Julio Lugo trade talk

[goonys evil twin]

Oh, this ought to be good. We'll be interested to hear these stories.

 

Not my style to get into all that, but there sure are some good ones....

 

If it's not your style to tell, you probably shouldn't even mention the supposed stories that you do have. It's like a guy talking about how much tail he gets, then pretending to take the high road by not saying who it was.

 

I find it interesting that no one has really discussed what counts most, situational hitting. Most notably BA with RISP, OBP with RISP, BA with RISP/2 OUTS, and OBP with RISP/2 OUTS.......

 

That has been discussed plenty. And really it doesn't "matter most".

 

Situational hitting is not a predicatable number. Guys can go from years where they end up great in certain situations and terrible in the same situation the next year. Over time it tends to even out. Those numbers tell us nothing about who the Cubs should go after. A guy could easily go out and repeated his season stats but completely reverse his splits in those situations. You should never make personel decisions based on situational stats, it will burn you.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Would you consider Lugo a "clutch" hitter? Oh, no I didn't just go there!? :lol:

[ThePenguin11]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but don't the Cubs have an obligation to spend or trade for approximately $10,000,000 since the Furcal signing was a bust? That was budgeted for wasn't it?

[goonys evil twin]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but don't the Cubs have an obligation to spend or trade for approximately $10,000,000 since the Furcal signing was a bust? That was budgeted for wasn't it?

 

They spent over $5m on Jones, and will spend a good chunk of Pierre. They could also use some of that money on extensions for guys like Zambrano, Prior or Lee. Even though they said they would have gone for Pierre and Furcal, we really don't know that for sure. And you can't really talk about Furcal money and the need to spend it elsewhere. At the end of the day we should just expect them to spend a little more on players this year than they did last year, when it was about $100m.

[ThePenguin11]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but don't the Cubs have an obligation to spend or trade for approximately $10,000,000 since the Furcal signing was a bust? That was budgeted for wasn't it?

 

They spent over $5m on Jones, and will spend a good chunk of Pierre. They could also use some of that money on extensions for guys like Zambrano, Prior or Lee. Even though they said they would have gone for Pierre and Furcal, we really don't know that for sure. And you can't really talk about Furcal money and the need to spend it elsewhere. At the end of the day we should just expect them to spend a little more on players this year than they did last year, when it was about $100m.

 

That's pretty much what I figured. Definitely how they would explain it anyway. We all know they could afford to absorb Manny's contract if Boston would take the right deal. Of course Tribune would have to change their philosophy to one that focused on winning a world series...

[SonnyD]

If it's not your style to tell, you probably shouldn't even mention the supposed stories that you do have. It's like a guy talking about how much tail he gets, then pretending to take the high road by not saying who it was.

 

I've got a better one for you. Guys that want to sit here and read gossip stories are like women. The only reason I brought that up was to make a point (seeing things first hand) that Lugo is NOT the ONLY one with these character issues. I by no means wanted to turn this into an AOL gossip/story chatline......

 

That has been discussed plenty. And really it doesn't "matter most".

 

Situational hitting is not a predicatable number. Guys can go from years where they end up great in certain situations and terrible in the same situation the next year. Over time it tends to even out. Those numbers tell us nothing about who the Cubs should go after. A guy could easily go out and repeated his season stats but completely reverse his splits in those situations. You should never make personel decisions based on situational stats, it will burn you.

 

First of all, your are DEAD wrong when you say players are not predictable in situational hitting. Ever hear of the phrase "Clutch Hitter??" Some players are born for those types of situations. I am not saying Lugo is a "clutch hitter", simply laying the stats out for everyone to see and decide.

 

Regardless, nobody said that was ALL that was being analyzed. We are bringing in situational hitting to compliment what we already know about Lugo (last year's stats as well as his career stats).

 

But if it makes you feel better, then let's look at Lugo's stat line from last year: .295avg/.362obp/182 hits/39 steals/36 doubles/6 triples. Compare those numbers to the rest of the league, and justify for me why you wouldn't want this guy to be your starting 2nd/SS?????

[goonys evil twin]

If it's not your style to tell, you probably shouldn't even mention the supposed stories that you do have. It's like a guy talking about how much tail he gets, then pretending to take the high road by not saying who it was.

 

I've got a better one for you. Guys that want to sit here and read gossip stories are like women. The only reason I brought that up was to make a point (seeing things first hand) that Lugo is NOT the ONLY one with these character issues. I by no means wanted to turn this into an AOL gossip/story chatline......

 

Well I don't want to hear the stories regardless. But if you say you got stories, you better expect people to ask what they are.

 

That has been discussed plenty. And really it doesn't "matter most".

 

Situational hitting is not a predicatable number. Guys can go from years where they end up great in certain situations and terrible in the same situation the next year. Over time it tends to even out. Those numbers tell us nothing about who the Cubs should go after. A guy could easily go out and repeated his season stats but completely reverse his splits in those situations. You should never make personel decisions based on situational stats, it will burn you.

