Still confused about Prior

[srbin84]

Seriously, you don't make any sense whatsoever. You want to give Prior the benefit of the doubt when does bad but praise him when he does good. That's b.s. Hold him accountable for his actions or blame it on Dusty, accept what Dusty did and get rid of him.

 

What are the actions I'm supposed to hold him accountable for? Not being great? Being injured? Having setbacks after being overused at a very young age?

 

Okay.

 

Mark Prior, you dastardly fiend, how dare you get injured and have setbacks. Now get back in there and get better today, there is no room for gradual improvements. This is baseball, nobody ever takes time to improve, or get back to health, and nobody ever suffers setbacks.

 

Like I said, just tell me how many years he gets to recover.

 

None of us are doctors, how are we to know? We do know it's too soon to give up on him. He's only 25, his velocity is already back and he's shown lots signs of rebounding to his old form.

 

Well, how many years in your non-medical but baseball fan opinion would you give him before you conceded that it's time to trade him. If he regains form, we keep him, of course. I'm just wondering how you guys think about this situation because it's very confusing to me. That's all I wanted to know.

[badger1679666666]

Then just tell me how much time he gets to recover because it obviously is more than 3 years.

 

Wow are you this obtuse? He's had other non-dusty related setbacks during that team which have only magnified and excerbated the situation. Is it that hard to see or is your raging hard-on for getting rid of Prior that dominating?

 

Come on badger, there's no need for that.

 

sorry. i couldn't think of a synonym

 

:?

[Big Fergie J]

Roy Halladay was plagued with arm problems his first couple of years of MLB service and now he is a dominant pitcher. He's 29 this year and in his prime.

 

Prior will only be 26 this year and I believe he will be a solid Halladay-type pitcher. Misuse probably contributed to the injuries but I'm assuming he's smarter now and will make the appropriate changes regardless of what Dusty does or doesn't do.

 

I don't want to trade Prior....but that's just my opinion.

[badger1679666666]

Seriously, you don't make any sense whatsoever. You want to give Prior the benefit of the doubt when does bad but praise him when he does good. That's b.s. Hold him accountable for his actions or blame it on Dusty, accept what Dusty did and get rid of him.

 

What are the actions I'm supposed to hold him accountable for? Not being great? Being injured? Having setbacks after being overused at a very young age?

 

Okay.

 

Mark Prior, you dastardly fiend, how dare you get injured and have setbacks. Now get back in there and get better today, there is no room for gradual improvements. This is baseball, nobody ever takes time to improve, or get back to health, and nobody ever suffers setbacks.

 

Like I said, just tell me how many years he gets to recover.

 

None of us are doctors, how are we to know? We do know it's too soon to give up on him. He's only 25, his velocity is already back and he's shown lots signs of rebounding to his old form.

 

Well, how many years in your non-medical but baseball fan opinion would you give him before you conceded that it's time to trade him. If he regains form, we keep him, of course. I'm just wondering how you guys think about this situation because it's very confusing to me. That's all I wanted to know.

 

I'd give him until we lose control of him after 2009. He's got the potential to be a cy young ace, and I don't want that going anywhere. It's not like he's costing us an arm and a leg.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

This thread is about why I think it's wrong to both blame Dusty for ruining him and wanting to keep him. Wrong if you want the Cubs to win anyway. Now people are saying he's possibly ruined just the early part of his career. I can accept that possibility; I'm just wondering how many years that would constituted in your and likeminded people's opinions.

 

It's not a set amount of time/years folks give Prior to rebound. It's partly that he's still young and has showns signs of rebounding to his previous form and also that his trade value is at an all time low. There's no point in giving up on him if his trade value is so low, especially when positive signs are showing up.

[srbin84]

Then just tell me how much time he gets to recover because it obviously is more than 3 years.

 

Wow are you this obtuse? He's had other non-dusty related setbacks during that team which have only magnified and excerbated the situation. Is it that hard to see or is your raging hard-on for getting rid of Prior that dominating?

 

This thread is about why I think it's wrong to both blame Dusty for ruining him and wanting to keep him. Wrong if you want the Cubs to win anyway. Now people are saying he's possibly ruined just the early part of his career. I can accept that possibility; I'm just wondering how many years that would constituted in your and likeminded people's opinions.

