If the Cubs are going to trade Prior...

[Bote McBoteface]

this is so stupid. I just don't get it. If Hendry is so excited about the possibility of getting Tejada that he is willing to trade Prior, why didn't he just sign him when he was available? If this trade goes down I will seriously consider whether or not to just say screw the Cubs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This is wonderful. Having not learned from the Greg Maddux ordeal years ago the Cubs have decided to let younger fans know what it feels like to let a young ace go. This franchise abuses its fans and like addicts we all line up and take it.

 

Prior hasn't pitched like an "ace" except for 2003. Gotta put some blame on the guy too for the Game 6 choke against the Marlins.

 

If that's part of the reason we trade him, then we are very very very very very very stupid as an organization.

[illiniguy]

this is so stupid. I just don't get it. If Hendry is so excited about the possibility of getting Tejada that he is willing to trade Prior, why didn't he just sign him when he was available? If this trade goes down I will seriously consider whether or not to just say screw the Cubs.

I think it will be a no brainer for a lot of fans if this trade goes down.

[illiniguy]

This is wonderful. Having not learned from the Greg Maddux ordeal years ago the Cubs have decided to let younger fans know what it feels like to let a young ace go. This franchise abuses its fans and like addicts we all line up and take it.

 

Prior hasn't pitched like an "ace" except for 2003. Gotta put some blame on the guy too for the Game 6 choke against the Marlins.

 

If that's part of the reason we trade him, then we are very very very very very very stupid as an organization.

Yes but we have all known this for years, seriously we lucked into a an all star pitcher and now we might just give him away. Hell we might as well trade Z for pudge afterall we could have had him in 2004 too.

[dacheezwhiz]

i would die if we could get miguel cabrera...but otherwise not much i would take him for straight up. I just generally dislike arod, even though i admit he is probably the best player in game right now, i dont want to see hima cardinal for pujols cuz u know he'll blow up. I don't see the purpose of trading him for pitching because he is younger and has a higher ceiling than pretty much anybody we'd be willing to trade him for.

[Zaphkiel]

Wait, I'm confused. Why shouldn't Prior not pitching like an ace since 2003 be a valid reason to consider trading him? I like him as much as the next guy, but freak injuries or not, Prior has to, at minimum, pitch a whole season at a high level before he becomes this weird Seaver/Clemens/Second Coming conglomeration this board has prematurely turned him into.

 

Prior is not, I repeat not a superstar yet. In all honesty, he's not even an ace yet. The last two years, he's just been pretty good. If we can get one of the top 3 shortstops in the game plus a serviceable pitching replacement for him and Hill(or whichever prospect), we should pull the trigger and run away laughing.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If I'm going to use Prior as a trading chip, I'd try to assemble this three-way deal.

 

Cubs get Arod + Wang + Yankees pick up 1/2 of the defered payments on Arod's contract.

Yankees get Prior + Glaus

Diamondbacks get: Patterson + Cubs prospect

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Wait, I'm confused. Why shouldn't Prior not pitching like an ace since 2003 be a valid reason to consider trading him? I like him as much as the next guy, but freak injuries or not, Prior has to, at minimum, pitch a whole season at a high level before he becomes this weird Seaver/Clemens/Second Coming conglomeration this board has prematurely turned him into.

 

Prior is not, I repeat not a superstar yet. In all honesty, he's not even an ace yet. The last two years, he's just been pretty good. If we can get one of the top 3 shortstops in the game plus a serviceable pitching replacement for him and Hill(or whichever prospect), we should pull the trigger and run away laughing.

 

His average ERA+ the last 3 years is higher than Tejada's OPS+ the last 3 years. If he's not a superstar, Tejada isn't either.

[Connor McConnor]

Wait, I'm confused. Why shouldn't Prior not pitching like an ace since 2003 be a valid reason to consider trading him? I like him as much as the next guy, but freak injuries or not, Prior has to, at minimum, pitch a whole season at a high level before he becomes this weird Seaver/Clemens/Second Coming conglomeration this board has prematurely turned him into.

 

Prior is not, I repeat not a superstar yet. In all honesty, he's not even an ace yet. The last two years, he's just been pretty good. If we can get one of the top 3 shortstops in the game plus a serviceable pitching replacement for him and Hill(or whichever prospect), we should pull the trigger and run away laughing.

 

Thats what I thought I saw the last 2 years. Inconsistency. NOT a dominating superstar....like he is being painted as here.

