Why does everyone hate Neifi Perez?

[goonys evil twin]

The fact that he is limited offensively and his manager uses him in a backwards manner is not a reason to hate him.

 

Has anyone in this thread said that they hate Neifie?

 

People have siad they hate the way Neifie has been employed by the managment of the Cubs. That is all most people ever say.

 

Come down off the box.

 

People on this bd. have stated that they hate several Cubs; Neifi, Dusty, and Hendry included. I can't do a search, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

In any case, it wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, so take it easy.

 

EDIT:

 

FYI, here is one prominent member's signature line:

 

Creator of the "I Hate Jim Hendry" BandWGN

 

What the heck does that have to do with what that person said? He clearly stated people hate management's use. You didn't prove anything here regarding whether people hate Neifi personally.

 

Obviously when people are complaining about a player and the team's use of the player, they don't typically mean they hate the player personally, because they don't know him. The only players I've known people to talk about personal hatred for are guys like Sosa, Patterson, Hundley, Farnsworth and possibly Walker. People attack those guys on a personal basis. The attacks on Neifi are strictly professional related. He fails to do the job but the Cubs keep giving him the chance to fail, and people hate that. They aren't questioning his motives, effort, personal life or anything else, just how much he sucks and how much the Cubs let him suck.

[RynoRules]

The fact that he is limited offensively and his manager uses him in a backwards manner is not a reason to hate him.

 

Has anyone in this thread said that they hate Neifie?

 

People have siad they hate the way Neifie has been employed by the managment of the Cubs. That is all most people ever say.

 

Come down off the box.

 

People on this bd. have stated that they hate several Cubs; Neifi, Dusty, and Hendry included. I can't do a search, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

In any case, it wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, so take it easy.

 

EDIT:

 

FYI, here is one prominent member's signature line:

 

Creator of the "I Hate Jim Hendry" BandWGN

 

What the heck does that have to do with what that person said? He clearly stated people hate management's use. You didn't prove anything here regarding whether people hate Neifi personally.

 

Obviously when people are complaining about a player and the team's use of the player, they don't typically mean they hate the player personally, because they don't know him. The only players I've known people to talk about personal hatred for are guys like Sosa, Patterson, Hundley, Farnsworth and possibly Walker. People attack those guys on a personal basis. The attacks on Neifi are strictly professional related. He fails to do the job but the Cubs keep giving him the chance to fail, and people hate that. They aren't questioning his motives, effort, personal life or anything else, just how much he sucks and how much the Cubs let him suck.

 

The point was that he/she made a sweeping comment that no one on this bd. says that they "hate" the player / manager / front-office guy. That's not the case. Saying you "hate" someone is dfifferent than saing "he stinks".

 

And I have no problem with people saying that JH stinks as a GM or Neifi is junk ball player, etc.

[goonys evil twin]

The point was that he/she made a sweeping comment that no one on this bd. says that they "hate" the player / manager / front-office guy. That's not the case. Saying you "hate" someone is dfifferent than saing "he stinks".

 

And I have no problem with people saying that JH stinks as a GM or Neifi is junk ball player, etc.

 

He didn't say that at all. He said "Has anyone in this thread said that they hate Neifie?

 

People have siad they hate the way Neifie has been employed by the managment of the Cubs. That is all most people ever say.

 

Come down off the box. "

 

There was no sweeping comment about anybody using the word hate.

 

Regardless, quit being so sensitive. When people say they hate X, they are saying they think X is a big reason why the Cubs aren't winning, and I hate that the Cubs aren't winning. Do you really need everybody to be crystal clear in pointing out exactly what they are pissed off everytime they write? My lord, people use such throwaway lines all the time. All they are talking about is that they want the freaking Cubs to win, and there are a lot of things making it difficult to win.

[RynoRules]

The point was that he/she made a sweeping comment that no one on this bd. says that they "hate" the player / manager / front-office guy. That's not the case. Saying you "hate" someone is dfifferent than saing "he stinks".

 

And I have no problem with people saying that JH stinks as a GM or Neifi is junk ball player, etc.

 

He didn't say that at all. He said "Has anyone in this thread said that they hate Neifie?

 

People have siad they hate the way Neifie has been employed by the managment of the Cubs. That is all most people ever say.

 

Come down off the box. "

 

There was no sweeping comment about anybody using the word hate.

 

Regardless, quit being so sensitive. When people say they hate X, they are saying they think X is a big reason why the Cubs aren't winning, and I hate that the Cubs aren't winning. Do you really need everybody to be crystal clear in pointing out exactly what they are pissed off everytime they write? My lord, people use such throwaway lines all the time. All they are talking about is that they want the freaking Cubs to win, and there are a lot of things making it difficult to win.

 

The only person getting upset or sensitive appears to be you. IMO, its inapprorpriate to say that you hate these guys, be it a "throw away" line, a misguided reference, or whatever other semantic you wish to use to describe it. That's my opinion. You attacked it, I defended it, you still disagree. That's fine. End of story.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How can you hate or even dislike the man who hit that granny against the Cards??? Or how 'bout that HR that put us in the playoffs in 98???