 

First of all, your are DEAD wrong when you say players are not predictable in situational hitting. Ever hear of the phrase "Clutch Hitter??" Some players are born for those types of situations.

 

Regardless, nobody said that was ALL that was being analyzed. We are bringing in situational hitting to compliment what we already know about Lugo (last year's stats as well as his career stats).

 

But if it makes you feel better, then let's look at Lugo's stat line from last year: .295avg/.362obp/182 hits/39 steals/36 doubles/6 triples. Compare those numbers to the rest of the league, and justify for me why you wouldn't want this guy to be your starting 2nd/SS?????

 

Yeah I've heard of clutch hitter, and it's a myth. I'm not dead wrong, players aren't predictable. If they were, they'd repeat those "clutch" stats year after year, but they don't.

 

I'd have no problem with Lugo as my shortstop. But it has nothing to do with the myth of clutchiness.

Edited January 13, 2006 by goony's evil twin

[Ding Dong Johnson]

First of all, your are DEAD wrong when you say players are not predictable in situational hitting. Ever hear of the phrase "Clutch Hitter??" Some players are born for those types of situations. I am not saying Lugo is a "clutch hitter", simply laying the stats out for everyone to see and decide.

 

Anyone have a link to the clutch debate? SonnyD is new here.

[Laura]

First of all, your are DEAD wrong when you say players are not predictable in situational hitting. Ever hear of the phrase "Clutch Hitter??" Some players are born for those types of situations. I am not saying Lugo is a "clutch hitter", simply laying the stats out for everyone to see and decide.

 

Anyone have a link to the clutch debate? SonnyD is new here.

 

Please take further general (non-Lugo) clutch / situational discussion to this thread. Thanks.

[goonys evil twin]

[Clutch discussion quotes moved to the Clutch or Not thread].

 

 

 

If Hendry can trade for Lugo without giving up much, it'll be a clutch trade. And if Dusty can find a way to start Cedeno and Lugo, leaving Neifi ono the bench but for a handful of at bats this year, it'll be clutch strategy on his part.

[Blueheart05]

If it's not your style to tell, you probably shouldn't even mention the supposed stories that you do have. It's like a guy talking about how much tail he gets, then pretending to take the high road by not saying who it was.

 

I've got a better one for you. Guys that want to sit here and read gossip stories are like women. The only reason I brought that up was to make a point (seeing things first hand) that Lugo is NOT the ONLY one with these character issues. I by no means wanted to turn this into an AOL gossip/story chatline......

 

 

I've got one better for you, some of us here are actually women and we still don't want to read your gossip.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I've got one better for you, some of us here are actually women and we still don't want to hear your gossip.

 

I was waiting for you to chime in on that one. :D

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

First of all, your are DEAD wrong when you say players are not predictable in situational hitting. Ever hear of the phrase "Clutch Hitter??" Some players are born for those types of situations. I am not saying Lugo is a "clutch hitter", simply laying the stats out for everyone to see and decide.

 

I've heard of clutch hitting, just like I've heard ghost stories. I just don't think there's any proof that either exist.

Edited January 13, 2006 by vance_the_cubs_fan

[RockTheIvy]

[Clutch discussion quotes moved to the Clutch or Not thread].

 

 

 

If Hendry can trade for Lugo without giving up much, it'll be a clutch trade. And if Dusty can find a way to start Cedeno and Lugo, leaving Neifi ono the bench but for a handful of at bats this year, it'll be clutch strategy on his part.

 

I've even seen a Yugo that has a clutch. No not Lugo, Yugo. It's reaaaaally clutch.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

[Clutch discussion quotes moved to the Clutch or Not thread].

 

 

 

If Hendry can trade for Lugo without giving up much, it'll be a clutch trade. And if Dusty can find a way to start Cedeno and Lugo, leaving Neifi ono the bench but for a handful of at bats this year, it'll be clutch strategy on his part.

 

I've even seen a Yugo that has a clutch. No not Lugo, Yugo. It's reaaaaally clutch.

 

Thanks, you just reminded me of that stupid Ford commercial from a year ago or so:

 

Saleslady: It comes with an automatic at no additional charge.

Customer: That's clutch

Saleslady: No, an automatic

Customer: Yeah, that's clutch

 

All downhill from there...

[RockTheIvy]

Dude, the women are always telling me I remind them of an annoying Ford commercial. It all makes so much sense now.

[HoopsCubs]

I had ESPN AM 1000 on this morning driving into the office and during lunch. I didn't hear any mention of a Lugo rumor. Has it died down already, or been refuted, or is it possible the rumor was generated on a National ESPN radio overnight show like GameNight?

[The Voice of Reason]

Blueheart05 wrote

 

If it's not your style to tell, you probably shouldn't even mention the supposed stories that you do have. It's like a guy talking about how much tail he gets, then pretending to take the high road by not saying who it was.

 

I've got a better one for you. Guys that want to sit here and read gossip stories are like women. The only reason I brought that up was to make a point (seeing things first hand) that Lugo is NOT the ONLY one with these character issues. I by no means wanted to turn this into an AOL gossip/story chatline......