 

Im not sure that the deal is right.....but I agree with your assessment of the history of Prior. It's accurate.

 

He might go onto to be a 20 game winner....and all that....but until he does.....he's got an awful lot to prove. Im not convinced that "injuries" are the only reason for his crappy performance in 04-05.....it could also be that the league saw him a few times and can hit him....or get him off his game. It's certainly a possibility. THe 04-05 Prior IS worth trading for Tejada. THe 03 is not. THe question is.....which is he?

[Fro]

Wait, I'm confused. Why shouldn't Prior not pitching like an ace since 2003 be a valid reason to consider trading him? I like him as much as the next guy, but freak injuries or not, Prior has to, at minimum, pitch a whole season at a high level before he becomes this weird Seaver/Clemens/Second Coming conglomeration this board has prematurely turned him into.

 

Prior is not, I repeat not a superstar yet. In all honesty, he's not even an ace yet. The last two years, he's just been pretty good. If we can get one of the top 3 shortstops in the game plus a serviceable pitching replacement for him and Hill(or whichever prospect), we should pull the trigger and run away laughing.

 

His average ERA+ the last 3 years is higher than Tejada's OPS+ the last 3 years. If he's not a superstar, Tejada isn't either.

 

Just to continue playing devil's advocate...

 

Tejada plays every day while Prior has pitched over 170 Innings in a year once in his career.

 

And remember, Prior is going to get a big pay hike due to being arbitration-eligible, so he's not going to be "as cheap" in 2007/2008 as he is now.

[goonys evil twin]

If you judge a 24 year old pitcher just on what he has not yet done in the majors and refuse to look at the likelihood of what he will do in the future, you aren't very good at thinking about baseball.

[goonys evil twin]

And remember, Prior is going to get a big pay hike due to being arbitration-eligible, so he's not going to be "as cheap" in 2007/2008 as he is now.

 

Tejada won't be as good in 2007/2008 as he is right now.

[Fanzones trumpet]

Prior is not, I repeat not a superstar yet. In all honesty, he's not even an ace yet. The last two years, he's just been pretty good. If we can get one of the top 3 shortstops in the game plus a serviceable pitching replacement for him and Hill(or whichever prospect), we should pull the trigger and run away laughing.

 

You win with pitching; specifically dominating pitching, which Prior's numbers in 2003, the last month of 2004, and the first two months of 2005 before getting hit with the line drive show him capable of. You don't trade that kind of talent for 30 year old shortstops and "serviceable" pitchers. That kind of package won't get you where you supposedly want to go. IMO, if the Cubs want to trade Prior, they should conduct a fire sale a la the Marlins and sell off their most valuable assets (Zambrano Lee, Ramirez) to the highest bidders for 10-15 blue chip young players. They'd win a World Series quicker that way than with the proposed Tejada trade.

[Fanzones trumpet]

You'd be insane to trade Prior for Willis or Sheets. Straight up for ARod is dumb considering financials. A lot of those are absurd, there's only a couple guys who are worth him straight up.

 

How do you figure that trading Prior for Willis would be "insane." Willis is younger, more durable, LH, and dominating. I doubt Florida makes that trade if the Cubs offered it.

[goonys evil twin]

How do you figure that trading Prior for Willis would be "insane." Willis is younger, more durable, LH, and dominating. I doubt Florida makes that trade if the Cubs offered it.

 

He's not nearly as dominating, nor does he has near the upside. Florida wouldn't make the trade only because Willis is the face of the franchise and they are trading veterans for prospects.

[Fanzones trumpet]

He's not nearly as dominating, nor does he has near the upside. Florida wouldn't make the trade only because Willis is the face of the franchise and they are trading veterans for prospects.

 

22-10 with a WHIP of 1.13 at age 23 is plenty dominating. And his upside is the same as Prior's--the Hall of Fame. The fact that he doesn't strike out as many batters as Prior irrelevant; he gets batters out quicker, allowing him to go deeper into games than Prior. Florida wouldn't make the trade not because Willis is the face of the franchise but because Willis has been at least as effective over the last three years, is younger, and--most importantly--far more durable.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's not nearly as dominating, nor does he has near the upside. Florida wouldn't make the trade only because Willis is the face of the franchise and they are trading veterans for prospects.

