Cubs OF

[gflore34]

Let me get this straight the Cubs opening day starting OF of Jones, Pierre and Murton is amongst the worst in Baseball. Yet, the Cardinals OF of Encarnacion, Edmonds and Taguchi is the OF of a WS caliber team?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

It's not about the comparison of specific pieces on your team. It's the overall composition that makes you win.

 

Our SS and RF are crap. pure and simple. Our pitching is the most worrisome aspect of our team. We could absolutely dominate if Wood, Prior, and Miller all get healthy and pitch like they can (unlikely considering the injuries/surgeries they have had).

 

The Cards don't have those question marks. We have the potential, but their situation is more realized potential and not hopes and dreams of healthier days.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It's not about the comparison of specific pieces on your team. It's the overall composition that makes you win.

 

Our SS and RF are crap. pure and simple. Our pitching is the most worrisome aspect of our team. We could absolutely dominate if Wood, Prior, and Miller all get healthy and pitch like they can (unlikely considering the injuries/surgeries they have had).

 

The Cards don't have those question marks. We have the potential, but their situation is more realized potential and not hopes and dreams of healthier days.

 

How do the Cards not have those question marks? Their SS isn't a world beater, and their RF is "crap". What's so special about their starting pitching?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

The Cards have regressed and are overrated. The NL Central is wide open. Edited April 4, 2006 by CardsFanInChiTown

[Derwood]

It's not about the comparison of specific pieces on your team. It's the overall composition that makes you win.

 

Our SS and RF are crap. pure and simple. Our pitching is the most worrisome aspect of our team. We could absolutely dominate if Wood, Prior, and Miller all get healthy and pitch like they can (unlikely considering the injuries/surgeries they have had).

 

The Cards don't have those question marks. We have the potential, but their situation is more realized potential and not hopes and dreams of healthier days.

 

How do the Cards not have those question marks? Their SS isn't a world beater, and their RF is "crap". What's so special about their starting pitching?

 

they don't have Rusch, Marshall and Williams in their rotation, that's what

[Guest]

It's not about the comparison of specific pieces on your team. It's the overall composition that makes you win.

 

Our SS and RF are crap. pure and simple. Our pitching is the most worrisome aspect of our team. We could absolutely dominate if Wood, Prior, and Miller all get healthy and pitch like they can (unlikely considering the injuries/surgeries they have had).

 

The Cards don't have those question marks. We have the potential, but their situation is more realized potential and not hopes and dreams of healthier days.

The Cards LF, RF & C are crap (offensively, at least). Their fifth starter is crap and their 3rd & 4th starters could wake up any day and remember that they've been crappy throughout their careers, too. Their bullpen is nowhere near the pen they've had the past couple years and Izzy is just a sneeze or two away from the DL again. Rolen has significant injury concerns and Edmonds is likely on the decline.

 

I still like their chances better than ours, but it isn't like they don't have questions.

[Dr. Cub]

I don't understand how 84 ML AB's is enough to qualify for a crap label. Esepecially when those 84 AB's have a decent line.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The Cards have regressed and are overrated. The NL Central is wide open.

 

:shock: From a Cards fan?!?!?!

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I think one reason the Cards are the odds on favorite is their ability in years past find players surprise and play well. If Ponson or Miles played for the Cubs it’d be a foregone conclusion on NSBB that they’d be failures.

[oldcubsfan]

It's not about the comparison of specific pieces on your team. It's the overall composition that makes you win.

 

Our SS and RF are crap. pure and simple. Our pitching is the most worrisome aspect of our team. We could absolutely dominate if Wood, Prior, and Miller all get healthy and pitch like they can (unlikely considering the injuries/surgeries they have had).

 

The Cards don't have those question marks. We have the potential, but their situation is more realized potential and not hopes and dreams of healthier days.

The Cards LF, RF & C are crap (offensively, at least). Their fifth starter is crap and their 3rd & 4th starters could wake up any day and remember that they've been crappy throughout their careers, too. Their bullpen is nowhere near the pen they've had the past couple years and Izzy is just a sneeze or two away from the DL again. Rolen has significant injury concerns and Edmonds is likely on the decline.

 

I still like their chances better than ours, but it isn't like they don't have questions.

