A Thought on the Tejada Talks...

[Outshined_One]

Things haven't been adding up for me in this whole episode. Tejada is a fine player and arguably the best SS playing SS in the game...but the Cubs already have a halfway decent guy ready to go at SS (Cedeno) who at the least would be defensively sound and, if he performs to his potential, could be a fine offensive player for this team. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Hendry would so doggedly be going after Tejada to the point of being willing to give up Prior and prospects.

 

Moreover, apparently he's unwilling to budge on a deal for Tejada involving Zambrano, who is more proven than Prior is, but has less time left on his contract and also has had enough of a workload in recent years that there is plenty of concern for him injury-wise. Also, neither Prior nor Zambrano would turn the Orioles into a legitimate contender in the AL East.

 

What's also struck me is the fact that the Cubs have indicated that they have asked about Tejada's availability, but that they never put a firm offer on the table for Tejada. Yet, sources have adamantly indicated that the Cubs HAVE made these offer and that all of them have included Prior in one way or another, essentially.

 

We've gone over a lot of possibilities for this scenario. Maybe Jim Hendry is going to make a last ditch attempt at improving this offense significantly and keeping him own job in the process by sacrificing some pitching. Maybe Ken Rosenthal threw a random rumor to the wall and the national sports media has run with it. Maybe this was just all a case of miscommunication between the various people involved in this deal.

 

Yet, this whole time, neither fan base wanted this deal. Orioles fans didn't like it because they'd be sacrificing a former MVP whose production at SS would be impossible to replace. Cubs fans didn't like it because Prior was under the Cubs' control, was young, and that acquiring Tejada at the cost of pitching depth and talent was not worth it. Very few people seemed in favor of this deal on either side.

 

But, I had an idea about this trade. It works well for both ends, although I think it would make more sense for the Orioles than the Cubs.

 

What if these were rumors that were intentionally planted in order to up a player's trade value?

 

Boston needs a SS. They just offloaded Edgar Renteria as well as their best SS prospect in Hanley Ramirez. They also have a somewhat disgruntled but incredibly talented LF in Manny Ramirez as well as some prospect. Boston fans have been drooling over the idea of acquiring Miguel Tejada wearing a Red Sox uniform. However, he was not going to come cheap; it would cost more than just Manny to get him.

 

What if Peter Angelos or people within the Baltimore organization decided to plant these rumors about Jim Hendry being willing to trade Mark Prior for Miguel Tejada in order to hold the Red Sox hostage for more prospects or players in a trade for Tejada? That they have intentionally leaked these rumors in order to try and have the Red Sox panic and overpay for Tejada?

 

It could work equally well with the Cubs and Mark Prior, although who the Cubs were holding hostage with this deal is some one I'm unaware of.

 

Still, it's food for thought. I could be off about it, but this is an idea that seems to make the most sense right now.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How many Tejada threads do we need?

[Outshined_One]

How many Tejada threads do we need?

 

As many as it takes. :P

[Roast]

How many Tejada threads do we need?

 

This one is plenty justified i think.

 

As far as OO's Idea, its intersting. I would think it would only harm the cubs however. Lets immagine the cubs want a piece of dunn/abreu/manny, but they do not want to offer up prior. The reds/phills/sox would be able to say "what, you offered him up for Tejada but not dunn/abreu/manny??? Goodbye"

 

 

EDITED: because I cant spell.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

First off, I like this type of thread.

I to question this whole Tejada mess.

I believe Miggy wants to be traded. But I just can't figure why Hendry would start with Prior. He never has started at the top, why now? Yes, I realize its one of the top SS in the majors. But who put Priors name in this so called offer, if one was even made. From what I understand most if not all teams that talked to the Cubs at the winter meetings wanted Pie. I understand that Hendry wouldn't get in the door with just Pie and maybe the O's don't need him. But enough teams expressed interest in him that Baltimore could spin him around to bring in what they want.

As far as Dunn goes? I don't believe the Reds would ever trade him to the Cubs for the same reason the O's supposedly won't trade Tejada to the Red Sox.

Sorry so winded, but I agree, somethin's fishy about these so called trade talks.

I do have a question or two. Has Hendry actually said anything about this?

And is this legal for clubs to bring up an idea that outshined was talking about?

I know clubs can't talk between themselves about controling the amount of money a player gets or something along those lines.

Again sorry, I'm just not up on most of this stuff as a lot of you are.

[Outshined_One]

I do have a question or two. Has Hendry actually said anything about this?

And is this legal for clubs to bring up an idea that outshined was talking about?