 

I understand what you're asking, but I think it's an unanswerable question. As someone else pointed out his velocity is rebounding (I saw him hit 93 serveral times in Minneapolis) and his stuff is coming back in only his second start...

 

No one knows how long to wait, but he's still too young, and his trade value is TOO low to give up on him.

 

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

[BigbadB]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd give him until we lose control of him after 2009. He's got the potential to be a cy young ace, and I don't want that going anywhere. It's not like he's costing us an arm and a leg.

 

I'd pull the deal on a trigger tomorrow for a pre-prime stud hitter. I'd probably pull the trigger for something less prior to him leaving via free agency if nothing improves between now and then. But considering they control him for a while now, and that he isn't going to be breaking the bank anytime soon, I'd be giving him plenty of time to improve.

[srbin84]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

 

I'm not saying trade him today but very soon. There are a lot of stupid GMs in baseball and Mark Prior is a name player. Now I said stupid, not completely brain dead. I don't have access to what value players have because I'm not a GM. Based on the stupid trades I've seen before, I think if Prior were to put a few really good games together, you could find a team that would give you a very useful player in return for him this year. Now, if that stretch of very good games does come and the trade presents itself, I'd take it. If you don't make that trade, you have to be prepared to wait until his free agency and see what he's done. If you do that, he could leave the team as a free agent if he's good, resign or never have recovered and be useless. I think that's one heck of a gamble to make. We're already assuming he would stay here if he does recover, and even then we don't know if he ever will recover. There's so many variables involved that it just doesn't seem smart to me to take that risk. If they did, of course I would hope that it would work out even though I wouldn't think it would.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

 

I'm not saying trade him today but very soon. There are a lot of stupid GMs in baseball and Mark Prior is a name player. Now I said stupid, not completely brain dead. I don't have access to what value players have because I'm not a GM. Based on the stupid trades I've seen before, I think if Prior were to put a few really good games together, you could find a team that would give you a very useful player in return for him this year. Now, if that stretch of very good games does come and the trade presents itself, I'd take it. If you don't make that trade, you have to be prepared to wait until his free agency and see what he's done. If you do that, he could leave the team as a free agent if he's good, resign or never have recovered and be useless. I think that's one heck of a gamble to make. We're already assuming he would stay here if he does recover, and even then we don't know if he ever will recover. There's so many variables involved that it just doesn't seem smart to me to take that risk. If they did, of course I would hope that it would work out even though I wouldn't think it would.

 

Indeed, that's the risk you're taking. But keeping in mind that he's not a FA until after 2008, he's still relatively cheap, he has a high potential and is recovering from those injuries, and his trade value is extremely low right now, it's a gamble I am more than willing to make. And if you come back to the trade scenario after a few solid starts...well then, he's probably nearing that great potential of his so I better be blown away with any trade offers.

[Caryatid]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

 

I'm not saying trade him today but very soon. There are a lot of stupid GMs in baseball and Mark Prior is a name player. Now I said stupid, not completely brain dead. I don't have access to what value players have because I'm not a GM. Based on the stupid trades I've seen before, I think if Prior were to put a few really good games together, you could find a team that would give you a very useful player in return for him this year. Now, if that stretch of very good games does come and the trade presents itself, I'd take it. If you don't make that trade, you have to be prepared to wait until his free agency and see what he's done. If you do that, he could leave the team as a free agent if he's good, resign or never have recovered and be useless. I think that's one heck of a gamble to make. We're already assuming he would stay here if he does recover, and even then we don't know if he ever will recover. There's so many variables involved that it just doesn't seem smart to me to take that risk. If they did, of course I would hope that it would work out even though I wouldn't think it would.

 

In an ESPN.com article dated about three weeks ago, an anonymous GM was quoted as saying the only thing you could get from Prior right now is a "B" prospect. Couple that with Hendry's inability to judge minor league talent, Prior's cost and the fact that he's tied up until '08, and there's no reason to trade him now.

 

 

There should be some sort of rule a GM follows that says "with very few exceptions, if a player is 'hot' and under 30, don't trade him in season. If a player is 'hot' and over thirty, deal him July 1st."

[Shavo]

Trading Prior is dumb now or ever, because he is sexy and a very good pitcher.