 

I've got one better for you, some of us here are actually women and we still don't want to read your gossip.

 

For those that do, I have a friend that uses that following site. Note the important information on Mr. Eyeshadow himself.

 

http://itsasecretsohush.blogspot.com/2005/11/not-so-blind-items-part-vi.html

[CP_414]

Some players may be moving soon, including second baseman Todd Walker, while Tampa Bay shortstop Julio Lugo reportedly is a trade target of Hendry. But Baker insisted Walker is still his starter and possible No. 2 hitter.

 

While the Devils Rays want a starting shortstop in return for Lugo, the Cubs don't plan on trading Ronny Cedeno, who is slated to start at either short or second base.

 

Baker said Lugo could play either second or short if the Cubs acquired him. For now, Baker remains undecided about who will hit second, fifth and eighth, repeating the Cubs' mantra that they may not be done dealing.

 

"There's still some time," he said. "We didn't get [Greg] Maddux [in 2004] until a day before spring training, I hope we don't wait that late."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060113cubs,1,318638.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

This is from Paul Sullivan's latest. Should Baker be talking about where he would play Julio Lugo, who plays for another team? Does this mean there is something to these rumors, or does it just mean that Baker has no tact?

 

Also in that article Prior is quoted saying he is planning on talking with Jom Hendry about the trade rumors. Shouldn't Hendry be the one seeking out Prior to talk to him? This organization really is a mess from the top down.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'm hoping Hendry finds no takers for Walker and that he's our number two hitter.

[RockTheIvy]

You really gotta like Prior's comments there. I hope he's on the Cubs forever.

[Mark_R]

[Clutch discussion quotes moved to the Clutch or Not thread].

 

Why is the link to the clutch thread taking me to the member guidelines in FAQ's?

[stitchface]

 

First of all, your are DEAD wrong when you say players are not predictable in situational hitting. Ever hear of the phrase "Clutch Hitter??" Some players are born for those types of situations. I am not saying Lugo is a "clutch hitter", simply laying the stats out for everyone to see and decide.

 

I've heard of clutch hitting, just like I've heard ghost stories. I just don't think there's any proof that either exist.

 

of course clutch hitting exists. what doesn't exist is players that are consistently better at it than others.

[stitchface]

Some players may be moving soon, including second baseman Todd Walker, while Tampa Bay shortstop Julio Lugo reportedly is a trade target of Hendry. But Baker insisted Walker is still his starter and possible No. 2 hitter.

 

While the Devils Rays want a starting shortstop in return for Lugo, the Cubs don't plan on trading Ronny Cedeno, who is slated to start at either short or second base.

 

Baker said Lugo could play either second or short if the Cubs acquired him. For now, Baker remains undecided about who will hit second, fifth and eighth, repeating the Cubs' mantra that they may not be done dealing.

 

"There's still some time," he said. "We didn't get [Greg] Maddux [in 2004] until a day before spring training, I hope we don't wait that late."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060113cubs,1,318638.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

This is from Paul Sullivan's latest. Should Baker be talking about where he would play Julio Lugo, who plays for another team? Does this mean there is something to these rumors, or does it just mean that Baker has no tact?

 

Also in that article Prior is quoted saying he is planning on talking with Jom Hendry about the trade rumors. Shouldn't Hendry be the one seeking out Prior to talk to him? This organization really is a mess from the top down.

 

 

its obviously a non-issue with prior. what do you expect baker to say when someone asks him about lugo?

[CP_414]

Some players may be moving soon, including second baseman Todd Walker, while Tampa Bay shortstop Julio Lugo reportedly is a trade target of Hendry. But Baker insisted Walker is still his starter and possible No. 2 hitter.

 

While the Devils Rays want a starting shortstop in return for Lugo, the Cubs don't plan on trading Ronny Cedeno, who is slated to start at either short or second base.

 

Baker said Lugo could play either second or short if the Cubs acquired him. For now, Baker remains undecided about who will hit second, fifth and eighth, repeating the Cubs' mantra that they may not be done dealing.

 

"There's still some time," he said. "We didn't get [Greg] Maddux [in 2004] until a day before spring training, I hope we don't wait that late."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060113cubs,1,318638.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

This is from Paul Sullivan's latest. Should Baker be talking about where he would play Julio Lugo, who plays for another team? Does this mean there is something to these rumors, or does it just mean that Baker has no tact?

 

Also in that article Prior is quoted saying he is planning on talking with Jom Hendry about the trade rumors. Shouldn't Hendry be the one seeking out Prior to talk to him? This organization really is a mess from the top down.

 

 

its obviously a non-issue with prior. what do you expect baker to say when someone asks him about lugo?

 

I expect him to say "Julio Lugo is not on this team. I don't think it would be right for me to speculate on where I would play a player who is with another organization. I would be glad to answer any questions about our midddle infield which consists of Ronny Cedeno, Todd Walker, Jerry Hairston, and Neifi Perez."