Maddux HOF Hat

[BRASKYS SCOTCH]

braves and it isn't close

 

Agreed. To be enshrined in a Cubs hat Maddux would have to contend for the Cy Young this year, win the WS this year and then repeat both next year. So, that said, Vegas has the Cubs hat as a loooooong shot.

[NCCubFan]

According to a book about the Cubs (I believe it was The Million to One Team) the real culprit was the Trib exec in charge of the Cubs at the time (I think it was Stanton Cook, but I'm not sure). Apparently Himes requested more money from the Trib to re-sign Maddux, but the Trib turned him down.

 

Didn't the Cubs offer more money than the Braves but at that point Maddux was just fed up with Cub's front office?

I thought it was Maddux offering to come back at a salary he had been offered by the Cubs back in July or so, but Himes said he could no longer offer that amount. I believe it was actually slightly less than the Braves were offering.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The Hall has also recently changed its stance regarding team membership. Although all the teams a player played for are included in the text of the plaque, they are pictured wearing a cap of one team. Before free agency, this was not controversial, since many players played their entire career with one team. As free agents began to be inducted, it was the player's choice as to which cap they wanted to wear. However, in light of rumors that teams were offering number retirement, money or organizational jobs in exchange for the cap designation (Dave Winfield was widely rumored to have cut such a deal in 2001 with the San Diego Padres), the Hall decided that, though the decision-making process would be a mutual responsibility, they would have the final say in such matters. Gary Carter was the first to test this policy. He won his only championship with the New York Mets, and wanted his induction plaque to depict him wearing a Met cap. The Hall of Fame decided that his plaque would show Carter with a Montreal Expos cap. Wade Boggs was in a similar situation; he won his only championship as a member of the 1996 New York Yankees, but posted his best career numbers in twice as much time while wearing the Boston Red Sox uniform. He went in wearing the "B" on his cap despite his acrimonious relationship with Sox management. Catfish Hunter, though harboring no ill will towards either of his employers, the Oakland Athletics and New York Yankees, could not decide which cap he preferred: he had nearly identical statistics and postseason success on both teams. He instead went in wearing a cap without a logo.

 

So, indeed it was Dave Winfield's "auction" that forced the HOF to change it's criteria of which team a player will be inducted as. Boggs and Carter was the first to have the rule enforced.

[ToupeeOnFire]

According to a book about the Cubs (I believe it was The Million to One Team) the real culprit was the Trib exec in charge of the Cubs at the time (I think it was Stanton Cook, but I'm not sure). Apparently Himes requested more money from the Trib to re-sign Maddux, but the Trib turned him down.

 

Didn't the Cubs offer more money than the Braves but at that point Maddux was just fed up with Cub's front office?

I thought it was Maddux offering to come back at a salary he had been offered by the Cubs back in July or so, but Himes said he could no longer offer that amount. I believe it was actually slightly less than the Braves were offering.

 

According to Ryne Sandberg's "autobiography" Second to Home, Maddux wanted to resign with the Cubs but Larry Himes gave him the run around. By the time he entered free agency, it became a foregone conclusion, thanks to his experience with Himes and the front office, that he wouldn't be returning to the Cubs.

 

Ryno had some not very nice things to say about Mr. Himes (whose ultimate Cub legacy, apart from not resigning Greg Maddux, was trading for Sammy Sosa).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

According to a book about the Cubs (I believe it was The Million to One Team) the real culprit was the Trib exec in charge of the Cubs at the time (I think it was Stanton Cook, but I'm not sure). Apparently Himes requested more money from the Trib to re-sign Maddux, but the Trib turned him down.

 

Didn't the Cubs offer more money than the Braves but at that point Maddux was just fed up with Cub's front office?

I thought it was Maddux offering to come back at a salary he had been offered by the Cubs back in July or so, but Himes said he could no longer offer that amount. I believe it was actually slightly less than the Braves were offering.

