SI article on Bonds' steroid use.

[OleMissCub]

I don't see how that pic shows the case is closed.

 

Me neither.

 

If you went off looks alone, every running back at the N.F.L. combine last week was on the gas.

 

There's evidence, it's just elsewhere.

 

Football is played once per week, baseball 5-6 times per week. That makes all the difference in the world.

 

I agree, having done the whole D-I collegiate athletic thing and working out in the same gym with Basketball, Football, Tennis, Soccer Players, etc, I think it's difficult for a baseball player to sustain serious mass like that. All sports have different kinds of stress on the body and the physical stress of baseball doesn't lend itself to being able to maintain hulk-like girth.

[frostwyrm]

I can also say from experience that post-workout recovery times don't get any shorter as you get older. Rather the opposite.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Excellent article by Wojciechowski on ESPN.com, plus D.Lee gets a little love.

 

Bonds has his defenders -- lot's of them, including Derrek Lee, the Chicago Cubs All-Star first baseman who is everything Bonds isn't: a player who handles himself with grace and dignity.

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2358771

[wade]

I don't see how that pic shows the case is closed.

 

It kinda does. I used to lift weights like crazy and became quite big, benching a little over 300 lbs. Doing the type of workouts I did requires at least a day of recovery time, and you're weak and stiff during the recovery day. Baseball doesn't give you many days off, so I can't see how any drug-free person could do a linebacker's weightlifting program during the baseball season and still play 5-6 games per week at a peak performance level. Remember, one of the primary benefits of roids is that they dramatically reduce recovery time. Also, the season is 6 months long, so I don't see any way you could avoid losing a lot of muscle by September unless you continued to lift at the same pace at least through the first half of the season. I can tell you when your muscles get really big they also quickly deflate if you slack off. It is really hard work to stay huge and ripped. All these roid monsters stayed huge from April to October. There is no way they could have done that without chemical help.

 

Maybe every person is different, but once I put on muscle it doesn't go away. I may lose a little water weight if I back off for a while but that's it.

 

I'm just saying a photo alone, taken that very minute doesn't prove anything.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I could post a picture of Will Smith from I, Robot and say "see, roids" and I don't think that makes it so.

[frostwyrm]

I don't see how that pic shows the case is closed.

 

It kinda does. I used to lift weights like crazy and became quite big, benching a little over 300 lbs. Doing the type of workouts I did requires at least a day of recovery time, and you're weak and stiff during the recovery day. Baseball doesn't give you many days off, so I can't see how any drug-free person could do a linebacker's weightlifting program during the baseball season and still play 5-6 games per week at a peak performance level. Remember, one of the primary benefits of roids is that they dramatically reduce recovery time. Also, the season is 6 months long, so I don't see any way you could avoid losing a lot of muscle by September unless you continued to lift at the same pace at least through the first half of the season. I can tell you when your muscles get really big they also quickly deflate if you slack off. It is really hard work to stay huge and ripped. All these roid monsters stayed huge from April to October. There is no way they could have done that without chemical help.

 

Maybe every person is different, but once I put on muscle it doesn't go away. I may lose a little water weight if I back off for a while but that's it.

 

I'm just saying a photo alone, taken that very minute doesn't prove anything.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I could post a picture of Will Smith from I, Robot and say "see, roids" and I don't think that makes it so.

 

Will Smith has never played a 162-game 6-month baseball season while lifting.

[Wilson A2000]

I don't think it is normal to keep muscle when you stop working out. You are just lucky. Bonds always worked out hard. I'll give him that. But do you find it odd that he just happened to gain 15 pounds of pure muscle in 100 days when he was never able so before? Do you think he worked out harder in the 98 offseason and he was able to hit nearly twice as many homeruns in some years than he was before?

[Wilson A2000]

Will Smith had been cut in past movies. He can work out hard and look good for a movie. Smith can turn in on and off. But Bonds worked out hard for years and never had the incredible results that he had after 98. Whadya think happened? Oh he just probably worked out extra hard, lost his hair, had back acne, and got a big forehead accidentally.

[frostwyrm]

Will Smith had been cut in past movies. He can work out hard and look good for a movie. Smith can turn in on and off. But Bonds worked out hard for years and never had the incredible results that he had after 98. Whadya think happened? Oh he just probably worked out extra hard, lost his hair, had back acne, and got a big forehead accidentally.

 

Smith can work out as hard as he wants because he doesn't have to catch up to a 95 mph. fastball the next afternoon.

[RynoRules]

I can also say from experience that post-workout recovery times don't get any shorter as you get older. Rather the opposite.

 

Damn straight. I am almost 30, and have observed a noticeable difference between my ability to recover (particularly in the lower half of my body) as I have gotten older. Imagine how that feels once you get past 35. Or 40.

