Why are Wilson and Walker so undervalued?

[DiamondMind]

 

There are other players who have been traded numerous times. Just because a guy has been on several teams does not necessarily mean he's a bad influence. Look at Reggie Sanders.

 

And his "big fat mouth?" When a reporter asks him in the midst of a bad season what he thinks so far, is he supposed to lie? Is he supposed to say they're playing well?

 

I never said he's a bad influence, I said I'm tired of his mouth. It seems every time there's a quote in the papers, it's from ol' Todd. Your opinion is worth more when you don't offer it every day. And while he shouldn't flat lie if the team is performing badly, saying we flat out suck can rub some players the wrong way who feel they are putting in 100% effort.

[erik316wttn]

 

There are other players who have been traded numerous times. Just because a guy has been on several teams does not necessarily mean he's a bad influence. Look at Reggie Sanders.

 

And his "big fat mouth?" When a reporter asks him in the midst of a bad season what he thinks so far, is he supposed to lie? Is he supposed to say they're playing well?

 

I never said he's a bad influence, I said I'm tired of his mouth. It seems every time there's a quote in the papers, it's from ol' Todd. Your opinion is worth more when you don't offer it every day. And while he shouldn't flat lie if the team is performing badly, saying we flat out suck can rub some players the wrong way who feel they are putting in 100% effort.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[ltb]

he has played less games each of the past two years. that is a numerical regression. His age increase and limited fielding ability are also factors sited . Those are facts , whether they meet your or my opinion of Walker is not relevent. Coach L

 

are you kidding me? he's played less games because HE WAS A BACKUP IN 2004. and last year he was injured by the carlos lee slide.

 

your "facts" are severely flawed. and how are his age and "limited fielding ability" relevant here? they're factors cited in what? your post makes no sense.

[nilodnayr]

 

There are other players who have been traded numerous times. Just because a guy has been on several teams does not necessarily mean he's a bad influence. Look at Reggie Sanders.

 

And his "big fat mouth?" When a reporter asks him in the midst of a bad season what he thinks so far, is he supposed to lie? Is he supposed to say they're playing well?

 

I never said he's a bad influence, I said I'm tired of his mouth. It seems every time there's a quote in the papers, it's from ol' Todd. Your opinion is worth more when you don't offer it every day. And while he shouldn't flat lie if the team is performing badly, saying we flat out suck can rub some players the wrong way who feel they are putting in 100% effort.

 

Ok, first thing about the bolded quote. I dont mean to attack the poster or anything but that quote is on par with some one who believes a pitchers value is measured by his wins. Secondly, he is a professional athlete, reporters interview him everyday. Hes not offering anything, its his job to answer their questions. If he refused you would say he has a bad attitude for not talking to the media. And unless you have the ego of Sosa, even if you are a professional athlete you can realize that you have had a bad game or string of games. Walker does not have special powers, he sees the game out there the same as everyone else. You can put forth 100% effort and still go on a 1-20 streak. I have never heard any quote where he has called out any player or said that no one has given out less than 100% effort (unlike Jeff Kent).

[Jehrico]

 

There are other players who have been traded numerous times. Just because a guy has been on several teams does not necessarily mean he's a bad influence. Look at Reggie Sanders.

 

And his "big fat mouth?" When a reporter asks him in the midst of a bad season what he thinks so far, is he supposed to lie? Is he supposed to say they're playing well?

 

I never said he's a bad influence, I said I'm tired of his mouth. It seems every time there's a quote in the papers, it's from ol' Todd. Your opinion is worth more when you don't offer it every day. And while he shouldn't flat lie if the team is performing badly, saying we flat out suck can rub some players the wrong way who feel they are putting in 100% effort.

 

You did say he has a bad attitude. What exactly has he said to back that up? What specifically has he been saying that you're so intolerably tired of hearing?

[TheRaven]

First, more than half the time you are on the field is defense. You field for 3 outs 9 times a game. You come to bat 3-4 times per game.

 

Yes, a team fields 3 outs 9 times a game, or we'll just say, fields 27 outs in a game. One player does not. Your logic is a bit flawed in that comparison.

 

Defense is an overrated quality and, for the most part, a quality that when graded, is graded poorly by those that are judging.

[rawaction]

First, more than half the time you are on the field is defense. You field for 3 outs 9 times a game. You come to bat 3-4 times per game.

 

Yes, a team fields 3 outs 9 times a game, or we'll just say, fields 27 outs in a game. One player does not. Your logic is a bit flawed in that comparison.

 

Defense is an overrated quality and, for the most part, a quality that when graded, is graded poorly by those that are judging.

 

Yeah, that's basically what I've been saying. In fact, you were arguing the opposite.

 

While I don't support a trade for Matos or other marginal players, I don't want Walker starting either. Half the time you're on the field, you're playing defense. All of our pitching except Maddux throws a lot of groundballs, as well. I'm tired of Walker's attitude, lax defense, and my candidate for starting and for the #2 hole is Hairston Jr., who is hitting the cover off the ball in ST. Pierre-Hairston is a lot of contact and speed at the top of the order.

[TruffleShuffle]

I never said he's a bad influence, I said I'm tired of his mouth.