I know clubs can't talk between themselves about controling the amount of money a player gets or something along those lines.

 

1) To my knowledge, Hendry has not officially said anything about trading Prior for Tejada. There was an article not too long ago that said that the Cubs asked about Tejada at the winter meetings, but made no firm offers. However, I don't remember if that source was unnamed or if it actually was Hendry.

 

2) Thanks to the miracle of plausible deniability, clubs could get away with this kind of action if they so chose. I'm sure that if the above scenario were true, it would entail all sorts of ethical violations and break plenty of rules, but teams could easily deny doing this sort of thing and not get into any trouble for it.

[RockTheIvy]

A second spitter?

[iowacub]

Personally, I do not think that the Cubs ever had an "offer" on the table. They asked about Tejeda, Orioles asked for Zambrano. Cubs said no but what about Prior, O's said no, only Zambrano. Names got tossed back and forth but their never was a real "match" for the talks to get super serious.

 

I was told that the White Sox, Red Sox, and Astros have or are preparing their "best offers" for Tejeda over the weekend. Presumably, the O's will probably go after the best offer if they are going to trade Tejeda. Personally, I think that they have to trade him now.

[PieOnMyHands]

A second spitter?

 

=D> =D>

[back2backjax]

As far as Dunn goes? I don't believe the Reds would ever trade him to the Cubs for the same reason the O's supposedly won't trade Tejada to the Red Sox.

 

i agree with lefty. i don't see dunn coming to the cubs unless hendry offered a deal that simply could not be matched by anyone else, and frankly i'm not sure dunn is that type of player. he Ks a lot and is not the most sure-handed outfielder around.

 

it would make sense that hendry would try to acquire zito to then spin him off for abreu, but if he were going to do this, why sign jones? i think most of us exprect murton to outproduce jones this season so spending $5M on jones for 3 years when you've got murton cheap makes no sense if you're trying to acquire a RF.

 

as for tejada, i think OO makes an interesting point. stockstill could have orchestrated the cubs rumors to get the red sox to up the ante on their deal.

[Laura]

For what it's worth, Steve Stone talked about the rumors the other day (yesterday?) on the Score. He didn't distinguish between what he was speculating and what he had heard as rumor. Here's his scenario:

 

Tejada says he wants a trade.

 

Hendry calls up Baltimore and opens with Patterson, Hill and 3 "very good prospects" (no names mentioned).

 

Duquette & Flanagan (sp?) laugh and say that if the Cubs want Tejada, the deal has to include Prior or Zambrano.

 

"Well, the Cubs are not going to trade Carlos Zambrano," Stone said. He continued to say that if the Cubs are going to trade Mark Prior, they are going to need to get another potentially very good starting pitcher, like a Bedard.

 

The O's, however, do not want to part with Bedard unless they get their choice of pitchers (Zambrano, since he's now viewed as indestructable and would rather be killed than miss a start) or another very good starting pitcher somehow gets involved in the deal (hence the Zito rumors) and goes to the O's.

 

That's where the deal stalled.

[iowacub]

For what it's worth, Steve Stone talked about the rumors the other day (yesterday?) on the Score. He didn't distinguish between what he was speculating and what he had heard as rumor. Here's his scenario:

 

Tejada says he wants a trade.

 

Hendry calls up Baltimore and opens with Patterson, Hill and 3 "very good prospects" (no names mentioned).

 

Duquette & Flanagan (sp?) laugh and say that if the Cubs want Tejada, the deal has to include Prior or Zambrano.

 

"Well, the Cubs are not going to trade Carlos Zambrano," Stone said. He continued to say that if the Cubs are going to trade Mark Prior, they are going to need to get another potentially very good starting pitcher, like a Bedard.

 

The O's, however, do not want to part with Bedard unless they get their choice of pitchers (Zambrano, since he's now viewed as indestructable and would rather be killed than miss a start) or another very good starting pitcher somehow gets involved in the deal (hence the Zito rumors) and goes to the O's.

 

That's where the deal stalled.

 

that is basically the way i understood the trade talks as well...the Cubs were and are not shopping prior like some may think.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

Thanks all. Now that all of this and none of that makes any sense I'll go to bed and prepare for tomorrows activities.

Everyone have a Happy New Year and Die Bleeding Blue.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

OK, here's what I think\know:

 

- Prior is very much on the table. What would the Cubs gain by reporting\leaking Prior was offered? Nothing.

 

- Bruce Miles indicated on NSBB Hendry was targeting Tejada big time.

 

- Hendry isn't convinced Prior can stay healthy. Why would he offer Prior but not Z?

