Rogers rips Cubs on Patterson's demise

[BigbadB]

He was never going to do anything here, and whether that's his fault or the organization's fault, it doesn't really matter. And Rogers is still stoooopid.

The most similar situation I can think of to Corey's in recent times is Pat Burrell in 2003. He was a former blue-chip prospect who had had some success in the bigs, but had a simply dreadful year, looked awful doing it and the fans booed him mercilessly (it is Philly, afterall). At that time, Philly could have dumped him for next to nothing (his contract was much worse than Corey's) and used all the same excuses that the Cubs just have used. Time to move on, change of scenery, trying to compete this year, blah, blah, blah. Pat the Bat has come back pretty well and I think Philly is pretty happy they showed the patience in him at this point.

 

I just don't understand why people insist that it is absolutely impossible that Corey could ever come back and do well in Chicago. It is impossible to know.

 

Agreed. Very good comparison. I'm tossed on whether Corey should have been retained or moved. Honestly, a trade was probably in his best interest, and probably the Cubs too. If the Cubs went a different direction this offseason, I think they could have stuck Corey out there for 1 more year while Pie continues his development. For example, if the Cubs signed Giles, Lofton and brought back Nomar, Corey in CF wouldn't have been too counterproductive. Lofton would have been insurance or possibly pushed Corey into a reserve role. The problem is that Corey would have likely struggled even more with inconsistent play.

 

I wish him well. I hope he figures things out in Baltimore. It will be interesting to see if another organization can turn him around.

[StMarksCubs]

There's enough blame to go around.

 

I don't disagree with Rogers. I just supplement what he said with the fact that Corey also is to blame.

 

Now that CPatt is a newcomer with Baltimore, I'll bet he makes more of an effort to improve. He can no longer fall back on the "I'm a veteran with this ballclub" excuse, either with his coaches or in his own mind. He's low man on the totem-pole now.

 

You're sounding a lot like a Lakers fan before this season started... and by that I mean, Corey Patterson is Kwame Brown. And we (the Cubbies) got out while the gettin' was good!

[Gunned]

He was never going to do anything here, and whether that's his fault or the organization's fault, it doesn't really matter. And Rogers is still stoooopid.

The most similar situation I can think of to Corey's in recent times is Pat Burrell in 2003. He was a former blue-chip prospect who had had some success in the bigs, but had a simply dreadful year, looked awful doing it and the fans booed him mercilessly (it is Philly, afterall). At that time, Philly could have dumped him for next to nothing (his contract was much worse than Corey's) and used all the same excuses that the Cubs just have used. Time to move on, change of scenery, trying to compete this year, blah, blah, blah. Pat the Bat has come back pretty well and I think Philly is pretty happy they showed the patience in him at this point.

 

I just don't understand why people insist that it is absolutely impossible that Corey could ever come back and do well in Chicago. It is impossible to know.

 

Burrell had a lot more success than Corey before his one truly awful year, including a 37 homer, .920 OPS season. And he had several solid years before that. Patterson has played about four months of good baseball in the major leagues.

 

And even Burrell's bad season (209/309/404) wasn't nearly as bad as what Patterson did in 2005.

[Soul]

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization, because we'll never know what he could have been with proper progression.

 

Sorry, when the kid hit .261 at AA and was fast becoming the human strikeout machine, he should have had to repeat AA the next season, maybe with a promotion to AAA later on if he figured things out. But you damn well bet in 2001 he should have stayed in the minors. 2002? You would have thought the team would have seen his .284 on base percentage as something he should work out in the minors.

 

But instead of working out his problems in small towns riding a bus to games (aka, being humbled), he was supposed to work those out in the bright lights of the big city. Sorry, but just about any 22 year old rushed from the minors and brought to the Chi is going to flop.

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him, but what is he supposed to do? Every year from 2000 keep repeating "i'm not ready, please demote me"?

 

ALL of the blame? I think Corey was handled improperly, but it's become pretty clear that while Corey is a talented athlete, he's not a talented baseball player.

 

I also must admit I was confused by Wheel's post:

 

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him

 

So which is it?

[RockTheIvy]

Right, Gunned. He still managed an OPS over .700 that year. Corey really really regressed.