Don't forget their hole at 2nd base.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Career numbers, projecting a .340/.420/.760 (OBP/SLG/OPS) line for Murton:

 

Encarnacion: 96 OPS+

Edmonds: 138

Taguchi: 95

Average: 110

 

Jones: 101

Pierre: 87

Murton: ~100

Average: 96

Edited April 4, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[Blueheart05]

The Cards have regressed and are overrated. The NL Central is wide open.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

It's not about the comparison of specific pieces on your team. It's the overall composition that makes you win.

 

Our SS and RF are crap. pure and simple. Our pitching is the most worrisome aspect of our team. We could absolutely dominate if Wood, Prior, and Miller all get healthy and pitch like they can (unlikely considering the injuries/surgeries they have had).

 

The Cards don't have those question marks. We have the potential, but their situation is more realized potential and not hopes and dreams of healthier days.

The Cards LF, RF & C are crap (offensively, at least). Their fifth starter is crap and their 3rd & 4th starters could wake up any day and remember that they've been crappy throughout their careers, too. Their bullpen is nowhere near the pen they've had the past couple years and Izzy is just a sneeze or two away from the DL again. Rolen has significant injury concerns and Edmonds is likely on the decline.

 

I still like their chances better than ours, but it isn't like they don't have questions.

 

They're the Cardinals. There's something to be said for luck. Take the same players and put them in Cubbie blue and they tear groins coming out the batters box.

 

Their players have proven that they can play through pain and be productive, e.g. Rolen and Edmonds. Rolen is one tough SOB. Edmonds is a drama queen, but he can play injured.

 

Pujols is a monster who consistently puts out. Lee has had one season with a .890+ OPS. Wow. Paint me impressed. The lowest Pujols has had is .955, otherwise he's above 1.010. Huge difference. Consistency is important.

 

We have Pierre in CF, i.e. an unproductive hitter, so we'll call him a leadoff hitter to increase his value. Jones is a fricking joke. Murton is our salvation, but he won't touch Edmonds-like numbers this season.

 

Wait until the season is over and compare OF production in Chicago and St. Louis. They'll take us easily unless Murton goes off with a .925+ OPS season.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

There's something to be said for luck. Take the same players and put them in Cubbie blue and they tear groins coming out the batters box.

 

One thing that makes my eyes roll is the "luck" thing. With all due respect I think the Cardinals have superior major league talent evaluators and coaching staff.

[SoonerCubFan]

Career numbers, projecting a .340/.420/.760 (OBP/SLG/OPS) line for Murton:

 

Encarnacion: 96 OPS+

Edmonds: 138

Taguchi: 95

Average: 110

 

Jones: 101

Pierre: 87

Murton: ~100

Average: 96

 

I'd be stunned if Murton is a mere league average hitter and anywhere close to your "projection". I'll venture to say he ends up over 120, although I'd also suggest Edmonds could likely be back over 150 as well.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Career numbers, projecting a .340/.420/.760 (OBP/SLG/OPS) line for Murton:

 

Encarnacion: 96 OPS+

Edmonds: 138

Taguchi: 95

Average: 110

 

Jones: 101

Pierre: 87

Murton: ~100

Average: 96

 

I'd be stunned if Murton is a mere league average hitter and anywhere close to your "projection". I'll venture to say he ends up over 120, although I'd also suggest Edmonds could likely be back over 150 as well.

 

I'm not overly optimistic about Murton, I've stuck with my .340/.420 prediction for all of the offseason. If he beats it that'd be fantastic, but in this simple comparison, he'd need to put up an OPS+ greater than Aramis in order to match the Cards OF as a whole.

[moorecg]

I think calling Ronny Crap "Pure and Simple" is a bit premature and pessemistic.

 

 

I also would like to know if there are people who believe that being a Cardinal automatically improves a mediocre player because of "luck", who are the same people who keep saying that having good chemistry is not important at all.

 

Not trying to pick a fight at all...I'd just assume that if you don't believe in Chemisry you can't believe in "cardinal luck" and vice versa...

 

That's off point though....

 

 

I think at the end of the year we'll have a pretty decent OF. I've got faith in Murton...he's never shown he can't hit, and I think Pierre and Jones will fit in fairly well with the line up....if we need improvement there I think its an area we can improve through mid season moves if we absolutely have to.

