2006 Lineup

[CubsFanSince1978]

My lineup is probably not the popular one here, but I'll explain why I think it should go this way:

 

 

Pierre CF

Cedeno SS

Lee 1B

Aramis 3B

Jones RF (this is where a lot of you say NOOOO)

Murton LF

Walker 2B

Barrett C

 

 

Everybody agrees Pierre should leadoff (even Dusty lol). Cedeno is the first controversial figure here because most of you are not sold on him yet. I think he's ready for the job. The kid is hungry and I don't think pressure at that spot is going to bother him. I gave my views on why he should bat 2nd. on my Cedeno & Murton topic. His OBP is going to be ok, or better than that. Lee is our 3 unless Aram gets sizzling hot. Now, Jones is the main piece of the puzzle here.....if he can improve his hitting against lefties, then he will help this team big time. I hope that his chat with Tony Gwyn has been fruitful. Jones is taking the place in the lineup of where Burnitz left off. I have him at 5th because of his power. In a good season, he can hit 25-30 homeruns, and drive in 90-100 RBIs (if we have men on base). You can't waste that kind of potential RBI production at the 7th spot where some of you want him. I'm more optimistic and I think that he's out to prove the naysayers wrong. He has Lee and Aram around him, so he won't feel like he has to carry the team on his shoulders like with the Twins in the last couple of years. Murton has the capability of being a 2 hitter, but has enough pop to be a 6th. Walker is a doubles hitter and drives in runs. Walker typically has a .350 OBP, but he doesn't seem like a patient hitter to me. When he's hot, his OBP will stay up. I remember in the beginning of 2004 that his OBP was over .400 and he did very well, but then in 2004 and 2005, he went through a long drought around May or June. He tends to be aggressive and is a pull hitter, he hits into a lot of ground balls, which can turn into double plays. He's too slow to be an effective 2-hitter. Despite Barrett having one of the best BAs for a catcher, he's great getting tons of meaningless hits with nobody in scoring position. For a good reason he bats 7th or 8th.

Edited January 30, 2006 by CubsFanSince1978

[RockTheIvy]

My lineup is probably not the popular one here, but I'll explain why I think it should go this way:

 

 

Pierre CF

Cedeno SS

Lee 1B

Aramis 3B

Jones RF (this is where a lot of you say NOOOO)

Murton LF

Walker 2B

Barrett C

 

 

Everybody agrees Pierre should leadoff (even Dusty lol). Cedeno is the first controversial figure here because most of you are not sold on him yet. I think he's ready for the job. The kid is hungry and I don't think pressure at that spot is going to bother him. I gave my views on why he should bat 2nd. on my Cedeno & Murton topic. His OBP is going to be ok, or better than that. Lee is our 3 unless Aram gets sizzling hot. Now, Jones is the main piece of the puzzle here.....if he can improve his hitting against lefties, then he will help this team big time. I hope that his chat with Tony Gwyn has been fruitful. Jones is taking the place in the lineup of where Burnitz left off. I have him at 5th because of his power. In a good season, he can hit 25-30 homeruns, and drive in 90-100 RBIs (if we have men on base). You can't waste that kind of potential RBI production at the 7th spot where some of you want him. I'm more optimistic and I think that he's out to prove the naysayers wrong. He has Lee and Aram around him, so he won't feel like he has to carry the team on his shoulders like with the Twins in the last couple of years. Murton has the capability of being a 2 hitter, but has enough pop to be a 6th. Walker is a doubles hitter and drives in runs. Walker typically has a .350 OBP, but he doesn't seem like a patient hitter to me. When he's hot, his OBP will stay up. I remember in the beginning of 2004 that his OBP was over .400 and he did very well, but then in 2004 and 2005, he went through a long drought around May or June. He tends to be aggressive and is a pull hitter, he hits into a lot of ground balls, which can turn into double plays. He's too slow to be an effective 2-hitter. Despite Barrett having one of the best BAs for a catcher, he's great getting tons of meaningless hits with nobody in scoring position. For a good reason he bats 7th or 8th, despite having one of the best BAs for a catcher.

 

I don't think that's a bad lineup. To me, as long as Jones isn't batting 2nd or between Lee and ARAM it's fine.

[stitchface]

I would rather see Walker 5th and Jones 7th. I'm not opposed to trying Cedeno 2nd to see how he does.

