if the season is really over...

[Shilzzz]

why not go to a six man rotation? let zambrano not have his arm fall off, prior/wood can take it slow, marmol will get some experience as well as marshall, we won't have to pay maddux the extra bonus for innings pitched, heck maybe throw rusch out there every sixth day just to embarrass him to the point that he quits.

 

Zambrano

Prior

Marshall

Marmol

Maddux

Wood/Guzman?

 

i know that the average argument here is, well, you want your best guys out there every fifth day to have the best shot at winning... well, we aren't winning and aren't going to be anytime soon. the trib wouldn't go for this, as they *think* all fans would be mad at any rebuilding, rather preferring to keep whatever wool they can over the general fans' eyes, but speaking realistically, it may be what's best, as we can tell who is who as far as the future of the rotation goes, as wood and maddux will probably both be gone after this season.

 

so for the sake of banter, would you go for this?

[Mark_R]

let zambrano not have his arm fall off

 

Perhaps this is what Dusty means when he's always talking about "finishing the job." Prior, Wood, and Z. Z needs to be less stubborn and just get it over with.

[Shilzzz]

let zambrano not have his arm fall off

 

Perhaps this is what Dusty means when he's always talking about "finishing the job." Prior, Wood, and Z. Z needs to be less stubborn and just get it over with.

 

could you imagine what would happen if z got hurt and needed surgery? :shock:

 

that may be the one thing that could get the entire coaching staff fired.

 

but it's also the last thing i would ever want to happen.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't see the point. The thing that gets us in trouble isn't the days in between pitches, it's how many pitches are thrown in a single outing. Sure an extra day wouldn't hurt, but there's no way we're giving up the crutch/curse of a 7 man pen, and carrying 13 pitchers in the NL would be heinous.

 

Also, Marmol should be replaced with Hill. Carlos needs more seasoning, and if we go to 6 men we better give Hill an extended shot to see if he can cut it.

[Shilzzz]

I don't see the point. The thing that gets us in trouble isn't the days in between pitches, it's how many pitches are thrown in a single outing. Sure an extra day wouldn't hurt, but there's no way we're giving up the crutch/curse of a 7 man pen, and carrying 13 pitchers in the NL would be heinous.

 

Also, Marmol should be replaced with Hill. Carlos needs more seasoning, and if we go to 6 men we better give Hill an extended shot to see if he can cut it.

 

but if there are less games started there are less innings pitched then less pitches thrown. you don't think that less starts/more time to heal would be just as beneficial as less pitches/more outings?

 

just curious.

 

edit: also, this is just my opinion, but marmol has a better chance of success at a major league level than hill, though i too would like to see hill get a real chance over a sustained period of time in the show than those spot starts. a curveball and fastball alone isn't going to cut it.

 

do you realistically see hill as a starter or reliever in the majors?

[Outshined_One]

edit: also, this is just my opinion, but marmol has a better chance of success at a major league level than hill, though i too would like to see hill get a real chance over a sustained period of time in the show than those spot starts. a curveball and fastball alone isn't going to cut it.

 

do you realistically see hill as a starter or reliever in the majors?

 

Marmol also needs to have more time down in the minors to refine his control and secondary pitches.

 

Hill has nothing left to prove in AAA. We might as well throw him into the fire over an extended period and let him take his lumps, for better or worse.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't see the point. The thing that gets us in trouble isn't the days in between pitches, it's how many pitches are thrown in a single outing. Sure an extra day wouldn't hurt, but there's no way we're giving up the crutch/curse of a 7 man pen, and carrying 13 pitchers in the NL would be heinous.

 

Also, Marmol should be replaced with Hill. Carlos needs more seasoning, and if we go to 6 men we better give Hill an extended shot to see if he can cut it.

 

but if there are less games started there are less innings pitched then less pitches thrown. you don't think that less starts/more time to heal would be just as beneficial as less pitches/more outings?

 

just curious.

 

edit: also, this is just my opinion, but marmol has a better chance of success at a major league level than hill, though i too would like to see hill get a real chance over a sustained period of time in the show than those spot starts. a curveball and fastball alone isn't going to cut it.

 

do you realistically see hill as a starter or reliever in the majors?

 

I'll take lower pitch counts with more starts every day of the week.

 

Marmol and Hill are at different stages in their careers. Marmol hasn't been pitching for all that long, and still has things to work on in lower levels. Hill is older, has been pitching longer, and has shown he has nothing left to gain from dominating AAA hitters. If we're throwing away the season I'd rather see Marmol continuing to develop in the minors while giving Hill a true shot to see if he will be a starter or a reliever at the big league level.

[imb]

whatever rests our pitchers is money to me.

