TLR Says Izzy Will Only Be Used in "Classic" Save

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Link

 

It appears that TLR is going to try to reduce the pressure on Izzy and bring him in only for standard saves at the start of an inning.

 

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa believes the cure for Jason Isringhausen's woes is keeping his closer in standard, ninth-inning save situations.

 

Isringhausen entered the season with confidence, which has been eroded by a puzzling lack of consistency. He said he'll try to duplicate a nice pitch and put it "right down the middle."

 

"Maybe one of these days I'll pop one up or something," he said. "As of right now, they're putting good swings on the pitches I'm throwing that are bad.

 

"I've just got to keep going out there and hopefully the phone will keep ringing and I'll keep going out there."

 

If Izzy doesn't right the ship soon, the entire Cardinal pen could be wrecked. While the Cards are still a good team, I'm not sure they are good enough to overcome a disasterous bullpen.

[Garwilly]

Link

 

It appears that TLR is going to try to reduce the pressure on Izzy and bring him in only for standard saves at the start of an inning.

 

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa believes the cure for Jason Isringhausen's woes is keeping his closer in standard, ninth-inning save situations.

 

Isringhausen entered the season with confidence, which has been eroded by a puzzling lack of consistency. He said he'll try to duplicate a nice pitch and put it "right down the middle."

 

"Maybe one of these days I'll pop one up or something," he said. "As of right now, they're putting good swings on the pitches I'm throwing that are bad.

 

"I've just got to keep going out there and hopefully the phone will keep ringing and I'll keep going out there."

 

If Izzy doesn't right the ship soon, the entire Cardinal pen could be wrecked. While the Cards are still a good team, I'm not sure they are good enough to overcome a disasterous bullpen.

 

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/mpj/Titanic.jpg

[srbin84]

I think they already have a mess. Izzy, Looper and Wainwright are pretty decent. I'd probably take Izzy or Wainwright over Wuertz. I dont think anyone else could crack our pen though. Edited April 14, 2006 by srbin84

[Brian]

From what I saw of Wainright against the Cubs (a bad way to judge a pitcher) he looked like he could probably close games.

[Andy]

Good lord, even Dusty brings Dempster in almost exclusively for "classic" saves. What manager doesn't?

[elconq05]

Izzy has never been a multiple inning closer since he has been in St. Louis.

 

And honestly...today's situation only saw Izzy throw one pitch in the 10th and then they threw out the guy stealing 2nd to end the inning. It's not like he had to pitch 10 pitches to get a couple outs in the 10th. He threw one freakin' pitch.

[elconq05]

Link

 

It appears that TLR is going to try to reduce the pressure on Izzy and bring him in only for standard saves at the start of an inning.

 

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa believes the cure for Jason Isringhausen's woes is keeping his closer in standard, ninth-inning save situations.

 

Isringhausen entered the season with confidence, which has been eroded by a puzzling lack of consistency. He said he'll try to duplicate a nice pitch and put it "right down the middle."

 

"Maybe one of these days I'll pop one up or something," he said. "As of right now, they're putting good swings on the pitches I'm throwing that are bad.

 

"I've just got to keep going out there and hopefully the phone will keep ringing and I'll keep going out there."

 

If Izzy doesn't right the ship soon, the entire Cardinal pen could be wrecked. While the Cards are still a good team, I'm not sure they are good enough to overcome a disasterous bullpen.

 

Woah...

Wrecked? I wouldn't go that far yet.

It's way too early for that type of blanket statement.

If Lee doesn't rob Juan's homer in the 10th today (wishfull thinking, I know), the Cardinals would be 6-3 and in 1st place. Not bad so far, for a team with a "wrecked bullpen".

 

The Cardinals made a few errors today that cost us a run, Bennet was horrible behind the plate and cost us another run on a passed ball, we had a home run taken away, and it still went to the 11th inning.

