Jim: Please ignore Mike Kiley

[CubfaninCA]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

What? How am I flip flopping? Man, you really like acting like a jerk don't you. Hendry covets this type of player. He's happy as a pig in spit that he got him and he's going to keep him.

[Backtobanks]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

I still say Hendry "likes" Jones because the alternative was to trade Pie, Zambrano, Prior, etc. The 3 year deal was the only way he could sign Jones, but again it is not a no-trade 3 year deal. Looking at the other free agent choices, it wasn't a bad decision as long as Jones moves to CF, is used in a platoon, or is eventually traded.

[goonys evil twin]

I still say Hendry "likes" Jones because the alternative was to trade Pie, Zambrano, Prior, etc. The 3 year deal was the only way he could sign Jones, but again it is not a no-trade 3 year deal. Looking at the other free agent choices, it wasn't a bad decision as long as Jones moves to CF, is used in a platoon, or is eventually traded.

 

So in other words, it's not bad as long as they do the exact opposite of what they have done and actuall will be doing.

[CubfaninCA]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

What? How am I flip flopping? Man, you really like acting like a jerk don't you. Hendry covets this type of player. He's happy as a pig in spit that he got him and he's going to keep him.

 

another in a long line of over-the-top statements.

[Chocolate Milk]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

What? How am I flip flopping? Man, you really like acting like a jerk don't you. Hendry covets this type of player. He's happy as a pig in spit that he got him and he's going to keep him.

 

another in a long line of over-the-top statements.

 

Yeah, nothing is more over the top then basing your arguments on trends and information.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

What? How am I flip flopping? Man, you really like acting like a jerk don't you. Hendry covets this type of player. He's happy as a pig in spit that he got him and he's going to keep him.

 

another in a long line of over-the-top statements.

 

Yeah, nothing is more over the top then basing your arguments on trends and information.

 

Ooh, don't forget that common sense sometimes helps.

[CubfaninCA]

look up the word covet fellas.

[CubinNY]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

What? How am I flip flopping? Man, you really like acting like a jerk don't you. Hendry covets this type of player. He's happy as a pig in spit that he got him and he's going to keep him.

 

another in a long line of over-the-top statements.

 

Yeah, nothing is more over the top then basing your arguments on trends and information.

 

Ooh, don't forget that common sense sometimes helps.

 

As do direct quotes from Hendry.

[Chocolate Milk]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

What? How am I flip flopping? Man, you really like acting like a jerk don't you. Hendry covets this type of player. He's happy as a pig in spit that he got him and he's going to keep him.

 

another in a long line of over-the-top statements.

 

Yeah, nothing is more over the top then basing your arguments on trends and information.

 

Ooh, don't forget that common sense sometimes helps.

 

As do direct quotes from Hendry.

 

Forget all that, it's too confusing. I'm going with my gut on this one.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Forget all that, it's too confusing. I'm going with my gut on this one.

 

Me too, plus I'll probably take some things completely out of context.

[UBlink]

Forget all that, it's too confusing. I'm going with my gut on this one.

 

Me too, plus I'll probably take some things completely out of context.

 

I think I'll just take another cold one - in or out of context I don't care as long as it's cold. :pint:

[LeftCoastCubFan]

so now hendry "covets" jones-type players. :shock:

 

perhaps a slim free agency market forced his hand?

 

 

 

3 year deal

 

how did a slim free agency market force his hand for 3 years?

 

Jones was likely plan A for at least 3 teams; the Cubs, the Cards, and at least one other (or Encarcion wouldn’t have gotten 3 years too). The Cubs beat them out and signed Jones for 3/16. Encarcion and his .284 obp got 3/15 from the Cards as their plan B. You can argue whether Jones should be here, but Hendry just paid the market price.

 

They have plenty to give up to make the deal for Miggy. Other teams have higher ranked prospects, but most of them have no interest in trading their higher ranked guys.

 

Gallagher, Guzman, Murton and Pie could probably get you Miggy. Send Pierre back there and pay his salary, move Jones over the center and call-up whoever the heck you want to play the other corner OF spot.