[srbin84]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

 

I'm not saying trade him today but very soon. There are a lot of stupid GMs in baseball and Mark Prior is a name player. Now I said stupid, not completely brain dead. I don't have access to what value players have because I'm not a GM. Based on the stupid trades I've seen before, I think if Prior were to put a few really good games together, you could find a team that would give you a very useful player in return for him this year. Now, if that stretch of very good games does come and the trade presents itself, I'd take it. If you don't make that trade, you have to be prepared to wait until his free agency and see what he's done. If you do that, he could leave the team as a free agent if he's good, resign or never have recovered and be useless. I think that's one heck of a gamble to make. We're already assuming he would stay here if he does recover, and even then we don't know if he ever will recover. There's so many variables involved that it just doesn't seem smart to me to take that risk. If they did, of course I would hope that it would work out even though I wouldn't think it would.

 

In an ESPN.com article dated about three weeks ago, an anonymous GM was quoted as saying the only thing you could get from Prior right now is a "B" prospect. Couple that with Hendry's inability to judge minor league talent, Prior's cost and the fact that he's tied up until '08, and there's no reason to trade him now.

 

 

There should be some sort of rule a GM follows that says "with very few exceptions, if a player is 'hot' and under 30, don't trade him in season. If a player is 'hot' and over thirty, deal him July 1st."

 

I saw that quote. I don't know if it is 100% true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I guess we don't know how much a very good couple weeks in a row would change that either. As for your theory, I agree with it, but I also think that when you have an under 30 player who has been injured as much as Prior, you should add a few years onto his age for those purposes. If you have a 2003 Ferrari, it isn't exactly the same if it's been salvaged.

[Shilzzz]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

 

I'm not saying trade him today but very soon. There are a lot of stupid GMs in baseball and Mark Prior is a name player. Now I said stupid, not completely brain dead. I don't have access to what value players have because I'm not a GM. Based on the stupid trades I've seen before, I think if Prior were to put a few really good games together, you could find a team that would give you a very useful player in return for him this year. Now, if that stretch of very good games does come and the trade presents itself, I'd take it. If you don't make that trade, you have to be prepared to wait until his free agency and see what he's done. If you do that, he could leave the team as a free agent if he's good, resign or never have recovered and be useless. I think that's one heck of a gamble to make. We're already assuming he would stay here if he does recover, and even then we don't know if he ever will recover. There's so many variables involved that it just doesn't seem smart to me to take that risk. If they did, of course I would hope that it would work out even though I wouldn't think it would.

 

In an ESPN.com article dated about three weeks ago, an anonymous GM was quoted as saying the only thing you could get from Prior right now is a "B" prospect. Couple that with Hendry's inability to judge minor league talent, Prior's cost and the fact that he's tied up until '08, and there's no reason to trade him now.

 

 

There should be some sort of rule a GM follows that says "with very few exceptions, if a player is 'hot' and under 30, don't trade him in season. If a player is 'hot' and over thirty, deal him July 1st."

 

I saw that quote. I don't know if it is 100% true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I guess we don't know how much a very good couple weeks in a row would change that either. As for your theory, I agree with it, but I also think that when you have an under 30 player who has been injured as much as Prior, you should add a few years onto his age for those purposes. If you have a 2003 Ferrari, it isn't exactly the same if it's been salvaged.

 

he isn't a car, and that analogy makes no sense. when you buy a new car, it would be assumed that it's at it's best when it's brand new right off the lot because as soon as it leaves the lot it loses value.

 

a baseball player, grows and learns his trade, becoming better the more knowledgeable he becomes on the strikezone, the league, how to attack different players, etc etc.

 

though i will say there are some players who are great in their rookie year, and then the book gets out on them(as dusty would say), ie jerome walton & dwight smith, i think it would be ignorant to put mark prior into that class.

 

but to compare a baseball player to a car is stretching it.

 

i guess i don't understand some things: why do you hate mark prior so much? and why do you love to argue all the time?

[srbin84]

Well, I know it's very low, but I also really believe that if the Cubs end up getting nothing out of this asset, whether it's a player in return or Prior pitching like he used to again, it's going to take even longer to win a world series or even improve the record.

 

If the Cubs banked all of their World Series hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher, then they should be fired for banking all their hopes on 1 every 5th day pitcher. This team is not in the toilet because of Mark Prior.