 

The bullpen hasn't been that good so far this year...no doubt. But it was much better today, except for Izzy. After Suppan came out after the 6th (3 runs, 2 unearned), the Cards bullpen only allowed one hit until the 11th inning.

 

I'm not that worried about Izzy...yet. He's been very successfull for years now with us...I'm not going to bail on him after a few rough outings, nor should anyone else. He has earned some slack from me. He'll be given some time to it together...or else he'll be replaced.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Link

 

It appears that TLR is going to try to reduce the pressure on Izzy and bring him in only for standard saves at the start of an inning.

 

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa believes the cure for Jason Isringhausen's woes is keeping his closer in standard, ninth-inning save situations.

 

Isringhausen entered the season with confidence, which has been eroded by a puzzling lack of consistency. He said he'll try to duplicate a nice pitch and put it "right down the middle."

 

"Maybe one of these days I'll pop one up or something," he said. "As of right now, they're putting good swings on the pitches I'm throwing that are bad.

 

"I've just got to keep going out there and hopefully the phone will keep ringing and I'll keep going out there."

 

If Izzy doesn't right the ship soon, the entire Cardinal pen could be wrecked. While the Cards are still a good team, I'm not sure they are good enough to overcome a disasterous bullpen.

 

Woah...

Wrecked? I wouldn't go that far yet.

It's way too early for that type of blanket statement.

If Lee doesn't rob Juan's homer in the 10th today (wishfull thinking, I know), the Cardinals would be 6-3 and in 1st place. Not bad so far, for a team with a "wrecked bullpen".

 

The Cardinals made a few errors today that cost us a run, Bennet was horrible behind the plate and cost us another run on a passed ball, we had a home run taken away, and it still went to the 11th inning.

 

The bullpen hasn't been that good so far this year...no doubt. But it was much better today, except for Izzy. After Suppan came out after the 6th (3 runs, 2 unearned), the Cards bullpen only allowed one hit until the 11th inning.

 

I'm not that worried about Izzy...yet. He's been very successfull for years now with us...I'm not going to bail on him after a few rough outings, nor should anyone else. He has earned some slack from me. He'll be given some time to it together...or else he'll be replaced.

 

Replaced with who? Looper?

 

I'm not denying Izzy's track record. I'm wondering if he's about to join the parade of burnt out closers.

 

Izzy has been a successful closer for six seasons. Over those seasons, he's been quite successful. Izzy is now 33 years old.

 

Randy Myers had a similar run of success before flaming out at age 36.

 

For six years, John Wetteland was a great closer who flamed out at age 34.

 

Rob Dibble put up four outstanding years as a closer before burning out at age 31.

 

Dave Smith had six decent years of ninth inning work before forgetting how to do it at age 35.

 

Rob Nen was possibly the best in the game for seven years, but injuries ended his run at age 33.

 

Greg Olsen had five decent years as a closer and blew himself out before ever reaching 30.

 

The list could go on. Izzy may have hit a bump. He may rebound and post a phenomenal season. On the other hand, there could be an injury or a physical condition that is foretelling his demise. What all of the above have in common is when they lost it, they never got it back. Some of the above, (ala Nen and Dibble) it was an obvious injury that contributed to their demise. For others, it just seemed age or something else happened.

 

Izzy has demonstrated both a lack of velocity and lack of control. Why? Is there a hidden injury there? Has age and innings caught up with him? I don't know.

 

While it may be nothing, it is definitely cause for concern.

 

And yes, if he's done...there is problems in that pen. Looper isn't an effective closer and there's not a lot of arms there (exception Wainwright) that can really be counted on to shut down a team in the late innings.

[vaball]

Maybe in some kind of worse case scenario we move Ponson to the bullpen for long relief, bring Reyes up as the 5th starter, and let Wainwright close.

 

Izzy was never really a lights out closer. He's racked up the saves since coming to the Cardinals, but very often he gets the save by the skin of his teeth. It's possible that his edge was very small to begin with and that he doesn't necessarily have to regress much in order to be ineffective.