 

I think you overestimate Cabrera’s availability. He’s making 350k this year, and the Marlins cut 45 mil in payroll next off-season. They own him till 2009. I can’t see him being moved until at least mid 2008, if then.

 

If we had Cabrera and Hendry traded him for the package you propose, you’d be calling for Hendry’s head. Why would Florida do it?

 

Teams that could offer better talent and be in the market would start with Arizona and both LA teams. Boston and both NY teams would jump in and try. So would a few more.

 

I've only got 10 reasons. But, that's probably enough. You can disagree if you want. But, you can no longer ask for reasons he won't be traded. :D

 

There is nothing wrong with JJ on his own. Minnesota won 3 divisions with him in right. St. Louis wanted him and they would still be in 1st this year with him. The problem is the makeup of the entire team.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think you overestimate Cabrera’s availability. He’s making 350k this year, and the Marlins cut 45 mil in payroll next off-season. They own him till 2009. I can’t see him being moved until at least mid 2008, if then.

 

Cabrera is eligible for arbitration after this season. That 350K will skyrocket. Just because they own his rights does not mean they can keep him.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

I think you overestimate Cabrera’s availability. He’s making 350k this year, and the Marlins cut 45 mil in payroll next off-season. They own him till 2009. I can’t see him being moved until at least mid 2008, if then.

 

Cabrera is eligible for arbitration after this season. That 350K will skyrocket. Just because they own his rights does not mean they can keep him.

Florida has a 15 mil payroll theis year. Being a first year arbitration eligible player he will get about 4 mil at most. There is no financial burden to Florida. They won't be dumping salary for him.

[CubfaninCA]

where's the direct quote about coveting jones?

[CubinNY]

I think you overestimate Cabrera’s availability. He’s making 350k this year, and the Marlins cut 45 mil in payroll next off-season. They own him till 2009. I can’t see him being moved until at least mid 2008, if then.

 

Cabrera is eligible for arbitration after this season. That 350K will skyrocket. Just because they own his rights does not mean they can keep him.

Florida has a 15 mil payroll theis year. Being a first year arbitration eligible player he will get about 4 mil at most. There is no financial burden to Florida. They won't be dumping salary for him.

 

You obviously aren't well acquainted with Jeff Loria.

 

They have to keep salary low so they are more attractive to move.

 

4 mill is almost 1/3 of the team's payroll.

Edited May 26, 2006 by CubinNY

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think you overestimate Cabrera’s availability. He’s making 350k this year, and the Marlins cut 45 mil in payroll next off-season. They own him till 2009. I can’t see him being moved until at least mid 2008, if then.

 

Cabrera is eligible for arbitration after this season. That 350K will skyrocket. Just because they own his rights does not mean they can keep him.

Florida has a 15 mil payroll theis year. Being a first year arbitration eligible player he will get about 4 mil at most. There is no financial burden to Florida. They won't be dumping salary for him.

 

It'll likely be 7-10M.

[FergieJ31]

Not to threadjack, but I just looked at Florida's payroll -- didn't realize just how low it really is.

 

At $14.3M it's #30 in baseball of course, and it's well under half of #29 TB ($35.4M). Five Yankees individually earn more than the entire Fla payroll: ARod (25.7), Jeter (20.6), Giambi (20.4), Mussina (19) and BigUnit (15.6)

 

Consider this: Sergio Mitre makes 330k which puts him in the top half of the team. More than half the team makes the league minimum, 327k.

 

And yet, they're good enough to sweep the Cubs .. oh my.

 

Back to topic, even though I agree it's a pipe dream I think Hendry would have to be asleep at the switch to not even inquire about Miggy's availability, or Abreu's for that matter. Maybe Florida values someone in our own system more highly than we do (it's not unprecedented :oops: )

[LeftCoastCubFan]

I think you overestimate Cabrera’s availability. He’s making 350k this year, and the Marlins cut 45 mil in payroll next off-season. They own him till 2009. I can’t see him being moved until at least mid 2008, if then.

 

Cabrera is eligible for arbitration after this season. That 350K will skyrocket. Just because they own his rights does not mean they can keep him.