 

This is the closest to the truth. According to most reports, Himes offered Maddux a contract and Boras and Greg wanted to shop the offer. The Cubs told Maddux that was the best they could do and they needed an answer because they couldn't wait while other pitchers signed contracts. Boras told them that Maddux wasn't ready to sign, so Himes went out and signed Greg Hibbard, Jose Guzman, and someone for the bullpen. A few days later, when the only offer better than the Cubs came from the Yankees, Boras phoned back and wanted to take the Cubs offer. Himes told him the money was spent and the offer was no longer on the table. That to my recollection was how things transpired. Maddux then signed with the Braves, and we know the rest of the story.

[Guest]

Let's just look at some impressionable numbers for Maddux.

 

Years as a Cub: 10 (including this year)

Years as a Brave: 11

 

Cy Youngs as a Cub: 1

Cy Youngs as a Brave: 3

 

World Series Wins w/Cubs: 0

World Series Wins w/Braves: 1

 

I would consider these to be more important figures to a HoF committee than era, whip etc. Given what we are looking at right now it appears that the Braves are hands down his HoF cap. However, if Maddux somehow manages to put together a Cy Young season while the Cubs win the World Series then all hell breaks loose and who knows where he ends up.

[Tedward]

Let's just look at some impressionable numbers for Maddux.

 

Years as a Cub: 10 (including this year)

Years as a Brave: 11

 

Cy Youngs as a Cub: 1

Cy Youngs as a Brave: 3

 

World Series Wins w/Cubs: 0

World Series Wins w/Braves: 1

 

I would consider these to be more important figures to a HoF committee than era, whip etc. Given what we are looking at right now it appears that the Braves are hands down his HoF cap. However, if Maddux somehow manages to put together a Cy Young season while the Cubs win the World Series then all hell breaks loose and who knows where he ends up.

 

You may also want to consider total pitching wins as well.

 

Pitching wins as a Cub - 126

Pitching wins as a Brave - 194

 

I'd love to see him go in with a Cub hat, but I believe that's another stat that might garner some consideration leaning in ATL's favor.

[gus_dog]

Braves hat. It's really not even debateable.

[gus_dog]

According to a book about the Cubs (I believe it was The Million to One Team) the real culprit was the Trib exec in charge of the Cubs at the time (I think it was Stanton Cook, but I'm not sure). Apparently Himes requested more money from the Trib to re-sign Maddux, but the Trib turned him down.

 

Didn't the Cubs offer more money than the Braves but at that point Maddux was just fed up with Cub's front office?

I thought it was Maddux offering to come back at a salary he had been offered by the Cubs back in July or so, but Himes said he could no longer offer that amount. I believe it was actually slightly less than the Braves were offering.

 

This is the closest to the truth. According to most reports, Himes offered Maddux a contract and Boras and Greg wanted to shop the offer. The Cubs told Maddux that was the best they could do and they needed an answer because they couldn't wait while other pitchers signed contracts. Boras told them that Maddux wasn't ready to sign, so Himes went out and signed Greg Hibbard, Jose Guzman, and someone for the bullpen. A few days later, when the only offer better than the Cubs came from the Yankees, Boras phoned back and wanted to take the Cubs offer. Himes told him the money was spent and the offer was no longer on the table. That to my recollection was how things transpired. Maddux then signed with the Braves, and we know the rest of the story.

 

One last thing. IIRC, the Cubs told Maddux to wait until the season was over becuase they did not want to do contract talks until the end of the season (some kind of (new?) club policy). Then, shortly thereafter, they announced the big deal locking up Sandberg for what was essentially the rest of his career. Maddux then said it would not matter what they offered - he was not going to sign with them.

 

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid organization.

 

When your reigning Cy Young award winnner says he wants to work out a LT deal to stay with your club, you do it. I mean, why not? He was young, healthy, and VERY effective. Nope, the Cubs management just treated him like trash. :x :x

 

It used to anger me to no end, each and every time I saw Maddux in that Braves uniform after that.

 

I mean, what a bunch of freaking morons Cub management was!!!!

[katway]

On February 19, 2004, Tribune posted a good article detailing Maddux's original departure.