 

- Hendry believes there's one true hole on this team SS\2B. He feels Walkers D is unacceptable and Bruce Miles indicated on NSBB the Cubs realize Nefei isn't good enough to be a starter.

 

- Hendry is in a contract year so he's most likely in a "win now" mode therefore I bet he's willing to sell out the long term (Prior) for the short term (Tejada). If Hendry believes Prior is a big injury risk it makes sense.

 

 

Those are my 2 cents... flame away. :wink:

[Outshined_One]

OK, here's what I think\know:

 

- Prior is very much on the table. What would the Cubs gain by reporting\leaking Prior was offered? Nothing.

 

Hence the reason why I think the Orioles were the one to leak this rumor.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

OK, here's what I think\know:

 

- Prior is very much on the table. What would the Cubs gain by reporting\leaking Prior was offered? Nothing.

 

Hence the reason why I think the Orioles were the one to leak this rumor.

 

I think the O's would become very unpopular in baseball circles if they made something like that up. I really do think Prior was\is on the table, too many sources had variations on this deal to have me believe otherwise.

[pete the dog]

Things haven't been adding up for me in this whole episode. Tejada is a fine player and arguably the best SS playing SS in the game...but the Cubs already have a halfway decent guy ready to go at SS (Cedeno) who at the least would be defensively sound and, if he performs to his potential, could be a fine offensive player for this team. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that Hendry would so doggedly be going after Tejada to the point of being willing to give up Prior and prospects.

 

Moreover, apparently he's unwilling to budge on a deal for Tejada involving Zambrano, who is more proven than Prior is, but has less time left on his contract and also has had enough of a workload in recent years that there is plenty of concern for him injury-wise. Also, neither Prior nor Zambrano would turn the Orioles into a legitimate contender in the AL East.

 

What's also struck me is the fact that the Cubs have indicated that they have asked about Tejada's availability, but that they never put a firm offer on the table for Tejada. Yet, sources have adamantly indicated that the Cubs HAVE made these offer and that all of them have included Prior in one way or another, essentially.

 

We've gone over a lot of possibilities for this scenario. Maybe Jim Hendry is going to make a last ditch attempt at improving this offense significantly and keeping him own job in the process by sacrificing some pitching. Maybe Ken Rosenthal threw a random rumor to the wall and the national sports media has run with it. Maybe this was just all a case of miscommunication between the various people involved in this deal.

 

Yet, this whole time, neither fan base wanted this deal. Orioles fans didn't like it because they'd be sacrificing a former MVP whose production at SS would be impossible to replace. Cubs fans didn't like it because Prior was under the Cubs' control, was young, and that acquiring Tejada at the cost of pitching depth and talent was not worth it. Very few people seemed in favor of this deal on either side.

 

But, I had an idea about this trade. It works well for both ends, although I think it would make more sense for the Orioles than the Cubs.

 

What if these were rumors that were intentionally planted in order to up a player's trade value?

 

Boston needs a SS. They just offloaded Edgar Renteria as well as their best SS prospect in Hanley Ramirez. They also have a somewhat disgruntled but incredibly talented LF in Manny Ramirez as well as some prospect. Boston fans have been drooling over the idea of acquiring Miguel Tejada wearing a Red Sox uniform. However, he was not going to come cheap; it would cost more than just Manny to get him.

 

What if Peter Angelos or people within the Baltimore organization decided to plant these rumors about Jim Hendry being willing to trade Mark Prior for Miguel Tejada in order to hold the Red Sox hostage for more prospects or players in a trade for Tejada? That they have intentionally leaked these rumors in order to try and have the Red Sox panic and overpay for Tejada?

 

It could work equally well with the Cubs and Mark Prior, although who the Cubs were holding hostage with this deal is some one I'm unaware of.

 

Still, it's food for thought. I could be off about it, but this is an idea that seems to make the most sense right now.

 

 

I think the trilateral commision is involved... :D

[Outshined_One]

I think the trilateral commision is involved... :D

 

I've always been more of a fan of the Illuminati. ;)

[USSoccer]

So the Orioles, in conjunction with the reverse Vampires and Saucer people, coordinated a leak stating Mark Prior was available in order to futher a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner?

 

We're through the looking glass, people.