[jjgman21]

Career numbers, projecting a .340/.420/.760 (OBP/SLG/OPS) line for Murton:

 

Encarnacion: 96 OPS+

Edmonds: 138

Taguchi: 95

Average: 110

 

Jones: 101

Pierre: 87

Murton: ~100

Average: 96

 

that's great for comparing two teams. doesn't change the fact that the Cards don't have what many would consider a world series caliber team's outfield. also, career numbers aren't exactly the most meaningful way of looking at this comparison. not that three year splits helps the Cubs here since Encarnacion would probably have an advantage with three year splits, and Edmonds would probably be much higher.

 

and I agree that I don't think Murton will be down around league average.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Career numbers, projecting a .340/.420/.760 (OBP/SLG/OPS) line for Murton:

 

Encarnacion: 96 OPS+

Edmonds: 138

Taguchi: 95

Average: 110

 

Jones: 101

Pierre: 87

Murton: ~100

Average: 96

 

that's great for comparing two teams. doesn't change the fact that the Cards don't have what many would consider a world series caliber team's outfield. also, career numbers aren't exactly the most meaningful way of looking at this comparison. not that three year splits helps the Cubs here since Encarnacion would probably have an advantage with three year splits, and Edmonds would probably be much higher.

 

and I agree that I don't think Murton will be down around league average.

 

Definitely, I'm not trying to say that the Cards have a great outfield, just trying to illustrate that even their pedestrian outfield has quite an advantage on ours.

[snoodmonger]

Pujols is a monster who consistently puts out.

 

:shock:

 

Insert Edmonds joke here.

 

 

FWIW, I also think it's jumping the gun to label Ronny "Crap."

[LoneStarCubFan]

Career numbers, projecting a .340/.420/.760 (OBP/SLG/OPS) line for Murton:

 

Encarnacion: 96 OPS+

Edmonds: 138

Taguchi: 95

Average: 110

 

Jones: 101

Pierre: 87

Murton: ~100

Average: 96

 

that's great for comparing two teams. doesn't change the fact that the Cards don't have what many would consider a world series caliber team's outfield. also, career numbers aren't exactly the most meaningful way of looking at this comparison. not that three year splits helps the Cubs here since Encarnacion would probably have an advantage with three year splits, and Edmonds would probably be much higher.

 

and I agree that I don't think Murton will be down around league average.

 

Definitely, I'm not trying to say that the Cards have a great outfield, just trying to illustrate that even their pedestrian outfield has quite an advantage on ours.

 

My guess is that Edmonds' number will be much lower this year and Pierre's will be much higher. The outfield is a wash, IMO.

 

Rolen will spend significant time on DL again this year. Back problems don't just go away. Ramirez finally looks to be healthy. Edge to Chicago.

 

St. Louis has the better shortstop but the Cubs are better at second base. Middle infield is a wash.

 

Lee is one of the best defensive players in the the league and is entering his prime as a hitter. Pujols is quite simply the best player in the league. Advantage Cardinals.

 

Molina vs. Barrett, wash.

 

Rotation as it currently stands- Cardinals

 

Bullpen- Cubs

 

Bench- wash

 

If Pujols goes down, the Cardinals won't sniff the playoffs, with him they have a shot at winning the division. The Central is wide open.

[goonys evil twin]

Rolen will spend significant time on DL again this year. Back problems don't just go away. Ramirez finally looks to be healthy. Edge to Chicago.

 

That's a pretty arbitrary decision. Their injury riddled 3B will be injured again, ours will be just fine.

[Soul]

It's so early on Murton, so I try to rein in my enthusiasm, but he just seems to have everything right. His approach at the plate is excellent. He seems to really study the game and work to improve. He looks like he has been working out to improve his power.

 

I must say I'm very impressed with him right now. He could be a true Godsend for this team, bringing us from one of the worst outfields in baseball to average/passable.

 

Please keep going as you are, Murt 8)

[hankp101]

By my math:

Taguchi - 36

Edmonds - 35

Encarnacion - 29

avg . = 33

 

Murton - 24

Pierre - 28

Jones - 30

avg. = 27

 

Expecting the Cardinals to perform at their career average appears tenuous.

[David]

Is Taguchi really that old? I never would've guessed....