Jacque Jones

[Balsa]

Hey all, I was wondering if someone could check my stats on this...

 

I was thinking about what Jacque was saying about 'trying to do too much' after Torii Hunter got knocked out of the season at the end of July. So I decided to check his stats by month to see if this had any merit.

 

The results:

 

Jacque Jones Not including Aug, Sept, Oct

 

351 AB 96 Hits, 16 doubles, 3 triples, 15 HR, 53 RBI, 41 BB, 74 SO, 9 SB, 3 CS, 163 TB

 

Totals:

 

.273 AvG - .349 OBP - .464 SLG

 

The only problem was that I forgot to include HBP and SF into the math, and I can't be bothered to recalculate it all.

 

But as it seems, he was correct because that line is certainly different from his season total of .249/.319/.438. Not saying that this Jones signing is now a stroke of genius, but maybe it's not quite so bad as it appeared to initially be.

 

Also, his home/away stats are interesting.

 

Home: .242/.320/.402

Away: .255/.318/.475

 

Thoughts?

[Balsa]

Nevermind. Edited February 2, 2006 by Balsa

[Magnetic Curses]

Also, can anyone explain why his OBP% is relatively the same at Home and Away when he has:

 

*Roughly the same number of ABs

*Roughly the same number of hits

*Roughly the same number of Walks

*Twenty more Strikeouts at home

 

:-s

 

because strikeouts have nothing to do with OBP.

[goonys evil twin]

I was thinking about what Jacque was saying about 'trying to do too much' after Torii Hunter got knocked out of the season at the end of July.

 

But as it seems, he was correct because that line is certainly different from his season total of .249/.319/.438. Not saying that this Jones signing is now a stroke of genius, but maybe it's not quite so bad as it appeared to initially be.

 

If last August and September were the only times in his career he struggled, maybe this theory would hold water. Unfortunately, he's been an inadaquate right fielder throughout most of his career, and is very likely to continue not doing enough with the Cubs.

[Balsa]

Also, can anyone explain why his OBP% is relatively the same at Home and Away when he has:

 

*Roughly the same number of ABs

*Roughly the same number of hits

*Roughly the same number of Walks

*Twenty more Strikeouts at home

 

:-s

 

because strikeouts have nothing to do with OBP.

 

#-o

[goonys evil twin]

Also, can anyone explain why his OBP% is relatively the same at Home and Away when he has:

 

*Roughly the same number of ABs

*Roughly the same number of hits

*Roughly the same number of Walks

*Twenty more Strikeouts at home

 

:-s

 

Strikeouts don't matter. OBP is H + W + HBP / PA (or something similar).

 

The inverse of OBP would be how often you make an out. It doesn't matter what type of out you make, what matters is how many, or how few, depending on how you look at it.

[Magnetic Curses]

Also, can anyone explain why his OBP% is relatively the same at Home and Away when he has:

 

*Roughly the same number of ABs

*Roughly the same number of hits

*Roughly the same number of Walks

*Twenty more Strikeouts at home

 

:-s

 

because strikeouts have nothing to do with OBP.

 

#-o

 

it's okay, you're just thinking too hard about it.

[Balsa]

Yeah I'm not sure why I thought that OBP had any relation to walks, I just calculated it (not using strikeouts) above.... ](*,)

[bmkhawk]

But, logically speaking, if he put the ball in play twenty more times on the road than he did at home over roughly the same amount of at-bats...wouldn't it be likely that his OBP on the road would be a bit better than it was at home? 20 more balls in play is 20 more chances of a batted ball falling in there for a hit.

[goonys evil twin]

Yeah I'm not sure why I thought that OBP had any relation to walks, I just calculated it (not using strikeouts) above.... ](*,)

 

You have to stop hitting bricks with your head.

[goonys evil twin]

But, logically speaking, if he put the ball in play twenty more times on the road than he did at home over roughly the same amount of at-bats...wouldn't it be likely that his OBP on the road would be a bit better than it was at home? 20 more balls in play is 20 more chances of a batted ball falling in there for a hit.

 

Not all batted balls are equal. A lot of contact is just garbage contact, which is why "just put the ball in play" is hardly an effective strategy at the major league level. It works at lower levels, where defense is weak, but not in the majors.

[Balsa]

Yeah I'm not sure why I thought that OBP had any relation to walks, I just calculated it (not using strikeouts) above.... ](*,)

 

You have to stop hitting bricks with your head.

 

:lol:

 

If last August and September were the only times in his career he struggled, maybe this theory would hold water. Unfortunately, he's been an inadaquate right fielder throughout most of his career, and is very likely to continue not doing enough with the Cubs.

Back on topic, yes this is true. Even if this season wasn't as bad as his numbers suggest, there are still other years where he didn't have an excuse.

 

But I thought it was interesting how the numbers lined up with Torii's injury.

[CubDad4Ever]

Not all contact is contact. But strikeouts are never of value. Sometimes i believe people confuse a high ops guy with huge whiff totals as validating as strikeouts are not bad. Striking out is never productive , all things equal. I did not mean this as an inditment of anyone in particular. Just having read some articles where those lines seemed blurred. God Bless and great takes everyone. Coach L.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Not all contact is contact. But strikeouts are never of value. Sometimes i believe people confuse a high ops guy with huge whiff totals as validating as strikeouts are not bad. Striking out is never productive , all things equal. I did not mean this as an inditment of anyone in particular. Just having read some articles where those lines seemed blurred. God Bless and great takes everyone. Coach L.

 

Strikeouts are never of value, but avoiding strikeouts for the sake of avoiding of strikeouts isn't good either, which is what Goony was getting at. Someone who sacrifices the ability to hit for average and/or power to avoid K's isn't helping the team by doing so, except in specific(and ultimately rare) situations.