[Wheelimus]

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization, because we'll never know what he could have been with proper progression.

 

Sorry, when the kid hit .261 at AA and was fast becoming the human strikeout machine, he should have had to repeat AA the next season, maybe with a promotion to AAA later on if he figured things out. But you damn well bet in 2001 he should have stayed in the minors. 2002? You would have thought the team would have seen his .284 on base percentage as something he should work out in the minors.

 

But instead of working out his problems in small towns riding a bus to games (aka, being humbled), he was supposed to work those out in the bright lights of the big city. Sorry, but just about any 22 year old rushed from the minors and brought to the Chi is going to flop.

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him, but what is he supposed to do? Every year from 2000 keep repeating "i'm not ready, please demote me"?

 

ALL of the blame? I think Corey was handled improperly, but it's become pretty clear that while Corey is a talented athlete, he's not a talented baseball player.

 

I also must admit I was confused by Wheel's post:

 

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him

 

So which is it?

 

Yeah yeah yeah, "all" should have been "most", lol

[BigbadB]

Right, Gunned. He still managed an OPS over .700 that year. Corey really really regressed.

 

I don't think Tim was comparing the two players abilities, but rather how far of a regression each made. Burrell was horrible that year. But, he came back from it. And he did it with the same club. Whether Patterson could do the same is still in question.

[Soul]

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization, because we'll never know what he could have been with proper progression.

 

Sorry, when the kid hit .261 at AA and was fast becoming the human strikeout machine, he should have had to repeat AA the next season, maybe with a promotion to AAA later on if he figured things out. But you damn well bet in 2001 he should have stayed in the minors. 2002? You would have thought the team would have seen his .284 on base percentage as something he should work out in the minors.

 

But instead of working out his problems in small towns riding a bus to games (aka, being humbled), he was supposed to work those out in the bright lights of the big city. Sorry, but just about any 22 year old rushed from the minors and brought to the Chi is going to flop.

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him, but what is he supposed to do? Every year from 2000 keep repeating "i'm not ready, please demote me"?

 

ALL of the blame? I think Corey was handled improperly, but it's become pretty clear that while Corey is a talented athlete, he's not a talented baseball player.

 

I also must admit I was confused by Wheel's post:

 

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him

 

So which is it?

 

Yeah yeah yeah, "all" should have been "most", lol

 

 

:D

 

We don't have the Spider-sense man, you have to be careful with us mere mortals

[RynoRules]

Right, Gunned. He still managed an OPS over .700 that year. Corey really really regressed.

 

I don't think Tim was comparing the two players abilities, but rather how far of a regression each made. Burrell was horrible that year. But, he came back from it. And he did it with the same club. Whether Patterson could do the same is still in question.

 

Point well taken, though I do think we have to consider the strong possibility that CPatt and Burrell are two different people, and thus CPatt may have been less able than Burrell to deal with the booing and pressure.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Is Oddibe McDowell available? I think I'd take him at age 43 over Jones or Grissom.

[Tim]

Right, Gunned. He still managed an OPS over .700 that year. Corey really really regressed.

 

I don't think Tim was comparing the two players abilities, but rather how far of a regression each made. Burrell was horrible that year. But, he came back from it. And he did it with the same club. Whether Patterson could do the same is still in question.

 

Point well taken, though I do think we have to consider the strong possibility that CPatt and Burrell are two different people, and thus CPatt may have been less able than Burrell to deal with the booing and pressure.

Let me restate my point as I think it has been lost:

 

I'm not saying that because Burrell recovered, Corey would too. I'm saying to those that claim there was no chance of Corey recovering here that others have done so in similar situations. It is not a sure thing either way, which is all I was trying to say.

[KatJ]

A piece making nice about Don Baylor, who knew?

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060109rogers,1,1354654.column?coll=cs-cubs-utility

 

I think Don Baylor may have an even bigger memory problem than Dusty Baker. They have similar MO's here: take a really talented player, jerk him around, and not admit your role in the debacle his career has become.

 

There never seemed to be any rhyme or reason to when Baylor would play Patterson or have him sit. When Patterson did play, it was anyone's guess where he would be in the lineup. And Baylor, like Baker, was so enamored of Corey's speed that they all but ignored his power. You look at just about any article on either manager when they speak at length about Corey, and they say "Oh, he's so fast. We want him at the top of the lineup - need to use his speed."