[rsmoler]

The idea that Hendry is in a contract year and thus is willing to sacrifice the long term to win this year doesn't make sense. If that were the case, he had a perfect opportunity to put exactly the kind of club he wanted to on the field. All he had to do is offer Furcal $55 mil. or whatever it took over 5 years and then blow Giles away with a deal he couldn't refuse. If the base salaries were lower in the first year and escalated in subsequent years, Hendry could have certainly handled the salaries this year, especially after dumping Patterson and Walker. With Wood and Maddux off the books next year, replaced by young pitchers, overpaying this year would have made even more sense. But Hendry didn't do that. He didn't even bid for Giles and turned down the opportunity to sign Furcal when he was there for the taking. Why in the world Hendry thought he could get a right fielder and a middle infielder through trades when he wasn't willing to part with Zambrano, Lee, Ramirez, Prior, Pie or Hill, I have no idea.

 

Personally, I think Hendry seriously misread the market this year and as a result turned the opportunity of a lifetime into a mess of an offseason.

The real mistake here will be if Hendry tries to make up for bad decisions made earlier in the offseason by doing something silly now. Trading Prior for Tejada seems like one of those silly moves. If the Cubs are going to win this year, it's going to be Prior, Zambrano and a comback by Wood, plus the bullpen that's going to get them there. Pitching wins games anyway you look at it. If you've got to take a risk this season, I would think it's a lot safer bet that Prior will finally reach his potential and win 20+ games. I just don't see Bedard and Tejada providing the same kind of upside as Prior does.

[CuseCubFan69]

I think O_O is Sicilian.

 

It's too bad the Cubs didn't float the "Baker is on the table" for the O's before they hired a manager.

[CubsWin]

OK, here's what I think\know:

 

- Prior is very much on the table. What would the Cubs gain by reporting\leaking Prior was offered? Nothing.

 

- Bruce Miles indicated on NSBB Hendry was targeting Tejada big time.

 

- Hendry isn't convinced Prior can stay healthy. Why would he offer Prior but not Z?

 

- Hendry believes there's one true hole on this team SS\2B. He feels Walkers D is unacceptable and Bruce Miles indicated on NSBB the Cubs realize Nefei isn't good enough to be a starter.

 

- Hendry is in a contract year so he's most likely in a "win now" mode therefore I bet he's willing to sell out the long term (Prior) for the short term (Tejada). If Hendry believes Prior is a big injury risk it makes sense.

 

 

Those are my 2 cents... flame away. :wink:

The only problem is, according to the latest reports, Hendry didn't offer Prior, the O's requested him. Big difference.

 

Hendry's response was basically the same as saying "no" to trading Prior. He said he would need Bedard in return. The O's balked. And thats where it sits.

 

The facts don't support your theory.

 

Hendry doesn't necessarily feel there is "one true hole" in the Cubs middle infield either. He is simply trying to improve the Cubs line-up. He rightly feels the line-up is lacking and is trying to address it. Whether it comes in the form of a middle infielder or an OFer doesn't matter. The signing of Jones, while inexplicable to me, doesn't preclude the Cubs from acquiring a stud RFer. If Murton is included in the deal, Jones moves to LF and the hole in the line-up is addressed without touching the middle infield.

[CubsWin]

OK, here's what I think\know:

 

- Prior is very much on the table. What would the Cubs gain by reporting\leaking Prior was offered? Nothing.

 

Hence the reason why I think the Orioles were the one to leak this rumor.

 

I think the O's would become very unpopular in baseball circles if they made something like that up. I really do think Prior was\is on the table, too many sources had variations on this deal to have me believe otherwise.

The press has been known to run with a rumor from time to time, haven't they? After all, they aren't selling actual news, they are selling newspapers. Its all about circulation and ratings.

 

And with the absence of any quotes coming from Hendry confirming his willingness to trade Prior, the impirical evidence for your theory is non-existent. I'm not saying the O's started this rumor. But I wouldn't put it past Ken Rosenthal to write the article that started this Prior rumor without "filling in the blanks" a little to make his story sound a little more juicy than it actually was.

[biittner77]

I've been away for a few days and haven't read all the threads on this. When I was in Chicago, I heard there was speculation that the Cubs didn't believe they could sign Prior long term (specifically, Prior wants to go back to CA.) so they're trying to trade him now for another superstar to make his departure look like a positive.

[RynoRules]

I've been away for a few days and haven't read all the threads on this. When I was in Chicago, I heard there was speculation that the Cubs didn't believe they could sign Prior long term (specifically, Prior wants to go back to CA.) so they're trying to trade him now for another superstar to make his departure look like a positive.

 

There was speculation, yes. The facts appear to be that the O's asked for Prior or Z, and the Cubs have balked at that demand. Most are speculating now that the Cubs have offered a package of prospects, but the O's did not want it (at least initially). Rogers initimated as much in this morning's Trib. He also opined that whatever the least sensible deal is, the O's will likely do it.