 

22-10 with a WHIP of 1.13 at age 23 is plenty dominating. And his upside is the same as Prior's--the Hall of Fame. The fact that he doesn't strike out as many batters as Prior irrelevant; he gets batters out quicker, allowing him to go deeper into games than Prior. Florida wouldn't make the trade not because Willis is the face of the franchise but because Willis has been at least as effective over the last three years, is younger, and--most importantly--far more durable.

 

Prior:

 

Age 21: 122 ERA+ in 116.2 IP

22: 175 ERA+ in 211.1 IP

23: 113 ERA+ in 118.2 IP

24: 116 ERA+ in 166.2 IP

Career: 132 ERA+ in 613.1 IP

 

Willis:

 

Age 21: 122 ERA+ in 160.2 IP

22: 102 ERA+ in 197 IP

23: 153 ERA+ in 236.1 IP

Career: 124 ERA+ in 594 IP

[Fanzones trumpet]

I'm not following you CPatt. Are you saying there's a significant difference between 124+ and 132+ era? Even if that's the case, the durability issue is critical.

[YearofDaCubs]

And to think we had Willis in the minors along with Prior and he looks to be the next one to be out.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not following you CPatt. Are you saying there's a significant difference between 124+ and 132+ era? Even if that's the case, the durability issue is critical.

 

Durability issue? Would Willis not have missed time if he took a line drive off the elbow? Would he not have missed time after trucking into Marcus Giles? Prior's missed time in '04 can be held against him for his legitimate injury, that's fine. But Prior has more IP than Willis, so it's not a sample size issue. He's been better in his career, and the durability is only a concern if the legitimate injury returns, which is only marginally more likely than Willis developing problems of his own with his motion.

[Fanzones trumpet]

I'm not following you CPatt. Are you saying there's a significant difference between 124+ and 132+ era? Even if that's the case, the durability issue is critical.

 

Durability issue? Would Willis not have missed time if he took a line drive off the elbow? Would he not have missed time after trucking into Marcus Giles? Prior's missed time in '04 can be held against him for his legitimate injury, that's fine. But Prior has more IP than Willis, so it's not a sample size issue. He's been better in his career, and the durability is only a concern if the legitimate injury returns, which is only marginally more likely than Willis developing problems of his own with his motion.

 

Prior has 20 more IP than Willis only because he's been in the major leagues a full season longer. He's had a significant elbow injury in his career that can't be dismissed. We also don't know at this point what effect (if any) last year's injury will have; he certainly wasn't the same pitcher after getting hit. I can't see how anyone can make a case that it would be "insane" to trade Prior for Willis at this point given their respective ages, performances last year, and Prior's injury issues.

[Magnetic Curses]

I'm not following you CPatt. Are you saying there's a significant difference between 124+ and 132+ era? Even if that's the case, the durability issue is critical.

 

Durability issue? Would Willis not have missed time if he took a line drive off the elbow? Would he not have missed time after trucking into Marcus Giles? Prior's missed time in '04 can be held against him for his legitimate injury, that's fine. But Prior has more IP than Willis, so it's not a sample size issue. He's been better in his career, and the durability is only a concern if the legitimate injury returns, which is only marginally more likely than Willis developing problems of his own with his motion.

 

Prior has 20 more IP than Willis only because he's been in the major leagues a full season longer. He's had a significant elbow injury in his career that can't be dismissed. We also don't know at this point what effect (if any) last year's injury will have; he certainly wasn't the same pitcher after getting hit. I can't see how anyone can make a case that it would be "insane" to trade Prior for Willis at this point given their respective ages, performances last year, and Prior's injury issues.

 

significant elbow injury? when was this, and did he have surgery?

 

i seem to recall rumors and conjecture but nothing that could be called "significant".

[Fanzones trumpet]

significant elbow injury? when was this, and did he have surgery?

 

i seem to recall rumors and conjecture but nothing that could be called "significant".

 

He didn't have surgery, but I'd characterize missing 2 months of a season as a "significant" injury.

[YearofDaCubs]

significant elbow injury? when was this, and did he have surgery?

 

i seem to recall rumors and conjecture but nothing that could be called "significant".

 

He didn't have surgery, but I'd characterize missing 2 months of a season as a "significant" injury.

That was an achilles injury not an elbow injury.

[Magnetic Curses]

He didn't have surgery, but I'd characterize missing 2 months of a season as a "significant" injury.

 

are you talking about his achilles injury?