 

That said, I don't believe that any team with a strong desire to win a WS championship can do so with players of his caliber. Neifi is not a good 25th man at his price. The only thing he really brings to the table is solid (not terrific) defense. Other (better) options were out there.

[JC]

 

Regardless, quit being so sensitive. When people say they hate X, they are saying they think X is a big reason why the Cubs aren't winning, and I hate that the Cubs aren't winning. Do you really need everybody to be crystal clear in pointing out exactly what they are pissed off everytime they write? My lord, people use such throwaway lines all the time. All they are talking about is that they want the freaking Cubs to win, and there are a lot of things making it difficult to win.

 

I couldn't agree more. I don't understand why such basic principles of interpretation are ignored (or, at least, are accidentally forgotten) on this board from time to time.

[Scott G. F.]

Best Neifi! moment: Winning Granny vs. St. Louis. Who would have thunk that?

[Chris]

*points to the sig*

[Coach C]

Best Neifi! moment: Winning Granny vs. St. Louis. Who would have thunk that?

 

Oh man, that was something. I think NSBB just nearly imploded with that.

 

I was just in disbelief.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Neifi was the only Cub not to sign my team baseball in 2005. That's all the reason I need.

[Chocolate Milk]

Best Neifi! moment: Winning Granny vs. St. Louis. Who would have thunk that?

 

Oh man, that was something. I think NSBB just nearly imploded with that.

 

I was just in disbelief.

 

I was about to bring that up! I was thinking, "Hahaha! The Cards just got served by Neifi fricken Perez!!!"

[USSoccer]

Neifi was the only Cub not to sign my team baseball in 2005. That's all the reason I need.

 

It's cause his brother knows you and most of the rest of us don't like him, and told him so.

[Scott G. F.]

Best Neifi! moment: Winning Granny vs. St. Louis. Who would have thunk that?

 

Oh man, that was something. I think NSBB just nearly imploded with that.

 

I was just in disbelief.

 

I was about to bring that up! I was thinking, "Hahaha! The Cards just got served by Neifi fricken Perez!!!"

 

The announcers didn't believe it either. I believe Joe Morgan was silent moments after that.

 

Neifi! played a solid first half last year (look back at the Neifi! for the All Star Game Threads) but fell off.

[CubDad4Ever]

This thread is near and dear to my heart , because of what it represents. The generalizing of 1 facet of the game (obp) throught a narrow interpretation of the book moneyball (by the way mike lewis wrote it ,not bill james) I have read almost everything bill james has written and he would fundementally disagree with alot said on this board . He stopped writing abstracts because he feared what i see on this board alot . Taking one stat and running with it to the exculsion of total evaluation of a player in the context of his situation. It is convienent and easy to blame dusty and nefi , hiding behind on base percents shield. In reality many winning teams had weak hitting defensive shortstops . Today we look at the astros and angels and white sox , all who employed low obp shortsops. James always points out how critical and undervalued defense is at this positon . Giving huge props to Mazeroski and others like him who have been defensive stalwarts while not very strong on the offensive end. Now that being said I understand the following. Moneyball was a heroic epic for people who love to analyze the game thorough stats. I am a football coach who has always looked to find hidden value on offense and in players. Stats help . But you have to look at more than one thing to gain value. Speed does have value , defense has tremendous value, being a good clubhouse guy , baserunner, intelligent player all have value. Nefi got put in a crappy spot in the order on a flawed team. Dusty Baker is not a chump , he talks huge mess to keep people off his players . He is not perfect but definilty a solid manger. In a perfect world , you have A Rod at short or Jeter. But the people that wanted Normar out there are thinking with a very narrow view. There is a reason he wat not wanted by anybody in baseall to play short . He is a defensive liabilty and he is brittle. The same rational scares me about Todd Walker. Sorry for the long winded pontification. but i think we all can use the collective brains on this board to analyze more completly and fairly. It will make for better reading and less constant whining about the same subjects. God Bless you all and i hope the cubs have a great year. Coach L.

[Mizzou]

I don't hate Neifi at all, I just despise Dusty's use of him. Neifi is a good player to have on our team... if used properly.

[CubinNY]

. Taking one stat and running with it to the exculsion of total evaluation of a player in the context of his situation. It is convienent and easy to blame dusty and nefi , hiding behind on base percents shield. In reality many winning teams had weak hitting defensive shortstops.

 

There are plenty of Neifie is a crappy player shields to hide behind. OBP is but one. How about batting average, walks, hit into DPs, SLG, or VORP. Those are only a sample of other shields. In fact I could make a fortress of crappy stats to hide behind when it comes to Perez.

 

Many teams that won have had crappy short stops. That does not mean that it is a formula on which to rely or even a good idea.

 

Bottom line, Neifie is one of the worst offensive short stops to play on a regular basis in the past 20 years.

