David and Goliath: Closers

[imb]

have you ever actually seen any of those closers pitch?

 

I have. I'm not debating the fact that some are better than others, or some throw harder, etc. I just don't like the David vs. Golliath comparision (or at any time, rather) because people always misuse it.

 

I wasnt talking to you.

[RyCubsFan]

GAGNE = GOLIATH

 

Don't forget about Gange.

 

I like Dempster though. He did a great closing last year. I see no reason why he can't do it again. If anything, with a year of experience in the roll, he should be better.

[craig]

Dempster's slider is really, really good, and his fastball isn't exactly slow. He's no Lidge or wagner, but his stuff compares favorably to the majority of closers.

 

It's all a question of control with him.

 

Obviusly he won't do so well as last year. But I think there's a good chance that he'll be pretty decent and perform at or above league average for a closer.

[wiggum742]

if you have questions about demspter, look at his splits from last year.

 

as a starter:

ERA - 5.35

avg. against - .280

 

as a reliever

ERA - 1.85

avg. against .218

 

he was way better as a closer last year than as a starter, and one of the best closers last year

[goonys evil twin]

if you have questions about demspter, look at his splits from last year.

 

as a starter:

ERA - 5.35

avg. against - .280

 

as a reliever

ERA - 1.85

avg. against .218

 

he was way better as a closer last year than as a starter, and one of the best closers last year

 

He was really good, and Dusty should get crap for not starting him there from the beginning when that was clearly Hendry's plan (he said it over and over all offseason). But reasonable people can still have questions about how he'll hold up. Control has always been an issue, and it didn't disappear. Inconsistency has been a part of his career.

[MPrior]

if you have questions about demspter, look at his splits from last year.

 

as a starter:

ERA - 5.35

avg. against - .280

 

as a reliever

ERA - 1.85

avg. against .218

 

he was way better as a closer last year than as a starter, and one of the best closers last year

 

He was really good, and Dusty should get crap for not starting him there from the beginning when that was clearly Hendry's plan (he said it over and over all offseason). But reasonable people can still have questions about how he'll hold up. Control has always been an issue, and it didn't disappear. Inconsistency has been a part of his career.

 

The optimist in me thinks that control will be less of a problem for him in a relief role, since he can rely more heavily on the fastball/slider combo, and not worry about using all his pitches as much. That way he'll throw fewer pitches that are tough for him to control, and while I'm sure he'll never be a corner-painter (that's right; "corner-painter") like, say, Glavine, he might struggle a bit less.

 

Then again, the pessimist in me is a whole different story.

[soccer10k]

You guys may be overlooking Rivera as the most dominant. He really only has one completely filthy pitch, but that pitch (his cut fastball) is about as filthy as they come. It's pretty much unhittable. And yeah, he may be on the near side of his heyday, but still. Any discussion of dominating closers has to include him (as much as I despise the Yankees).

 

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned Rivera as a Goliath closer. Rivera has exactly one pitch, the cut fastball. When a hitter steps into the box, he knows exactly what Rivera's going to throw and he still can't hit it. That's a definition of scary. All the other pitchers have multiple pitches. Lidge with high 90's fastball and a slider. Gagne has multiple pitches. Wagner has a fastball and change. All Rivera does is go out and throw cut fastballs and he's become arguably the greatest as far as closers are concerned. That's scary.

 

And no I don't like the Yankees, in fact I hate them.

[Outshined_One]

Haven't the Cubs handed Lidge more blown saves than any other team?

[FergieJ31]

You guys may be overlooking Rivera as the most dominant. He really only has one completely filthy pitch, but that pitch (his cut fastball) is about as filthy as they come.

 

Reading this I'm reminded of Mark Grace's leadoff single in the 9th inning of the 2001 WS. His post game comment was something along the lines of "Mariano Rivera is the best reliever in the game. It's like winning in the bottom of the ninth against God."

[BCVM22]

Haven't the Cubs handed Lidge more blown saves than any other team?

 

He's either blown saves or been handed a loss against the Cubs on July 1, 2004 at Wrigley (walkoff homer to Sammy), August 24, 2004 @ Minute Maid (Cubs go ahead off of Lidge, Macias blows it with an error) May 24, 2005 @ Wrigley (rally in the bottom of the 8th), September 30, 2005 @ Minute Maid (Murton leads the charge to a 9th inning rally).

 

Since becoming Houston's closer in June 2004, he has a W-L record of 0-3 against the Cubs with a 6.52 ERA (7 ER in 9.2 IP), 3 of 7 in save opportunities. Note that on games where he blew saves, the Astros didn't necessarily lose, but you're right, assuming I didn't calculate anything wrong, it does appear the Cubs are able to get to Lidge with some frequency.