 

That being said, I think he'll probably be fine in time for the Cardinals bullpen to end up a plus relief corps.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Maybe in some kind of worse case scenario we move Ponson to the bullpen for long relief, bring Reyes up as the 5th starter, and let Wainwright close.

 

Izzy was never really a lights out closer. He's racked up the saves since coming to the Cardinals, but very often he gets the save by the skin of his teeth. It's possible that his edge was very small to begin with and that he doesn't necessarily have to regress much in order to be ineffective.

 

That being said, I think he'll probably be fine in time for the Cardinals bullpen to end up a plus relief corps.

 

You post makes some sense. If Izzy was always narrowly getting by, a slip in abiltiy or even having the luck turn the other way would turn those narrow misses into blown opportunities.

 

Time will tell what is happening, but there is a long line of closers who suddenly lost their effectiveness after years of success.

[snoodmonger]

Time will tell what is happening, but there is a long line of closers who suddenly lost their effectiveness after years of success.

 

Typically, though, it corresponds with a lucrative contract signed with the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Vance, I met a woman from Monroe, LA today. This is how our conversation went.

 

HER: I'm in town from Monroe, LA.

 

ME: Really? I know someone from Monroe.

 

HER: Oh? Who?

 

ME: (crap. What am i talking about? I don't "know" him. I mean, I kinda do, I guess. But not really.) His name is Vance.

 

HER: Vance? Vance what?

 

ME: (meekly) Vance Thecubsfan.

[Wild_Cubs04]

Time will tell what is happening, but there is a long line of closers who suddenly lost their effectiveness after years of success.

 

Typically, though, it corresponds with a lucrative contract signed with the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Vance, I met a woman from Monroe, LA today. This is how our conversation went.

 

HER: I'm in town from Monroe, LA.

 

ME: Really? I know someone from Monroe.

 

HER: Oh? Who?

 

ME: (crap. What am i talking about? I don't "know" him. I mean, I kinda do, I guess. But not really.) His name is Vance.

 

HER: Vance? Vance what?

 

ME: (meekly) Vance Thecubsfan.

 

Lmfao

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Time will tell what is happening, but there is a long line of closers who suddenly lost their effectiveness after years of success.

 

Typically, though, it corresponds with a lucrative contract signed with the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Vance, I met a woman from Monroe, LA today. This is how our conversation went.

 

HER: I'm in town from Monroe, LA.

 

ME: Really? I know someone from Monroe.

 

HER: Oh? Who?

 

ME: (crap. What am i talking about? I don't "know" him. I mean, I kinda do, I guess. But not really.) His name is Vance.

 

HER: Vance? Vance what?

 

ME: (meekly) Vance Thecubsfan.

 

:lmao: That's great. I doubt there's many Vances from Monroe, LA though . I have heard there's another around here somewhere, but I've never met him.

 

What was her name?

[snoodmonger]

I can't remember. She was a customer at work. After that initial conversation, I kind of avoided her out of embarrassment.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I can't remember. She was a customer at work. After that initial conversation, I kind of avoided her out of embarrassment.

 

Understandable. I know a lot of people. What's funny is that Monroe, while smaller than most metro areas, is still about 75,000 people plus the nearby towns and such so it's bigger than it feels. That being said, I know a LOT of people.

[gus_dog]

Wouldn't a 'classic' save be a three inning save? I mean, really, the one inning save is still relatively young.

[elconq05]

Link

 

It appears that TLR is going to try to reduce the pressure on Izzy and bring him in only for standard saves at the start of an inning.

 

St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa believes the cure for Jason Isringhausen's woes is keeping his closer in standard, ninth-inning save situations.

 

Isringhausen entered the season with confidence, which has been eroded by a puzzling lack of consistency. He said he'll try to duplicate a nice pitch and put it "right down the middle."

 

"Maybe one of these days I'll pop one up or something," he said. "As of right now, they're putting good swings on the pitches I'm throwing that are bad.

 

"I've just got to keep going out there and hopefully the phone will keep ringing and I'll keep going out there."

 

If Izzy doesn't right the ship soon, the entire Cardinal pen could be wrecked. While the Cards are still a good team, I'm not sure they are good enough to overcome a disasterous bullpen.

 

Woah...

Wrecked? I wouldn't go that far yet.

It's way too early for that type of blanket statement.

If Lee doesn't rob Juan's homer in the 10th today (wishfull thinking, I know), the Cardinals would be 6-3 and in 1st place. Not bad so far, for a team with a "wrecked bullpen".

 

The Cardinals made a few errors today that cost us a run, Bennet was horrible behind the plate and cost us another run on a passed ball, we had a home run taken away, and it still went to the 11th inning.

 

The bullpen hasn't been that good so far this year...no doubt. But it was much better today, except for Izzy. After Suppan came out after the 6th (3 runs, 2 unearned), the Cards bullpen only allowed one hit until the 11th inning.

 

I'm not that worried about Izzy...yet. He's been very successfull for years now with us...I'm not going to bail on him after a few rough outings, nor should anyone else. He has earned some slack from me. He'll be given some time to it together...or else he'll be replaced.

 

Replaced with who? Looper?

 

I'm not denying Izzy's track record. I'm wondering if he's about to join the parade of burnt out closers.

I'm just saying it's way too early to even think that. It's just a few bad outings. It happens. If this continues over the long haul, then it's a problem.

 

Izzy has been a successful closer for six seasons. Over those seasons, he's been quite successful. Izzy is now 33 years old.

 

Randy Myers had a similar run of success before flaming out at age 36.

 

For six years, John Wetteland was a great closer who flamed out at age 34.

 

Rob Dibble put up four outstanding years as a closer before burning out at age 31.

 

Dave Smith had six decent years of ninth inning work before forgetting how to do it at age 35.

 

Rob Nen was possibly the best in the game for seven years, but injuries ended his run at age 33.

 

Greg Olsen had five decent years as a closer and blew himself out before ever reaching 30.

 

The list could go on.

That's nice and all, but I could name a bunch of good closers that pitched poorly for a few games and did fine the rest of the way.

 

-- Trever Hoffman, who had a horrible start to 2005, but he ended up having a very good year.

 

-- Mariano Rivera had a bad start in 2005 and had a great season.

 

-- Billy Wagner had a stretch of 4 games in May of 2005 where he allowed 5 earned runs...and he was fine.

 

I feel stupid discussing a player possibly being "done" after a few bad outings.

 

Izzy may have hit a bump. He may rebound and post a phenomenal season. On the other hand, there could be an injury or a physical condition that is foretelling his demise.

If there is an injury, he probably wouldn't be pitching this early in the year.

In spring training, Izzy had the best stuff he has had in years. Everyone said his pitches had outstanding movement. And in the first series in Philly, he was solid.

They said on the radio this morning, that Izzy said he just hasn't been quite right over the past few games (no kidding). It's not physical, it's just one of those things.

 

What all of the above have in common is when they lost it, they never got it back. Some of the above, (ala Nen and Dibble) it was an obvious injury that contributed to their demise. For others, it just seemed age or something else happened.

So if Derrick Lee goes hitless in 12 at bats this year, can we start to discuss the possibility of him being, "done"?

Of course not.

You may have guessed right. He may be done. But I doubt it. Your conclusion is based on a few innings. This is waaaaaay too small a sample size to come to any conclusion other than the fact he has struggled as of late.

Worthy of being booed? You bet.

Worthy of talk that his career may be over? No way.

 

Izzy has demonstrated both a lack of velocity and lack of control. Why? Is there a hidden injury there? Has age and innings caught up with him? I don't know.

Like I said above, it's not thought to be an injury. It just seems to be a bump in the road right now.

 

While it may be nothing, it is definitely cause for concern.

Not really. Not yet.

With you being a Cub fan and all, I am sure you are giddy and hoping that he is indeed done.

Sorry, but right now, that's just wishfull thinking.

 

And yes, if he's done...there is problems in that pen. Looper isn't an effective closer and there's not a lot of arms there (exception Wainwright) that can really be counted on to shut down a team in the late innings.

I am on a "wait and see" basis with Looper.

He's had three appearances so far, and two were scoreless.

Duncan and LaRussa insist once they correct Looper's mechanical issues (which they say won't be long at all), he'll be fine.

Looper has been riddled with injuries the past few seasons, but he is at 100% right now. He said in camp that he felt so good that he was too relaxed and not concentrating enough, and his mechanics got messed up.

Sounds goofy to me, but whatever.

Looper had 28 saves last year when he wasn't healthy. I think if a couple things get corrected, he can be very effective.

Could be replace Izzy? I don't know. We'd have to wait and see. It's possible.

 

That's the optimist in me speaking. It's a long season, and he'll get every opportunity to be an effective setup man.

 

And I JUST got tickets to Friday's game at Busch vs. the Cubs. WOOT!!! WOOT!!!

[indifferent]

Wainwright threw three scoreless innings yesterday, 34 pitches and his K/BB was off the charts.

[elconq05]

Wainwright threw three scoreless innings yesterday, 34 pitches and his K/BB was off the charts.

 

I was at the game. I had a conversation with the guy next to me about how impressed we have been with him so far.

[ManEatingTarp]

Wainwright threw three scoreless innings yesterday, 34 pitches and his K/BB was off the charts.

 

I was at the game. I had a conversation with the guy next to me about how impressed we have been with him so far.

 

bout time!

 

:D

 

I'm just glad the kid is doing a good job now that he's getting a chance.

[YearofDaCubs]

Izzy has never been a multiple inning closer since he has been in St. Louis.

 

And honestly...today's situation only saw Izzy throw one pitch in the 10th and then they threw out the guy stealing 2nd to end the inning. It's not like he had to pitch 10 pitches to get a couple outs in the 10th. He threw one freakin' pitch.

I disagree. TLR has used Izzy for 2 innings several times in the past.

[YearofDaCubs]

Time will tell what is happening, but there is a long line of closers who suddenly lost their effectiveness after years of success.

 

Typically, though, it corresponds with a lucrative contract signed with the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Vance, I met a woman from Monroe, LA today. This is how our conversation went.

 

HER: I'm in town from Monroe, LA.

 

ME: Really? I know someone from Monroe.

 

HER: Oh? Who?

 

ME: (crap. What am i talking about? I don't "know" him. I mean, I kinda do, I guess. But not really.) His name is Vance.

 

HER: Vance? Vance what?

 

ME: (meekly) Vance Thecubsfan.

Classic!

[sandberg23]

Time will tell what is happening, but there is a long line of closers who suddenly lost their effectiveness after years of success.

 

Typically, though, it corresponds with a lucrative contract signed with the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Vance, I met a woman from Monroe, LA today. This is how our conversation went.

 

HER: I'm in town from Monroe, LA.

 

ME: Really? I know someone from Monroe.

 

HER: Oh? Who?

 

ME: (crap. What am i talking about? I don't "know" him. I mean, I kinda do, I guess. But not really.) His name is Vance.

 

HER: Vance? Vance what?

 

ME: (meekly) Vance Thecubsfan.

Classic!

 

I've had that same conversation many times in the last couple years. The most frequent question I get is where did I get my believe bracelet at...and I have to say some guy from the internet mailed it to me. I get weird looks.

[erik316wttn]

Boy, what a complete shame it would be if Izzy tanked and the Cards pen would be in shambles.

 

I don't know if I could get over it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Boy, what a complete shame it would be if Izzy tanked and the Cards pen would be in shambles.

 

I don't know if I could get over it.

 

I know it would be hard on me.