers. i don't know why everyone's so surprised.

 

He is?

 

He's not at all in line with his numbers as a reliever.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

he's right about in line w/ his career numbers. i don't know why everyone's so surprised.

 

He is?

 

He's not at all in line with his numbers as a reliever.

 

His numbers as a reliever are less than 60 innings prior to this year, not a whole lot.

[hawkeyecub]

he's right about in line w/ his career numbers. i don't know why everyone's so surprised.

 

He is?

 

He's not at all in line with his numbers as a reliever.

 

His numbers as a reliever are less than 60 innings prior to this year, not a whole lot.

 

True, but it's also a much different game pitching as a short reliever compared to a starter and that's evidenced by the many successful closers/set-up men who were failed starters.

He wasn't going to stay on the pace he was at during the 30+ inning scoreless streak and 25 consecutive saves, but he's also a better relief pitcher than he's shown in the last month.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Seriuosly, he was DOMINANT at the beginning of the year and last year as well. There is something wrong with him. Is it possible he is playing hurt? I've given up on him as a closer unless he is hurt.

 

When you don't work as often as a closer is needing to be worked, you struggle.

[stuy119]

Seriuosly, he was DOMINANT at the beginning of the year and last year as well. There is something wrong with him. Is it possible he is playing hurt? I've given up on him as a closer unless he is hurt.

 

When you don't work as often as a closer is needing to be worked, you struggle.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, we have our winner!

[Brothaman33]

ROBERTO NOVOA

[Backtobanks]

Let's hope it's not the second coming of Joe Borowski. Both did a great job while scaring us to death and then started losing it quickly (Borowski ended with an injury).

[abuck1220]

he's right about in line w/ his career numbers. i don't know why everyone's so surprised.

 

He is?

 

He's not at all in line with his numbers as a reliever.

 

His numbers as a reliever are less than 60 innings prior to this year, not a whole lot.

 

True, but it's also a much different game pitching as a short reliever compared to a starter and that's evidenced by the many successful closers/set-up men who were failed starters.

He wasn't going to stay on the pace he was at during the 30+ inning scoreless streak and 25 consecutive saves, but he's also a better relief pitcher than he's shown in the last month.

 

what makes you think the relatively few good relief innings are the norm while the relatively few bad relief innings are not? it's not like he's racked up 200 fantastic relief innings that dwarf his recent struggles.

 

and i would not say that there have been "many" successful closers/set up men that were failed starters.

[Caryatid]

 

and i would not say that there have been "many" successful closers/set up men that were failed starters.

 

The following were failed starters at the MLB level before moving to closer:

Eric Gagne

Joe Nathan

Brad Lidge

Jason Isringhausen

Tom Gordon

Ryan Dempster

Bob Wickman

Mariano Rivera

 

These players were failed starters in the minors (minimum 2 seasons as starter) who were moved to closer:

Bobby Jenks

Derrick Turnbow

Billy Wagner

Chris Ray

Eddie Guardado

Brian Fuentes

Francisco Rodriguez

[Transmogrified Tiger]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

[rynefan]

I don't care about anything but getting him out of the closer role. He's not working, whatever the reason... hurt, not a closer, etc. How many games does he have to blow before they will pull him? It's sick.

[cubfan1955]

I don't care about anything but getting him out of the closer role. He's not working, whatever the reason... hurt, not a closer, etc. How many games does he have to blow before they will pull him? It's sick.

I have to agree. He is not overpowering and he walks too many people.

[Banedon]

I have a buddy at work that is a Cardinal fan, and even though he secretly loves that the Cubs are sucking, he can see the same things we all see are wrong with this team....anyway...he told me at the beginning of this year that Dempster was bad, and even though he was on his saves streak, he would come back down to being "Ryan Dempster". That's always his argument about it to. "It's Ryan Freaking Dempster!"

[Caryatid]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

 

I believe that is exactly the point.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

 

I believe that is exactly the point.

 

Then I don't understand what it is. There are many pitchers who fail at starting and then go on to be relievers. Some of them become good relievers, some bad. What makes Dempster more likely to be among the good relievers?

[imb]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

 

I believe that is exactly the point.

 

Then I don't understand what it is. There are many pitchers who fail at starting and then go on to be relievers. Some of them become good relievers, some bad. What makes Dempster more likely to be among the good relievers?

 

dont you see? because that is exactly the point

[Pinktermite]

This amazes me, a guy does poorly (on a really poor team) and we're ready to throw him to the dogs. You guys on here that criticize everything think that every time someone fails he should be DFA'd or traded or gotten rid of.