 

I'm tired of the Cubs' ineptitude when it comes to getting on base... that's a real reason why they sucked last year and will struggle again this year.

[Jake]

Speaking on Wilson, There was a question in today's Q&A on Wilson:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06088/677516-126.stm

 

Behind in in AAA is Big Brad Eldred. Who probably strikes out more. But, when he gets a hold of one.....

 

Eldred didn't do much in his short time in the majors last year to warrent staying there. That he started the year in AA says something about him, though. Hence the bringing in of The Mayor.

 

We've got a bunch of guys who can play Right Field, so we bring in Burnitz. Hmm.. OK, two of them were hurt last year (Wilson & Gerut) Add Ray Sadler to that group! :-)

 

So, why are we trying to trade him? Obviously, we're not just trying to get rid of him else he'd be long gone.

 

I think it's more a matter of we need quality (i.e. an experience starter), so we'll have to trade qaulity. Which is either a sign of respect or a backhanded compliment.

 

Look for Wilson to be a DH in the AL next year (Just a guess)

[MPrior]

While I don't support a trade for Matos or other marginal players, I don't want Walker starting either. Half the time you're on the field, you're playing defense. All of our pitching except Maddux throws a lot of groundballs, as well. I'm tired of Walker's attitude, lax defense, and my candidate for starting and for the #2 hole is Hairston Jr., who is hitting the cover off the ball in ST. Pierre-Hairston is a lot of contact and speed at the top of the order.

 

Um. This bolded thing. Not really true. In fact, Maddux is probably the most groundball-oriented pitcher we've got, except maybe Z (I unfortunately don't have GB-FB ratios with me, so I could be wrong about the past year or two, but in general, Maddux has been a groundball pitcher throughout his career). And our pitchers tend to get A LOT of strikeouts. Those aren't the same thing as groundouts.

[UBlink]

While I don't support a trade for Matos or other marginal players, I don't want Walker starting either. Half the time you're on the field, you're playing defense. All of our pitching except Maddux throws a lot of groundballs, as well. I'm tired of Walker's attitude, lax defense, and my candidate for starting and for the #2 hole is Hairston Jr., who is hitting the cover off the ball in ST. Pierre-Hairston is a lot of contact and speed at the top of the order.

 

Um. This bolded thing. Not really true. In fact, Maddux is probably the most groundball-oriented pitcher we've got, except maybe Z (I unfortunately don't have GB-FB ratios with me, so I could be wrong about the past year or two, but in general, Maddux has been a groundball pitcher throughout his career). And our pitchers tend to get A LOT of strikeouts. Those aren't the same thing as groundouts.

 

Link

 

MPrior is right - it's Maddux, then Z, Williams, Rusch, with Prior and Wood bringing up the rear.

[ThePenguin11]

Wilson and Walker's strengths are not readily visible when you watch games. They take walks, work the count, and hit for some extra bases. They don't have great speed or bodybuilder physiques, they just hit and walk and sometimes(more often in Wilson's case), strike out. To the common fan(and maybe some front office people, I don't know), those qualities aren't seen as being as valuable as they are, and certainly not as "sexy" as being a 30-30 guy or something. Add in the fact that neither are stellar defensively(Wilson especially), and it adds up to them being valued for less than what they are.

 

Regarding Walker's defense and the 2003 season. Any reputation he got was far from undeserved after '03. He was AWFUL defensively in '03, an 84 Rate is just obscenely bad. However, another thing the common fan(and maybe some front office people, I don't know) doesn't recognize or acknowledge is that defense is not a static ability. Common perception of Pat Burrell is that he had a great start to his career(offensively speaking), then had a down year, but was able to bounce back. The same way with Walker. He had a down defensive year in '03, but bounced back to previous levels(which is a below average defender). However, due to public perception as fielding being a static ability, and the fact that Walker's norms were far from gold glove caliber, he has a bit of an unfair stigma as a very poor defender.

 

Is Walker really that patient? His walk rate in 2005 appears to me to be .0722 vs. the 2005 NL average of .0845.

 

It's not so much that Walker's patience leads to walks - it's that he rarely strikes out.

[ThePenguin11]

Instead of trading Walker, just platoon him with Hairston, or at worst have Walker be your first option off the bench late in games. There's no reason to trade a valuable offensive player who doesn't make much money. You could PH him, DH him in AL parks, and have him spell Hairston and he'd get 300 AB.

 

A platoon's kinda pointless because Walker is better at hitting LHPs and RHPs than Hairston. Walker's splits actually showed that he was hitting lefty pitchers much more efficiently, while still doing very well against the righties.

[goonys evil twin]

Instead of trading Walker, just platoon him with Hairston, or at worst have Walker be your first option off the bench late in games. There's no reason to trade a valuable offensive player who doesn't make much money. You could PH him, DH him in AL parks, and have him spell Hairston and he'd get 300 AB.

 

A platoon's kinda pointless because Walker is better at hitting LHPs and RHPs than Hairston. Walker's splits actually showed that he was hitting lefty pitchers much more efficiently, while still doing very well against the righties.

 

Last year Todd was better vs LHP than RHP, but over the past 3 years total, he's been better vs RHP, and it's even more of a difference over his career.