 

The better comparison pics are 98 (before he supposedly started) to 99 (the first season afte he started). Look at the back page of today's Trib. Or see below:

 

1998:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/1998/allstar/news/1998/07/08/all_star_post_coors/bonds_ap.jpg

 

1999

http://www.geocities.com/taku_bagwell/card/bondsauto.jpg

 

Look at the difference in head size (and chest size).

[wade]

I don't think it is normal to keep muscle when you stop working out. You are just lucky. Bonds always worked out hard. I'll give him that. But do you find it odd that he just happened to gain 15 pounds of pure muscle in 100 days when he was never able so before? Do you think he worked out harder in the 98 offseason and he was able to hit nearly twice as many homeruns in some years than he was before?

 

See, this is my point. I may be totally different from other people (and I may sound like an internet embellisher! :^o ) but I did put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. The spring of my 34th birthday and again the spring of my 35th. That's a total of 30, and I've lost hardly any. I hope to do it again since I turned 36 last Sunday.

 

I tell this because I worked out a lot in the preceeding 7 years and didn't gain a lick. Only when I completely dedicated my diet, lifestyle, and certain lifts did this happen, and it was extremely difficult while working full-time and being a married father of two.

 

But, it did happen and so when people say it's impossible I disagree. Especially in the case of professional athletes with unlimited time, motivation, and money to help with their goals (even if they do it without the juice).

 

Again, I believe Bonds did steroids. What I don't count as proof is that he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the '98 off-season. That on its own does not seal the deal for me. Nor does one picture.

 

All that other stuff in the book excerpt is convincing enough.

[wade]

Will Smith had been cut in past movies. He can work out hard and look good for a movie. Smith can turn in on and off. But Bonds worked out hard for years and never had the incredible results that he had after 98. Whadya think happened? Oh he just probably worked out extra hard, lost his hair, had back acne, and got a big forehead accidentally.

 

Smith can work out as hard as he wants because he doesn't have to catch up to a 95 mph. fastball the next afternoon.

 

My point in that earlier analogy is that a picture alone doesn't do it for me. (Unless you've got one with Barry and a big fat needle!). The picture was posted with "Case closed" under it. I just disagree with the fact that a guy is extremely muscular proving his use of anabolics.

 

Post the link to the story and say "case closed" and I agree.

[frostwyrm]

I don't think it is normal to keep muscle when you stop working out. You are just lucky. Bonds always worked out hard. I'll give him that. But do you find it odd that he just happened to gain 15 pounds of pure muscle in 100 days when he was never able so before? Do you think he worked out harder in the 98 offseason and he was able to hit nearly twice as many homeruns in some years than he was before?

 

See, this is my point. I may be totally different from other people (and I may sound like an internet embellisher! :^o ) but I did put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. The spring of my 34th birthday and again the spring of my 35th. That's a total of 30, and I've lost hardly any. I hope to do it again since I turned 36 last Sunday.

 

I tell this because I worked out a lot in the preceeding 7 years and didn't gain a lick. Only when I completely dedicated my diet, lifestyle, and certain lifts did this happen, and it was extremely difficult while working full-time and being a married father of two.

 

But, it did happen and so when people say it's impossible I disagree. Especially in the case of professional athletes with unlimited time, motivation, and money to help with their goals (even if they do it without the juice).

 

Again, I believe Bonds did steroids. What I don't count as proof is that he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the '98 off-season. That on its own does not seal the deal for me. Nor does one picture.

 

All that other stuff in the book excerpt is convincing enough.

 

I've put on 15 lbs. of muscle in about 75 days, but I was younger then. I doubt I could do it now.

[wade]

Will Smith has never played a 162-game 6-month baseball season while lifting.

 

Barry Bonds has never whipped a bunch of SR2 robots. :D

[Wilson A2000]

I don't think it is normal to keep muscle when you stop working out. You are just lucky. Bonds always worked out hard. I'll give him that. But do you find it odd that he just happened to gain 15 pounds of pure muscle in 100 days when he was never able so before? Do you think he worked out harder in the 98 offseason and he was able to hit nearly twice as many homeruns in some years than he was before?

 

See, this is my point. I may be totally different from other people (and I may sound like an internet embellisher! :^o ) but I did put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. The spring of my 34th birthday and again the spring of my 35th. That's a total of 30, and I've lost hardly any. I hope to do it again since I turned 36 last Sunday.

 

I tell this because I worked out a lot in the preceeding 7 years and didn't gain a lick. Only when I completely dedicated my diet, lifestyle, and certain lifts did this happen, and it was extremely difficult while working full-time and being a married father of two.

 

But, it did happen and so when people say it's impossible I disagree. Especially in the case of professional athletes with unlimited time, motivation, and money to help with their goals (even if they do it without the juice).

 

Again, I believe Bonds did steroids. What I don't count as proof is that he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the '98 off-season. That on its own does not seal the deal for me. Nor does one picture.

 

All that other stuff in the book excerpt is convincing enough.