 

Dempster has done well up to this point in time. He doesn't get enough work to be a good closer because the team sucks. So many things suck about this team...as we all know.

 

Dempster is fine...he just needs to pitch more often with the game on the line. A guy doesn't save 20 something games in a row and be so bad. Lay off him and concentrate on the real things wrong with this team. Geez!

[Sammy Sofa]

I think I started a thread asking the same question this one is about a month ago. Something is up with the guy...I don't know if it's being on such a crappy team, his wife having a baby recently, he's injured, or just having a couple blown saves rattled him too much, but something is tweeked. Plenty of people talk about it, but it never gets any less true...being a solid, reliable closer really reqires having the mental "stuff" to do it along with the pitching, and Demp's biggest strengths when he's on is that he doesn't lose it when things seem to get out of hand. For whatever reason, that doesn't seem to be the case now.

 

That said, I'd rather see the team stick with him and attempt to get him more regular use to see if he can get out of it. Bottom line, the season is wash, and letting Dempster try and right his ship either keeps the team with a good closer or at least repairs his rep enough to get some good returns if he's traded. Tossing him out now is pointless, unless it's to showcase Kerry Wood: Supercloser...and that ain't happening any time soon.

 

And though I haven't seen it here too much, man, there are some pretty big Cubs blogs out there just loving it up when Dempster fails. Their "told you so" attitude is disgusting...yeah, Dempster doesn't have a long storied career as a closer or in relief, but at this point his time as an excellent closer far outweighs how many times he's tanked it. Why just give up on him so quickly?

Edited July 2, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[Caryatid]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

 

I believe that is exactly the point.

 

Then I don't understand what it is. There are many pitchers who fail at starting and then go on to be relievers. Some of them become good relievers, some bad. What makes Dempster more likely to be among the good relievers?

 

If you'll note the quote I was responding to...

 

abuck wrote that "i would not say that there have been "many" successful closers/set up men that were failed starters." My response refuted that, while also making the larger point that OF COURSE there are many failed starters that become relievers, because most relievers were starters. Whether or not that means they will be good or bad had nothing to do with my post-I simply was addressing the quote that there have "not been many successful closers that were failed starters."

 

But thanks for the condescention from whomever piled on after TT's response.

[abuck1220]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

 

I believe that is exactly the point.

 

Then I don't understand what it is. There are many pitchers who fail at starting and then go on to be relievers. Some of them become good relievers, some bad. What makes Dempster more likely to be among the good relievers?

 

If you'll note the quote I was responding to...

 

abuck wrote that "i would not say that there have been "many" successful closers/set up men that were failed starters." My response refuted that, while also making the larger point that OF COURSE there are many failed starters that become relievers, because most relievers were starters. Whether or not that means they will be good or bad had nothing to do with my post-I simply was addressing the quote that there have "not been many successful closers that were failed starters."

 

But thanks for the condescention from whomever piled on after TT's response.

 

now list all the failed starters who also failed as reliever. that task may take a while b/c that list is 8 billion people long.

[Sammy Sofa]

Not to try and explain away Dempster's game today (his biggest mistake was not going after Dye having him down 1-2), but why the funk did Dusty leave Cedeno in at SS in the 9th? Yeah, blah-blah-blah, I hate Neifi and get a kick out of watching Cedeno, but a game this close is when Hendry and co.'s asinine "he can catch the ball" thinking would have come in handy. Neifi probably would have made that play that Cedeno booted...ah well...woulda, coulda, shoulda...

[Caryatid]

99% of all relievers failed as starters in the minors. There's no point in listing those guys.

 

I believe that is exactly the point.

 

Then I don't understand what it is. There are many pitchers who fail at starting and then go on to be relievers. Some of them become good relievers, some bad. What makes Dempster more likely to be among the good relievers?

 

If you'll note the quote I was responding to...

 

abuck wrote that "i would not say that there have been "many" successful closers/set up men that were failed starters." My response refuted that, while also making the larger point that OF COURSE there are many failed starters that become relievers, because most relievers were starters. Whether or not that means they will be good or bad had nothing to do with my post-I simply was addressing the quote that there have "not been many successful closers that were failed starters."

 

But thanks for the condescention from whomever piled on after TT's response.

 

now list all the failed starters who also failed as reliever. that task may take a while b/c that list is 8 billion people long.

 

That's fine. But its also correct that many failed starters have become effective relievers. It was an accurate statement.