ESPN 1000 Reporting the Cardinals after Craig Wilson

[CubfaninCA]

According to ESPN Insider, the Pirates asked for Reyes.

 

wonder who they asked for when hendry called. pie?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Pirates are crazy if that's the case. Wilson's a good player, but he's not good enough that 4 months of him is worth the best prospect in the system.

[CubfaninCA]

The Pirates are crazy if that's the case. Wilson's a good player, but he's not good enough that 4 months of him is worth the best prospect in the system.

 

they have a month & a half to negotiate a trade. any good negotiator starts high and works from there.

[Outshined_One]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

[srbin84]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The Pirates are crazy if that's the case. Wilson's a good player, but he's not good enough that 4 months of him is worth the best prospect in the system.

 

they have a month & a half to negotiate a trade. any good negotiator starts high and works from there.

 

I don't fault them for asking, but they have to understand that his value goes down as the season progresses, unless you get multiple teams bidding on him.

[Mark_R]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

They got a nice haul w/ Barton and Haren for Mulder.

[CubfaninCA]

The Pirates are crazy if that's the case. Wilson's a good player, but he's not good enough that 4 months of him is worth the best prospect in the system.

 

they have a month & a half to negotiate a trade. any good negotiator starts high and works from there.

 

I don't fault them for asking, but they have to understand that his value goes down as the season progresses, unless you get multiple teams bidding on him.

 

hmmmm, i always thought value was highest right before the deadline when many teams are desperate to deal.

 

of course, wilson could go into a slump, so they are gambling..

[CaliforniaRaisin]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Curses, Mark. Curses.

[Mark_R]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Try some original idea ;)

[srbin84]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Curses, Mark. Curses.

 

Mulder made the Cards a better team than they would have been with Haren. We'll see this year. Mulder is very streaky. Barton in the big leagues before he is anything.

[Mark_R]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Curses, Mark. Curses.

 

Mulder made the Cards a better team than they would have been with Haren. We'll see this year. Mulder is very streaky. Barton in the big leagues before he is anything.

 

Mulder and Haren had nearly identical numbers last season. Haren was doing it for roughly the league minimum, while Mulder's salary was much greater. The A's bent over the Joker on that one.

[srbin84]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Curses, Mark. Curses.

 

Mulder made the Cards a better team than they would have been with Haren. We'll see this year. Mulder is very streaky. Barton in the big leagues before he is anything.

 

Mulder and Haren had nearly identical numbers last season. Haren was doing it for roughly the league minimum, while Mulder's salary was much greater. The A's bent over the Joker on that one.

 

I don't think they care if they had to pay more money, they were trying to improve the rotation last year, and they did. We'll see what happens this year. The Cards are a playoff team. They want to have pitchers who are good and experienced pitching in the playoffs. They've been burnt by using young starters in the playoffs in the past. Mulder is one of the best postseason pitchers in baseball, and he pitched excellently once again there for the Cardinals last year.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Curses, Mark. Curses.

 

Mulder made the Cards a better team than they would have been with Haren. We'll see this year. Mulder is very streaky. Barton in the big leagues before he is anything.

 

That's something completely different from what you said earlier - that the Cards don't like to give up their key prospects (Barton was their top prospect at the time of the trade and considered one of the 25-50 best in all of baseball) and that they don't like to give up key players:

 

Haren with the A's: 301 IP, 3.74 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, .243 BAA, 228 Ks, 68 BBs

 

Mulder with the Cards: 286.1 IP, 4.08 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, .260 BAA, 153 Ks, 96 BBs

[srbin84]

They'll get him for John Rodriguez. Just watch.

 

I beat you to that prediction. That's how the Cards deal. They don't like to give up their key prospects and players, and they don't.

 

Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder?

 

Curses, Mark. Curses.

 

Mulder made the Cards a better team than they would have been with Haren. We'll see this year. Mulder is very streaky. Barton in the big leagues before he is anything.