[CubDad4Ever]

No one is arguing offensive metrics my friend. However He had to play, We had a hurt defensive has been at short . There is a reason one of the best offensive shortstops in the past 20 years got sent packing from Boston. Nefi is weak offensively but not the reason the cubs did not win. Again i would love to have a ss who brings it on both ends. Hopefully Cedeno can be that man. Starting Pitching health and production can and needs to lead the way. I am well aware our offensive def. is walking more. God Bless Coach L.

[Scott G. F.]

If Cedano comes out smokin then this thread would have been useless. That is until Cedano get rolled by Travis Lee and Neifi! has to cover. has anyone see this scenario before?

[RynoRules]

I don't hate Neifi at all, I just despise Dusty's use of him. Neifi is a good player to have on our team... if used properly.

 

agreed.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'm probably wrong, but it may have something to do with the onset of fantasy baseball, the Bill James book Moneyball and the frustration of the Cubs failing to win a World Series during our lifetimes.

 

nonsense, everyone knows billy beane wrote moneyball.

[TB_11]

I hate how much value Hendry places on him and how much of the payroll is dedicated to him.

 

 

 

He should not have a two year contract. He should not have a guaranteed contract, or come close to making $2.5m.

 

Good point. Assuming he was paid in-line with his production, he's a 25th man. But at $5M for two years, he should be on a different team.

[Magnetic Curses]

Speed does have value , defense has tremendous value, being a good clubhouse guy , baserunner, intelligent player all have value.

 

none have as much value as OBP.

 

as wastra and poudre mouse have made very clear:

 

not making outs is the single most important facet of the game in regards to scoring runs.

 

the stat that measures OUTS NOT MADE is OBP.

 

this cubs team was below average last year when it came to not making outs. consequently is was terrible at scoring runs.

 

this cubs team was not bad defensively, nor was it poor in regards to team speed, and it was very above average in BA.

 

one of the big reasons this cub team was not successful was because it couldn't score. another reason was it's injuries to starting pitchers, but even this could have been overcome with better plate discipline.

 

maybe other teams DON'T need to work on their plate discipline, and maybe it's NOT important to upgrade for teams that have it. however, for this team, there was no bigger hole than OBP, there was no more important place to upgrade.

 

the reason everyone talks about getting more OBP on this board is because the CUBS DON'T HAVE IT. i don't care if bill james is sitting in your living room right now, he'd take one look at this cubs team and say: "they suck at not making outs".

[USSoccer]

I hate how much value Hendry places on him and how much of the payroll is dedicated to him.

 

 

 

He should not have a two year contract. He should not have a guaranteed contract, or come close to making $2.5m.

 

Good point. Assuming he was paid in-line with his production, he's a 25th man. But at $5M for two years, he should be on a different team.

 

not even the Yankees pay their 25th man what Neifi makes. That tells you something about how Neifi is overvalued.

[Andy]

I don't hate Neifi.

 

I hate Neifi's sub-.300 OBP batting in front of Derrek. I hate Neifi's two-year, 6M deal including signing bonus. I hate that he's no doubt going to be Dusty's new Macias in terms of bench usage. I hate that his defense was apparently enough to keep him over Nomar who we could've had for probably 2M more a year max. I hate that he's a terrible hitter.

 

But no, I don't hate Neifi.

[series65cubsfan]

This thread is near and dear to my heart , because of what it represents. The generalizing of 1 facet of the game (obp) throught a narrow interpretation of the book moneyball (by the way mike lewis wrote it ,not bill james) I have read almost everything bill james has written and he would fundementally disagree with alot said on this board . He stopped writing abstracts because he feared what i see on this board alot . Taking one stat and running with it to the exculsion of total evaluation of a player in the context of his situation. It is convienent and easy to blame dusty and nefi , hiding behind on base percents shield. In reality many winning teams had weak hitting defensive shortstops . Today we look at the astros and angels and white sox , all who employed low obp shortsops. James always points out how critical and undervalued defense is at this positon . Giving huge props to Mazeroski and others like him who have been defensive stalwarts while not very strong on the offensive end. Now that being said I understand the following. Moneyball was a heroic epic for people who love to analyze the game thorough stats. I am a football coach who has always looked to find hidden value on offense and in players. Stats help . But you have to look at more than one thing to gain value. Speed does have value , defense has tremendous value, being a good clubhouse guy , baserunner, intelligent player all have value. Nefi got put in a crappy spot in the order on a flawed team. Dusty Baker is not a chump , he talks huge mess to keep people off his players . He is not perfect but definilty a solid manger. In a perfect world , you have A Rod at short or Jeter. But the people that wanted Normar out there are thinking with a very narrow view. There is a reason he wat not wanted by anybody in baseall to play short . He is a defensive liabilty and he is brittle. The same rational scares me about Todd Walker. Sorry for the long winded pontification. but i think we all can use the collective brains on this board to analyze more completly and fairly. It will make for better reading and less constant whining about the same subjects. God Bless you all and i hope the cubs have a great year. Coach L.

 

Thank you CubDad4Ever, I really enjoyed your post. While I understand the significance of OBP, however, many times I do think it gets taken to be, the end all and be all.