Florida has a 15 mil payroll theis year. Being a first year arbitration eligible player he will get about 4 mil at most. There is no financial burden to Florida. They won't be dumping salary for him.

 

It'll likely be 7-10M.

No, a 1st year arbitration eligible player cannot be compared to players over 1 year more of service (See Gagne after CY young losing and getting 5 mil in 2004). He'll get 8 - 10 in 2008.

[abuck1220]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

funny coming from a guy who used to be pierre's biggest supporter and now wants him benched.

[CubfaninCA]

Hendry gave him a 3 year deal because he LIKES him, not because he was forced to compromise. Jim doesn't feel he's stuck with Jones if he likes Jones to begin with.

 

he gave him 3 years cause other teams were offering him 2 and he didn't want encanarcion, sanders and burnitz. sure he likes him, but he doesn't "covet" Jones-types. that's absurd. he covets beltran-types, but the trib doesn't covet 7yr and 119 contracts.

 

 

What is absurd is the fact that it's true that Hendry likes Jones type players. It's painfully obvious to anybody that has paid attention to Hendry moves and/or listened to what he says he likes in a player.

 

so flip flopping on the coveting charge?

 

jones hasn't sucked like many predicted. calm down.

 

funny coming from a guy who used to be pierre's biggest supporter and now wants him benched.

 

difference...

 

i change when the info changes. i'll let you figure out the rest.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I doubt very much the Cubs will trade Jones, but Hendry would be negligent to not even explore a Jones trade with Detroit.

 

Detroit is in need of left-handed pop. They only have one left-hander and one switch-hitter in their daily lineup, both with little pop. I'm sure Jones could fit in with the Detroit outfield of Monroe, Granderson, and Ordonez.

 

Jones for Infante?

[wastra]

The bottom line is that the cubs have to, for once, go out and get a good hitter in his prime or thereabouts. We quite literally have not signed or traded for a top-notch hitter that wasn't a gamble or "flier" in about 5-6 years with the lone exception being Derek Lee. Every other offensive player we've brought in or up has been on injury rehab, guys coming off awful seasons we're just HOPING they can improve on, or just not very good hitters before we signed them anyway.

 

It is baffling that we consistantly have holes in our lineup, and we've NEVER gone out and paid money for a top-flight free agent since the Alou fiasco. We're not Minnesota. With a $95 million payroll, one or two key players should have been guys we jsut signed over the competition. As long as Hendry relies on reclamation fliers and "bargain basement" type of guys, we can't field the offense we deserve.

 

 

For the life of me, I can't understand how on a $95 million roster, the only two good outright FA signings are setup men.

[dalgreen]

The bottom line is that the cubs have to, for once, go out and get a good hitter in his prime or thereabouts. We quite literally have not signed or traded for a top-notch hitter that wasn't a gamble or "flier" in about 5-6 years with the lone exception being Derek Lee. Every other offensive player we've brought in or up has been on injury rehab, guys coming off awful seasons we're just HOPING they can improve on, or just not very good hitters before we signed them anyway.

 

It is baffling that we consistantly have holes in our lineup, and we've NEVER gone out and paid money for a top-flight free agent since the Alou fiasco. We're not Minnesota. With a $95 million payroll, one or two key players should have been guys we jsut signed over the competition. As long as Hendry relies on reclamation fliers and "bargain basement" type of guys, we can't field the offense we deserve.

 

 

For the life of me, I can't understand how on a $95 million roster, the only two good outright FA signings are setup men.

 

I agree with you. But even with Lee that seemed to be by accident. I remember when the Cubs trading for him Hendry saying he could hit 40+ homers and I (and others) were rolling our eyes. We knew he was good defensively and had a good eye at the plate, but I don't think many saw superstar status when that deal was made. So, in my opinion, Hendry kind of lucked out on that one.

 

Again, you're right that it's inexcuseable not to have a top-flight FA or get a top-flight deal done with the payroll. I still don't understand some people getting upset at the Murton trade proposals since many of us said during the offseason that this offense wouldn't be good with Murton in left without a high OPS guy in right such as Abreu or Giles. Murton would be a great asset on this team if we had a GM and manager who knew how to properly construct a team.