[CubinNY]

Not all contact is contact. But strikeouts are never of value. Sometimes i believe people confuse a high ops guy with huge whiff totals as validating as strikeouts are not bad. Striking out is never productive , all things equal. I did not mean this as an inditment of anyone in particular. Just having read some articles where those lines seemed blurred. God Bless and great takes everyone. Coach L.

 

True, but striking out is better than hitting into a double play. I wish Neifie would have struck out a little more last year.

 

I think that is part of goony's point. A weak roller to the 2nd baseman withh a runnner on first is much worse than a K.

[goonys evil twin]

A strikeout has value when it prevents grounding into a double play, which is something guys like Neifi Perez do far too often.

[UK1679666180]

Not all contact is contact. But strikeouts are never of value. Sometimes i believe people confuse a high ops guy with huge whiff totals as validating as strikeouts are not bad. Striking out is never productive , all things equal. I did not mean this as an inditment of anyone in particular. Just having read some articles where those lines seemed blurred. God Bless and great takes everyone. Coach L.

 

Strikeouts are never of value, but avoiding strikeouts for the sake of avoiding of strikeouts isn't good either, which is what Goony was getting at. Someone who sacrifices the ability to hit for average and/or power to avoid K's isn't helping the team by doing so, except in specific(and ultimately rare) situations.

 

Strikeouts can also be an indication of a hitter who works the count and is not afraid of hitting w/two strikes.

 

Hitters can be equally productive with a higher K ratio, it all depends on the hitter. Ideally, you want as few as Ks as possible, but if he is productive with an approach that includes having a high K rate, I wouldn't change it.

 

If you've been taught zone-hitting, you're typically going to have a higher BB/K ratio. I am a proponent of zone-hitting, btw.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If you've been taught zone-hitting, you're typically going to have a higher BB/K ratio. I am a proponent of zone-hitting, btw.

 

Is that a more refined "look for a pitch in your spot" appraoch?

[Balsa]

Not all contact is contact. But strikeouts are never of value. Sometimes i believe people confuse a high ops guy with huge whiff totals as validating as strikeouts are not bad. Striking out is never productive , all things equal. I did not mean this as an inditment of anyone in particular. Just having read some articles where those lines seemed blurred. God Bless and great takes everyone. Coach L.

 

True, but striking out is better than hitting into a double play. I wish Neifie would have struck out a little more last year.

 

I think that is part of goony's point. A weak roller to the 2nd baseman withh a runnner on first is much worse than a K.

 

I specifically remember cheering on multiple occasions when Neifi would strike out rather than ground into a double play. *shudder*

[UK1679666180]

Players can get the maximum amount of bat speed in a smaller zone. The shorter the look, the greater the bat speed can be generated. Hitters shorten their "strike zone" to about the size of an 8X10 picture and only swing at a pitch in that zone. If the pitch does not enter that zone, let it go, even if it goes beyond that zone and is still a strike, unless there is already two strikes in the count where you go back to the original strike zone.

[fromthestretch]

Hey all, I was wondering if someone could check my stats on this...

 

I was thinking about what Jacque was saying about 'trying to do too much' after Torii Hunter got knocked out of the season at the end of July. So I decided to check his stats by month to see if this had any merit.

 

The results:

 

Jacque Jones Not including Aug, Sept, Oct

 

351 AB 96 Hits, 16 doubles, 3 triples, 15 HR, 53 RBI, 41 BB, 74 SO, 9 SB, 3 CS, 163 TB

 

Totals:

 

.273 AvG - .349 OBP - .464 SLG

 

The only problem was that I forgot to include HBP and SF into the math, and I can't be bothered to recalculate it all.

 

But as it seems, he was correct because that line is certainly different from his season total of .249/.319/.438. Not saying that this Jones signing is now a stroke of genius, but maybe it's not quite so bad as it appeared to initially be.

 

Also, his home/away stats are interesting.

 

Home: .242/.320/.402

Away: .255/.318/.475

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm curious how he explains his 2004 numbers, when Hunter was healthy and playing everyday. Was he trying to do too much because Mauer was hurt?

[Balsa]

I'm curious how he explains his 2004 numbers, when Hunter was healthy and playing everyday. Was he trying to do too much because Mauer was hurt?

 

First of all, he never 'explained' his poor numbers by saying Torii was hurt, he just mentioned that he felt he was trying too hard to pull the whole team when Torii went down, and I checked the numbers and they work.

 

Regardless, I hope he'll be hitting #6 (276/.335/.458 over the last 3 years), as that seems to be the best spot in the lineup for him (aside from leadoff which is filled). And we can all pray to Jebus that Dusty doesn't bat him #2, where his line is .225/.299/.350 (over the last three years).

 

Finally, I was just about to hit 'reply' when I saw this. It's not an excuse for poor performance, but it would affect my performance on the field.

 

Burdened by worries about his father's health and his status with the team, Jacque Jones never seemed comfortable and carefree in 2004. Still, he produced power, but lost points off his batting average and endured prolonged slumps at a point in his career when he was expected to improve his patience and consistency. He enjoyed a productive Division Series against New York in the days following his father's death.

[Chris]

I specifically remember cheering on multiple occasions when Neifi would strike out rather than ground into a double play. *shudder*

 

I remember that being the sentiment in several game threads last year.

[JWCUB]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the idea of a discussion board to state your views and opinions, as well as to learn and understand others views and opinions? With an open mind.

[Balsa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the idea of a discussion board to state your views and opinions, as well as to learn and understand others views and opinions? With an open mind.

 

Do you have the right thread?

 

Also, back on topic:

 

Who do you guys think we should platoon Jones with against lefties?

 

Restovich?

Mabry?

Grissom?

Hairston?