[CubsFanSince1978]

My lineup is probably not the popular one here, but I'll explain why I think it should go this way:

 

 

Pierre CF

Cedeno SS

Lee 1B

Aramis 3B

Jones RF (this is where a lot of you say NOOOO)

Murton LF

Walker 2B

Barrett C

 

 

Everybody agrees Pierre should leadoff (even Dusty lol). Cedeno is the first controversial figure here because most of you are not sold on him yet. I think he's ready for the job. The kid is hungry and I don't think pressure at that spot is going to bother him. I gave my views on why he should bat 2nd. on my Cedeno & Murton topic. His OBP is going to be ok, or better than that. Lee is our 3 unless Aram gets sizzling hot. Now, Jones is the main piece of the puzzle here.....if he can improve his hitting against lefties, then he will help this team big time. I hope that his chat with Tony Gwyn has been fruitful. Jones is taking the place in the lineup of where Burnitz left off. I have him at 5th because of his power. In a good season, he can hit 25-30 homeruns, and drive in 90-100 RBIs (if we have men on base). You can't waste that kind of potential RBI production at the 7th spot where some of you want him. I'm more optimistic and I think that he's out to prove the naysayers wrong. He has Lee and Aram around him, so he won't feel like he has to carry the team on his shoulders like with the Twins in the last couple of years. Murton has the capability of being a 2 hitter, but has enough pop to be a 6th. Walker is a doubles hitter and drives in runs. Walker typically has a .350 OBP, but he doesn't seem like a patient hitter to me. When he's hot, his OBP will stay up. I remember in the beginning of 2004 that his OBP was over .400 and he did very well, but then in 2004 and 2005, he went through a long drought around May or June. He tends to be aggressive and is a pull hitter, he hits into a lot of ground balls, which can turn into double plays. He's too slow to be an effective 2-hitter. Despite Barrett having one of the best BAs for a catcher, he's great getting tons of meaningless hits with nobody in scoring position. For a good reason he bats 7th or 8th, despite having one of the best BAs for a catcher.

 

I don't think that's a bad lineup. To me, as long as Jones isn't batting 2nd or between Lee and ARAM it's fine.

 

You're right, Jones Ks too much to bat 2nd. I have the bad feeling the Dusty didn't learn the lesson with the Burnitz fiasco.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I really like the idea of Murton hitting second.

 

Name         P    AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Murton       lf  .289  .350  .430 137 470  64 136 16  4 14  56  42  77 10  5 
Walker*      2b  .277  .336  .435 125 451  60 125 26  3 13  57  40  49  1  2 
Cedeno       ss  .287  .332  .412 113 345  46  99 15  2  8  40  20  63 13  4 
Hairston     2b  .273  .350  .378  98 333  44  91 22  2  3  31  31  39  9  9

[CubsFanSince1978]

I would rather see Walker 5th and Jones 7th. I'm not opposed to trying Cedeno 2nd to see how he does.

 

If Jones continues to struggle against lefties and hits around .260-.270, then you're right.

 

Do you think that slow Walker would have a problem getting picked off at 2B when Murton gets those infield hits?

[stitchface]

looking at those numbers, I'm thinking Hairston should be starting against all lefties. In RF.

[stitchface]

I would rather see Walker 5th and Jones 7th. I'm not opposed to trying Cedeno 2nd to see how he does.

 

If Jones continues to struggle against lefties and hits around .260-.270, then you're right.

 

Do you think that slow Walker would have a problem getting picked off at 2B when Murton gets those infield hits?

 

I don't think Walker is that slow. Jones should be on the bench against lefties.

[Mushimus]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This would be my line-up:

 

CF Pierre

2b Walker/Hairson

1b Lee

3b Ramirez

C Barrett

RF Jones

LF Murton

SS Cedeno/Perez

[CubsFanSince1978]

I really like the idea of Murton hitting second.

 

Name         P    AVG   OBP   SLG   G  AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI  BB   K SB CS 
Murton       lf  .289  .350  .430 137 470  64 136 16  4 14  56  42  77 10  5 
Walker*      2b  .277  .336  .435 125 451  60 125 26  3 13  57  40  49  1  2 
Cedeno       ss  .287  .332  .412 113 345  46  99 15  2  8  40  20  63 13  4 
Hairston     2b  .273  .350  .378  98 333  44  91 22  2  3  31  31  39  9  9

 

I don't think those OBP numbers show what Cedeno is capable of. His good eye at the plate and selection showed me that. Too bad he got injured, but he was going to be as impressive as Murton. I think Cedeno can match or even surpass Murton in BA and OBP, except in power. With more pop, Murton is going drive in more runs that Cedeno. That's why I think Murton should bat 6th.