 

If he isn't worth anything to the Cubs and therefore tradeable for whatever they can get for him, what exactly makes him worth anything to any other team for them to be dumb enough to offer something for him? Simple question.

 

I'm not saying trade him today but very soon. There are a lot of stupid GMs in baseball and Mark Prior is a name player. Now I said stupid, not completely brain dead. I don't have access to what value players have because I'm not a GM. Based on the stupid trades I've seen before, I think if Prior were to put a few really good games together, you could find a team that would give you a very useful player in return for him this year. Now, if that stretch of very good games does come and the trade presents itself, I'd take it. If you don't make that trade, you have to be prepared to wait until his free agency and see what he's done. If you do that, he could leave the team as a free agent if he's good, resign or never have recovered and be useless. I think that's one heck of a gamble to make. We're already assuming he would stay here if he does recover, and even then we don't know if he ever will recover. There's so many variables involved that it just doesn't seem smart to me to take that risk. If they did, of course I would hope that it would work out even though I wouldn't think it would.

 

In an ESPN.com article dated about three weeks ago, an anonymous GM was quoted as saying the only thing you could get from Prior right now is a "B" prospect. Couple that with Hendry's inability to judge minor league talent, Prior's cost and the fact that he's tied up until '08, and there's no reason to trade him now.

 

 

There should be some sort of rule a GM follows that says "with very few exceptions, if a player is 'hot' and under 30, don't trade him in season. If a player is 'hot' and over thirty, deal him July 1st."

 

I saw that quote. I don't know if it is 100% true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I guess we don't know how much a very good couple weeks in a row would change that either. As for your theory, I agree with it, but I also think that when you have an under 30 player who has been injured as much as Prior, you should add a few years onto his age for those purposes. If you have a 2003 Ferrari, it isn't exactly the same if it's been salvaged.

 

he isn't a car, and that analogy makes no sense. when you buy a new car, it would be assumed that it's at it's best when it's brand new right off the lot because as soon as it leaves the lot it loses value.

 

a baseball player, grows and learns his trade, becoming better the more knowledgeable he becomes on the strikezone, the league, how to attack different players, etc etc.

 

though i will say there are some players who are great in their rookie year, and then the book gets out on them(as dusty would say), ie jerome walton & dwight smith, i think it would be ignorant to put mark prior into that class.

 

but to compare a baseball player to a car is stretching it.

 

i guess i don't understand some things: why do you hate mark prior so much? and why do you love to argue all the time?

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

[badger1679666666]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

[srbin84]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

[treebird]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

be the best pitcher in the majors for a year and a half and you'll be okay with him?

 

i'm pretty sure that's too high a standard.

[srbin84]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

be the best pitcher in the majors for a year and a half and you'll be okay with him?

 

i'm pretty sure that's too high a standard.

 

He set it.

[imb]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

be the best pitcher in the majors for a year and a half and you'll be okay with him?

 

i'm pretty sure that's too high a standard.

 

He set it.

 

you set it. He did all that before all the injuries, abused by dusty or not.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell you're asking.

 

"Livan Hernandez...will you be my valentine?"

[Sammy Sofa]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

[srbin84]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

 

I want to see him pitch at or close to what he's capable of. Z does it every year.

[srbin84]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell you're asking.

 

"Livan Hernandez...will you be my valentine?"

 

I knew it wouldn't be a liked question because both answers were undesirable. I just wanted to see what people would say, and I've made my conclusion.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

I was as big a fan of Prior as anybody at one point. I'm soured on him now though. I want the Cubs to win first and foremost. I don't have sentimental value to the names and faces. That's a Moneyball philosophy, actually. As far as arguing goes, that's all that happens on this board. People have different opinions about things and feel strongly about them.

 

[george costanza] Can't you desour? Why can't you desour?[/george costanza]

 

Show me 2003 the rest of this season and all of next season (plus no DL), and I will desour. I don't see it happening, but if it somehow did, I would.

 

So he needs to be the best pitcher in the game or nothing?

 

I want to see him pitch at or close to what he's capable of. Z does it every year.

 

Z's potential is the best pitcher in baseball and he certainly isn't that. By your rules, he needs to step up too.