 

1. You didn't mention that you were on steroids :D

 

2. Barry always worked out hard. You said you worked out harder and were extra dedicated. I doubt Barry was so dedicated that even after being an incredible athlete beforehand he was so dedicated that he gained 15 extra pounds.

[wade]

I don't think it is normal to keep muscle when you stop working out. You are just lucky. Bonds always worked out hard. I'll give him that. But do you find it odd that he just happened to gain 15 pounds of pure muscle in 100 days when he was never able so before? Do you think he worked out harder in the 98 offseason and he was able to hit nearly twice as many homeruns in some years than he was before?

 

See, this is my point. I may be totally different from other people (and I may sound like an internet embellisher! :^o ) but I did put on 15 pounds of muscle in 100 days. The spring of my 34th birthday and again the spring of my 35th. That's a total of 30, and I've lost hardly any. I hope to do it again since I turned 36 last Sunday.

 

I tell this because I worked out a lot in the preceeding 7 years and didn't gain a lick. Only when I completely dedicated my diet, lifestyle, and certain lifts did this happen, and it was extremely difficult while working full-time and being a married father of two.

 

But, it did happen and so when people say it's impossible I disagree. Especially in the case of professional athletes with unlimited time, motivation, and money to help with their goals (even if they do it without the juice).

 

Again, I believe Bonds did steroids. What I don't count as proof is that he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the '98 off-season. That on its own does not seal the deal for me. Nor does one picture.

 

All that other stuff in the book excerpt is convincing enough.

 

1. You didn't mention that you were on steroids :D

 

2. Barry always worked out hard. You said you worked out harder and were extra dedicated. I doubt Barry was so dedicated that even after being an incredible athlete beforehand he was so dedicated that he gained 15 extra pounds.

 

1. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that! No seriously, the only pee test I'd fail is for alcohol. (if there is such a thing)

 

2. Good point, he was already elite before the change and I of course was not. I believe he did use steroids to make that change, just that the change itself in and of itself is not where the proof lies.

[frostwyrm]

I still do have a tendency to put on unwanted muscle in my upper body. I am a distance runner now and I like to stay as light as possible but if I lift anything heavy my arms and shoulders blow up real fast, consequently I try to avoid working those muscles much. That's just extra baggage as far as I'm concerned, and it doesn't do my knees any good either.

[Wilson A2000]

Sounds like you guys have far too easy of a time adding muscle. Please talk to Tyson Chandler and share your secrets.

[OleMissCub]

Sounds like you guys have far too easy of a time adding muscle. Please talk to Tyson Chandler and share your secrets.

 

even in the best shape i was ever in my whole life (probably around the time of my avatar...i'm old and chubby now) I was about 6'2, 190 and could barely bench my own weight. I was never able to lift weights or gain muscle very well for some reason.

[UK1679666180]

http://mchammer.blogspot.com/2006/03/barry-bonds_09.html

 

:!:

 

VLV-

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

http://mchammer.blogspot.com/2006/03/barry-bonds_09.html

 

:!:

 

VLV-

 

:lol:

 

What were you even doing on MC Hammer's blog, UK?

[wade]

Under know circumstances should you post links to that site.

[UK1679666180]

http://mchammer.blogspot.com/2006/03/barry-bonds_09.html

 

:!:

 

VLV-

 

:lol:

 

What were you even doing on MC Hammer's blog, UK?

 

Private and censored for your protection. Honestly, one of my favorite baseball sites posted the link.

[Soul]

Under know circumstances should you proofread your work, MC. :roll:

[Mizzou]

What if Barry never did roids? Could you imagine what he's going through right now? I'm not saying he never did roids. Personally, I think he's been on roids for several years. But it is interesting to consider the possibility that he never was on steroids.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Neyer makes a rather rational plea about Bonds in his recent article.

 

Link.

 

OK, but what would you do, if you could vote?

 

A: I think I would vote for the guy. According to the latest revelations (or, if you prefer, allegations), Bonds didn't get into the performance-enhancing drugs until after the 1998 season. At that point, his career totals included 1,917 hits and 411 home runs. He had won eight Gold Gloves and three Most Valuable Player Awards. He was 34. It seems to me that Bonds, if he had retired at that moment, would have received a good deal of support from the Hall of Fame voters. I know that if he had enjoyed a fairly typical career decline, he would have retired a few years ago with overwhelming qualifications.

 

Performance-enhancing drugs did turn Bonds into a figure of great historical significance (statistically speaking, at least). They did not turn him into a Hall of Famer. That came from good genes and (let us charitably assume) plenty of hard work. It seems to me that if you don't vote for Bonds, you're doing it to punish him for the (perceived) ill he has done to the game. Perhaps that is the appropriate reaction. But I'm not sure "moralist" is in the voter's job description. I do know that character is supposed to be considered. But with very few exceptions, it hasn't been.