[CubsFanSince1978]

I would rather see Walker 5th and Jones 7th. I'm not opposed to trying Cedeno 2nd to see how he does.

 

If Jones continues to struggle against lefties and hits around .260-.270, then you're right.

 

Do you think that slow Walker would have a problem getting picked off at 2B when Murton gets those infield hits?

 

I don't think Walker is that slow. Jones should be on the bench against lefties.

 

Yes he's very slow. He's the slowest we have, except for Aram. I think he got slower after his injury last year.

[CubsFanSince1978]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window. Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective. Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing. Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls. I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense. How many times did we see him and Neifi hack away on the first pitch to hit a pop up when we had a runner trying to steal second??

[Drew Doughty]

Walker is too "dumb" to hit second?

 

That's new.

[stitchface]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window. Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective. Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing. Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls. I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense. How many times did we see him and Neifi hack away on the first pitch to hit a pop up when we had a runner trying to steal second??

 

you've convinced me - walker should definitely bat 2nd. eliminating smallball will lead to many more runs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window.

 

Hooray.

Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective.

 

Nonononono, you don't need any speedy hitters at all. It's a luxury and you are overrating it's value.

 

Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing.

 

WAY down the list of things you look at when determining batting order.

 

Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls.

 

Thing is, Walker is a superior hitter to Cedeno in every aspect of the game.

 

I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense.

 

Again, we want Walker getting on base and hitting for extra bases, not taking hittable pitches so Pierre can risk an out with his less than amazing stealing prowess, not bunting or grounding out on purpose to advance runners.

[imb]

the 2 hole hitter might bunt what? 15-20 times this year, tops? He's going to be swinging the other 500-600 times. Why do you rate "bunting ability" ahead of "not making an outability"?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window. Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective. Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing. Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls. I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense. How many times did we see him and Neifi hack away on the first pitch to hit a pop up when we had a runner trying to steal second??

 

I'd rather have a number two hitter with the ability to double Pierre home from first than have a hitter that would give up an out to get him to second or third. It's just me, but the outs are important.

 

Furthermore, Walker is usually a patient hitter. If Pierre wanted to steal, Walker's patience would give him time to do so. Cedeno is a much more agressive hitter. Also, I'm not sure Ronny is up to the pressure of hitting in the second spot.

 

And I don't see how anyone can say Walker is a "dumb" player. That's about as baseless of a comment as I've seen.

[CubsFanSince1978]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window. Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective. Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing. Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls. I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense. How many times did we see him and Neifi hack away on the first pitch to hit a pop up when we had a runner trying to steal second??

 

you've convinced me - walker should definitely bat 2nd. eliminating smallball will lead to many more runs.

 

And how do you figure that? Are you kidding? (I can't spot sarcasm if you had any). Our lack of runs scored in the first inning last year was due to NO small ball. We had too many hackers last year, and Walker is one of them. What does small ball do? It advances runners into scoring position for the big boppers and that requires capable and fundamentally sound tablesetters.

 

One thing I agree is that Walker is a better 2-hole option than Neifi or CPatt, but that isn't much to say, is it?

[Fred Hornkohl]

And I don't see how anyone can say Walker is a "dumb" player. That's about as baseless of a comment as I've seen.

 

You Louisana guys sure do stick together, don't you ? :wink:

[USSoccer]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window. Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective. Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing. Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls. I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense. How many times did we see him and Neifi hack away on the first pitch to hit a pop up when we had a runner trying to steal second??

 

you've convinced me - walker should definitely bat 2nd. eliminating smallball will lead to many more runs.

 

And how do you figure that? Are you kidding? (I can't spot sarcasm if you had any). Our lack of runs scored in the first inning last year was due to NO small ball. We had too many hackers last year, and Walker is one of them. What does small ball do? It advances runners into scoring position for the big boppers and that requires capable and fundamentally sound tablesetters.

One thing I agree is that Walker is a better 2-hole option than Neifi or CPatt, but that isn't much to say, is it?