 

Essentially, he agreed to a contract for $25 million for 5 years following the 1991 season. However, the Cubs renegged on the 5 year deal and Maddux settled for a one year deal to avoid arbitration.

 

the Cubs told Maddux to wait until after the 1992 season. Meanwhile, they renogotiated Ryno's deal during the 1992 spring training.

 

During the 1992 season All-Star Break, the Cubs offered 5 years @ $27 million in take it or leave it fashion and let Boras know that they didn't think a pitcher should be paid as highly as position players and Maddux wasn't that special. Maddux turned down the offer based on the organizations attitude when presenting it to Boras.

 

Following the 1992 season and Maddux's land slide Cy Young award, the Cubs upped their offer slightly for 5 years @ $27.5 million. Boras said the price went up with Maddux's strong performance in 1992 and he wanted 5 years @ 32 million.

 

The Cubs went out and signed Guzman and Randy Myers. Maddux got the Braves offer for 5 years @ $28 million. Maddux presented the Braves offer to Himes and Himes told him they just signed Randy Myers and didn't have the money to sign Maddux. So, Maddux signed with the Braves.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Good thing we had Randy Myers. Too bad we didn't have really good starting pitching for him to get more saves (and yes, I know he had 53 in 93).

[CubinNY]

On February 19, 2004, Tribune posted a good article detailing Maddux's original departure.

 

Essentially, he agreed to a contract for $25 million for 5 years following the 1991 season. However, the Cubs renegged on the 5 year deal and Maddux settled for a one year deal to avoid arbitration.

 

the Cubs told Maddux to wait until after the 1992 season. Meanwhile, they renogotiated Ryno's deal during the 1992 spring training.

 

During the 1992 season All-Star Break, the Cubs offered 5 years @ $27 million in take it or leave it fashion and let Boras know that they didn't think a pitcher should be paid as highly as position players and Maddux wasn't that special. Maddux turned down the offer based on the organizations attitude when presenting it to Boras.

 

Following the 1992 season and Maddux's land slide Cy Young award, the Cubs upped their offer slightly for 5 years @ $27.5 million. Boras said the price went up with Maddux's strong performance in 1992 and he wanted 5 years @ 32 million.

 

The Cubs went out and signed Guzman and Randy Myers. Maddux got the Braves offer for 5 years @ $28 million. Maddux presented the Braves offer to Himes and Himes told him they just signed Randy Myers and didn't have the money to sign Maddux. So, Maddux signed with the Braves.

 

Larry Himes was a friggen idiot. For some reason he never really thought that much of Maddux. One has to remember too, that this is before Boras was "Boras".

 

I was only more mad at the Cubs when Bill Madlock was traded. And I was only 4 or 5 at the time.

[VicCub]

Greg Maddux simply did not want to be a Cub. He had every opportunity to sign a fair contract with us but he didn't.

 

On the way out the door, Maddux said that he wanted to be on a team with a chance to win. Fine. Just don't pretend that Maddux was a true blue Cubbie who was unceremoniously dumped. We tried hard to sign him and the guy dumped on us. Not the other way around.

 

Does anyone honestly believe that Greg Maddux REALLY wanted to remain with the Cubs? With a fair deal on the table for a long, long time why didn't he?

[badgercub]

Maddux will go in with a Braves cap. 3 Cy Young awards and was an integral part of a team that won 10 straight division titles while he was there. Team success plays a factor.

[srbin84]

I think if Maddux resigns with the Cubs for 2 more years, the Cubs win the world series, and he averages 15 wins, he'll go in as a Cub.

[Backtobanks]

I think if Maddux resigns with the Cubs for 2 more years, the Cubs win the world series, and he averages 15 wins, he'll go in as a Cub.

 

Those are 3 pretty big "IF's".

[srbin84]

I think if Maddux resigns with the Cubs for 2 more years, the Cubs win the world series, and he averages 15 wins, he'll go in as a Cub.

 

Those are 3 pretty big "IF's".

 

Agreed.