 

Well, guess what geniuses? Speed isn't going to get you anywhere if you don't get on base to begin with.

 

How's the aphorism go - success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.

[goonys evil twin]

Right, Gunned. He still managed an OPS over .700 that year. Corey really really regressed.

 

I don't think Tim was comparing the two players abilities, but rather how far of a regression each made. Burrell was horrible that year. But, he came back from it. And he did it with the same club. Whether Patterson could do the same is still in question.

 

Point well taken, though I do think we have to consider the strong possibility that CPatt and Burrell are two different people, and thus CPatt may have been less able than Burrell to deal with the booing and pressure.

Let me restate my point as I think it has been lost:

 

I'm not saying that because Burrell recovered, Corey would too. I'm saying to those that claim there was no chance of Corey recovering here that others have done so in similar situations. It is not a sure thing either way, which is all I was trying to say.

 

Exactly. Corey "may have been less able" than Burrell to pull it off, but you don't know. The point is that when the Cubs hit a crossroads, they bailed. They didn't try to get the most out of him. Like so many others, they decided to get rid of a guy, and ended up getting crap for him. To say you absolutely would not consider using Patterson as a 4th OF is denying the team the ability to maximize their resources. This is a team and a management group whose "way" has been routinely proven to be the wrong way. If they were more interested in fielding the best team possible instead of the team that most closely resembled their narrow-minded view of what the team should look like, they could have found a way to get more out of Corey.

 

They decided it was impossible for him to do any good here, so they put the sale tag on him and listed him in the "must go" section. When they should have tried to either get the most out of him via trade (packaging him and others for an impact player) or get the most ouf him on the field (giving him one last chance in a non-leadoff role), because it is possible for one time "lost causes" to find themselves on their current team.

[frostwyrm]

I think Corey burned his last bridge when he refused to play winter ball, and I'm sure he knew it too. He just didn't want to be here anymore.

[CubinNY]

To me, all of the blame lays with the Cubs organization, because we'll never know what he could have been with proper progression.

 

Sorry, when the kid hit .261 at AA and was fast becoming the human strikeout machine, he should have had to repeat AA the next season, maybe with a promotion to AAA later on if he figured things out. But you damn well bet in 2001 he should have stayed in the minors. 2002? You would have thought the team would have seen his .284 on base percentage as something he should work out in the minors.

 

But instead of working out his problems in small towns riding a bus to games (aka, being humbled), he was supposed to work those out in the bright lights of the big city. Sorry, but just about any 22 year old rushed from the minors and brought to the Chi is going to flop.

 

Corey certainly shares some of the blame for never getting what his coaches were trying to tell him, but what is he supposed to do? Every year from 2000 keep repeating "i'm not ready, please demote me"?

 

Exactly.

 

It is foolish to take a kid from high school who relied on talent alone and rush him to the bigs.

 

Patterson has relied on what got him to the big leagues, talent. It appears to me that no one tried to coach him until he struggled in the bigs. Whose fault is that? The organization's fault.

[cubfan1955]

I think Corey burned his last bridge when he refused to play winter ball, and I'm sure he knew it too. He just didn't want to be here anymore.

 

Or maybe as an adult he knows what is best for himself. The coaching didn't seem to help last summer so why would it over the winter? I can see him thinking he needed to get away from baseball and clear his mind.

[CubinNY]

I think Corey burned his last bridge when he refused to play winter ball, and I'm sure he knew it too. He just didn't want to be here anymore.

 

Or maybe as an adult he knows what is best for himself. The coaching didn't seem to help last summer so why would it over the winter? I can see him thinking he needed to get away from baseball and clear his mind.

 

I agree. If it were me I'd think two things.

 

1. I am done with this club

2. I need to find someone to help me that I can trust

 

I am sick of reading the posts saying Corey is hard headed, dumb, or doesn't care. Think about it. If you were playing and getting paid for a living would you care? After Corey got hurt he spent the whole off-season in Arizona. After 2004 he reported early so he could get in extra work. To me that does not sound like a guy who does not care.