 

That's something completely different from what you said earlier - that the Cards don't like to give up their key prospects (Barton was their top prospect at the time of the trade and considered one of the 25-50 best in all of baseball) and that they don't like to give up key players:

 

Haren with the A's: 301 IP, 3.74 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, .243 BAA, 228 Ks, 68 BBs

 

Mulder with the Cards: 286.1 IP, 4.08 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, .260 BAA, 153 Ks, 96 BBs

 

All I'm saying is that I'm not sold on Haren as a No. 2 or No. 1 or even a No. 3 just yet. I want to see more. I know Mulder is very good, and you can't just ignore what he's done in the playoffs.

[YearofDaCubs]

Both Mulder and Hudson have been dissappointing for their respective teams since the trade. Haren has been pretty damn good for the As.

[srbin84]

Both Mulder and Hudson have been dissappointing for their respective teams since the trade. Haren has been pretty damn good for the As.

 

So the fact that Mulder is a proven playoff ace doesn't mean anything?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

How many times are you going to change your stance/argument? Edited June 10, 2006 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Haren was better, younger, and cheaper than Mulder last year. Mulder's illustrious '05 postseason accounted for 2 good starts and one bad one, including taking half the losses in the NLCS. If the justification of the trade is that you sacrifice the younger, cheaper, better player so you get the guy can give up 5 runs with a 1.37 WHIP in 18 IP(ignoring the fact that Haren probably would be similar if not better in that sample), PLUS you give up your top hitting prospect, then that's not much of a justification at all.

[srbin84]

Haren was better, younger, and cheaper than Mulder last year. Mulder's illustrious '05 postseason accounted for 2 good starts and one bad one, including taking half the losses in the NLCS. If the justification of the trade is that you sacrifice the younger, cheaper, better player so you get the guy can give up 5 runs with a 1.37 WHIP in 18 IP(ignoring the fact that Haren probably would be similar if not better in that sample), PLUS you give up your top hitting prospect, then that's not much of a justification at all.

 

Wins and losses don't mean anything. It's about ERA.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Both Mulder and Hudson have been dissappointing for their respective teams since the trade. Haren has been pretty damn good for the As.

 

So the fact that Mulder is a proven playoff ace doesn't mean anything?

 

No, because that's not true.

[YearofDaCubs]

Both Mulder and Hudson have been dissappointing for their respective teams since the trade. Haren has been pretty damn good for the As.

 

So the fact that Mulder is a proven playoff ace doesn't mean anything?

I just checked his stats from last year's playoff run and he had a 2.45 era in the playoffs last year. That's very good so you have a point there. This year he has been very bad.

[srbin84]

Both Mulder and Hudson have been dissappointing for their respective teams since the trade. Haren has been pretty damn good for the As.

 

So the fact that Mulder is a proven playoff ace doesn't mean anything?

 

No, because that's not true.

 

Mulder in the playoffs:

 

7 GS 2.34 ERA

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Haren was better, younger, and cheaper than Mulder last year. Mulder's illustrious '05 postseason accounted for 2 good starts and one bad one, including taking half the losses in the NLCS. If the justification of the trade is that you sacrifice the younger, cheaper, better player so you get the guy can give up 5 runs with a 1.37 WHIP in 18 IP(ignoring the fact that Haren probably would be similar if not better in that sample), PLUS you give up your top hitting prospect, then that's not much of a justification at all.

 

Wins and losses don't mean anything. It's about ERA.

 

In that case, Haren has a lower postseason ERA than Mulder.

 

And yes, Haren has pitched in fewer postseason innings than Mulder, but Mulder's 42.1 postseason innings isn't exactly a lot to work with anyways.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Both Mulder and Hudson have been dissappointing for their respective teams since the trade. Haren has been pretty damn good for the As.

 

So the fact that Mulder is a proven playoff ace doesn't mean anything?

 

No, because that's not true.

 

Mulder in the playoffs:

 

7 GS 2.34 ERA

 

You forgot his overwhelming 1.39 WHIP, and the fact that it's seven outings. Or if you're adventurous enough you could point out that even with his lucky ERA he's 3-4 career in the playoffs.

 

But all this is tangent to the point that Jocketty got absolutely hosed in that deal.

 

EDIT: Haren has given up 2 runs in 5 career postseason outings(2.16 ERA)