 

wood gets sore after 5 innings, prior is just coming back, zambrano has dead arm, marshall hasnt thrown more than 100 innings give or take in a season, marmol hasnt been pitching very long, maddux is old etc etc etc

[NCCubFan]

My thought, if Prior, Wood, and Miller are healthy at the same time (I know, I'm in la-la land) and if the Cubs' management was capable of being creative and thinking outside the box (OK, now I'm not even in the same solar system as la-la land) is to rotate Prior, Wood, and Miller among two spots in the rotation to keep their innings down. My idea would be for each of them to start two of every three times through the rotation and pitch out of the bullpen the third time. The one pitching out of the bullpen could relieve the two of them starting that time through the rotation, allowing the Cubs to keep their pitch counts at a reasonable level without taxing the regular relievers. Similarly, I'd advocate rotating Marshall, Hill, and Guzman between the rotation and bullpen so they could all show what they can do as a starter for an extended time, without pitching too many innings this year (especially Marshall and Guzman, considering they both missed much of last year). I'd send Marmol to Iowa for more development, then bring him back in September.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

My thought, if Prior, Wood, and Miller are healthy at the same time (I know, I'm in la-la land) and if the Cubs' management was capable of being creative and thinking outside the box (OK, now I'm not even in the same solar system as la-la land) is to rotate Prior, Wood, and Miller among two spots in the rotation to keep their innings down. My idea would be for each of them to start two of every three times through the rotation and pitch out of the bullpen the third time. The one pitching out of the bullpen could relieve the two of them starting that time through the rotation, allowing the Cubs to keep their pitch counts at a reasonable level without taxing the regular relievers. Similarly, I'd advocate rotating Marshall, Hill, and Guzman between the rotation and bullpen so they could all show what they can do as a starter for an extended time, without pitching too many innings this year (especially Marshall and Guzman, considering they both missed much of last year). I'd send Marmol to Iowa for more development, then bring him back in September.

 

I don't like the idea of rotating pitchers between the pen and rotation because of the differences in preparing for the two (especially when you keep switching back and forth).

 

Limit their pitches, skip a start from each of them once a month or so and you should be fine. That's a good strategy to have even if the Cubs weren't out of it.

[Shilzzz]

I don't see the point. The thing that gets us in trouble isn't the days in between pitches, it's how many pitches are thrown in a single outing. Sure an extra day wouldn't hurt, but there's no way we're giving up the crutch/curse of a 7 man pen, and carrying 13 pitchers in the NL would be heinous.

 

Also, Marmol should be replaced with Hill. Carlos needs more seasoning, and if we go to 6 men we better give Hill an extended shot to see if he can cut it.

 

but if there are less games started there are less innings pitched then less pitches thrown. you don't think that less starts/more time to heal would be just as beneficial as less pitches/more outings?

 

just curious.

 

edit: also, this is just my opinion, but marmol has a better chance of success at a major league level than hill, though i too would like to see hill get a real chance over a sustained period of time in the show than those spot starts. a curveball and fastball alone isn't going to cut it.

 

do you realistically see hill as a starter or reliever in the majors?

 

I'll take lower pitch counts with more starts every day of the week.

 

Marmol and Hill are at different stages in their careers. Marmol hasn't been pitching for all that long, and still has things to work on in lower levels. Hill is older, has been pitching longer, and has shown he has nothing left to gain from dominating AAA hitters. If we're throwing away the season I'd rather see Marmol continuing to develop in the minors while giving Hill a true shot to see if he will be a starter or a reliever at the big league level.

 

now my math may be wrong here, but i'll give it a shot.

 

hypothetically, of course, lets say that there are 90 games remaining in a season.

 

with 5 starters, each throwing 90 pitches per game, over a 90 game stretch, saying that they will be healthy the entire time and making all of their 18 remaining starts any individual pitcher on this staff will have, at the end of this time, thrown 1,620 pitches overall.

 

with 6 starters, each throwing 100 pitches per game, over that same 90 game stretch, again saying that all remain in good shape and making all of their what would be in this rotation 15 starts, at 100 pitches thrown per start will have, at the end of the same period, thrown 1,500 pitches overall.

 

with that said we can take it a step further.

 

we will keep the six man rotation on the same 100 per game pitch count while holding a five man rotation to a mere 85 pitches per start. while again the six man rotation will have thrown 1,500 pitches overall, the five man at 85 per game will still end up with 30 pitches more than a six man rotation.

 

now granted, 30 pitches is not that much, but when you add in the extra day of rest i think you would agree that the stress on arms such as Zambrano, Wood and Prior would be more well served in a blown season such as the 2006 campaign on a six man staff.

 

the other point being that the team would hypothetically have to carry one more pitcher, and with that one less bat, and i think we all can agree that there are a few hitters on this squad that are unnecessary.

 

as far as hill and marmol are concerned i will agree with you that hill should be starting over marmol. but again with the season how it is, i would favor marmol in the bullpen over some other people on the current roster. if he's going to get seasoning, why not let it be against hitters that he will actually face for the rest of his career and let him become acclamated(sp) with the lifestyle of the bigs versus that of the minor league?