 

Small ball is a myth. If you get 27 outs in a game, why waste them?

 

If there is a specific situation where the Cubs need to advance a runner, bunting ability is important, but that's not a way to formulate an offensive strategy.

 

The Cubs should value not making outs over making them.

 

And our lack of 1st inning runs was due to the fact that Lee would usually bat with 2 out, and no one on base, because our 1-2 hitters...made too many outs.

Edited January 30, 2006 by USSoccer

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

And how do you figure that? Are you kidding? (I can't spot sarcasm if you had any). Our lack of runs scored in the first inning last year was due to NO small ball. We had too many hackers last year, and Walker is one of them. What does small ball do? It advances runners into scoring position for the big boppers and that requires capable and fundamentally sound tablesetters.

 

One thing I agree is that Walker is a better 2-hole option than Neifi or CPatt, but that isn't much to say, is it?

 

That's just wrong. Our lack of runs scored was because we had a lack of men on base when the middle of the order guys came up.

 

04/04 - 10/02      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
batting 1st       690   83  168   33    2   13  244   55   44   96  0.243  0.297  0.354  0.650
batting 2nd       679   90  187   31    5   18  282   63   35   80  0.275  0.315  0.415  0.730

Totals           1369  173  355   64    7   31  526  118   79  176  0.259  0.306  0.384  0.690

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And I don't see how anyone can say Walker is a "dumb" player. That's about as baseless of a comment as I've seen.

 

You Louisana guys sure do stick together, don't you ? :wink:

 

Louisiana or not, there's not one scintila of evidence to back up such a ludicrous statement.

[CubsFanSince1978]

I think Dusty will go with

 

Pierre

Walker

Lee

Ramirez

Jones

Murton

Barrett

Cedeno

 

And that would be a bummer because with Walker batting second, the notion of small ball goes out the window. Having just one speedy leadoff hitter is not enough. Pierre needs a fast 2-hitter behind him to be more effective. Furthermore, I don't think Walker lays as good a bunt as Cedeno. Walker will square off to bunt, Cedeno doesn't. That keeps the other team guessing. Cedeno can hit to both sides, Walker is a dead pull hitter. When Walker struggles (and he struggles for a long time), he hits too many ground balls. I just see a lot of wasted SB opportunities with Pierre because Walker does not know how to play small ball. He's too dumb and makes too many mental mistakes. My issues with Walker don't end with just his lack of fundamentals, but his less than impressive defense. How many times did we see him and Neifi hack away on the first pitch to hit a pop up when we had a runner trying to steal second??

 

I'd rather have a number two hitter with the ability to double Pierre home from first than have a hitter that would give up an out to get him to second or third. It's just me, but the outs are important.

 

Furthermore, Walker is usually a patient hitter. If Pierre wanted to steal, Walker's patience would give him time to do so. Cedeno is a much more agressive hitter. Also, I'm not sure Ronny is up to the pressure of hitting in the second spot.

 

And I don't see how anyone can say Walker is a "dumb" player. That's about as baseless of a comment as I've seen.

 

It's the other way around IMO. I think Walker can be either or (patient and sometimes aggressive). I don't know how you think Cedeno is more aggressive. One thing is for sure, he doesn' swing at pitches out of the zone much. He's way more selective than any other Cub I've seen in recent years. Murton is almost as selective as he is.

 

Like I said before, good AND fast 2-hitters like Luis Castillo don't hit a whole lot of doubles or homeruns, but they act as secondary leadoff hitters that put pressure on opposing pitcher on the basepaths. I'd rather have that than an all or nothing doubles hitter (good), first pitch pop up hitter (bad), slow ground ball double play hitter (very bad).

 

I guess you don't remember the amount of mental mistakes Walker made on baserunning, throwing to home when he should have thrown to first to get the sure out....I mean, I don't know how a player like that doesn't get called dumb. Walker is not a fundamentally sound player, and that is a fact.

[Fred Hornkohl]

And I don't see how anyone can say Walker is a "dumb" player. That's about as baseless of a comment as I've seen.

 

You Louisana guys sure do stick together, don't you ? :wink:

 

Louisiana or not, there's not one scintila of evidence to back up such a ludicrous statement.

 

[sigh] There you go again. Letting the facts get in the way of a good argument. :wink: