More moves on the horizon?

[goonys evil twin]

With Tejada the offense gets a little better. It's still not a top one. You still have to rely on Pierre to get back to his pre-05 numbers. Murton and Cedeno have to play first of all, and secondly have to perform to the high end of expectations. Oh yeah, you still can't afford any injuries and Ramirez, Lee, and Barrett have to maintain their 05 numbers.

 

Depends on how the Tejada deal does down. With Tejada at short and Walker at 2nd, I think this could be a top 5 offense, possibly top 3 with a little luck. Suddenly you have a legit 5 hole hitter. You have a legit 2-5 actually, and Jones, Murton, Barrett could be a good 6-8. Pierre will be okay. I don't expect a resurgence, but he will be good enough to not handicap that very solid 2-5.

 

The reason this offense is going to be bad is because Walker is not going to hit, Neifi will, and Jones will be a 5 hitter.

[neely crenshaw]

5 mil isn't much? why would we spend even that for a platoon, when playing corey with murton would be basically the same? why not put that into getting a real outfielder? why put what we paid burnitz into a 70%. i mean we had lawton or gerut last year that could have done it..basically as well.

if he isn't getting him to play everyday- which with dusty, we all know he is- why pay even that much?

i guess with a lefty it woudn't be awful since he would get 70% or better of the swings. i also know that despite his obvious struggles corey never was even given days off against lefties. see also burnitz,jeromy...

 

it just would make more sense-if you were to platoon-to go with murton and corey...and then try to get a stud in right.

 

the only thing that jones has on corey is that we are pretty sure what he will bring. in the three years, he will play- he will hit .250-275-20ish hrs and 70 rbis.

with corey we don't know if we will get 2003,2004 or 2005.

 

i just hope that if there are any other possible deals out there, this doesn't kill those. i seriously worry that with pierre,jones, the bullpen and kerry's 12 mil on the books, that we have only a few non-impact signings left.

 

by the way lee and rameriz were far from stars when hendry traded for them. nomar was dumped from world series winning team, hardly the treatment of a "star" player...he was a good gamble but loaded with ? he was actually two years past being the star that tejada is.

[LuckyPup]

I really think Hendry may be planning to move Murton-A team like the A's would be interested in a package of TWalk+Murton+R.Hill for Zito-

 

Then perhaps flipping Zito+J. Williams+Cpatt+Novoa to Philly for Abreu-

(Sorry, I'm just trying to find hope in this pathetic offseason)

 

Pierre-CF

Jones-LF(Dusty is going to bat him 2nd-because he has "speed")

Lee-1B

Abreu-RF

Aram-3B

Barret-C

Perez-2B

Cedeno-SS

[Blueheart05]

I really think Hendry may be planning to move Murton-A team like the A's would be interested in a package of TWalk+Murton+R.Hill for Zito-

 

Then perhaps flipping Zito+J. Williams+Cpatt+Novoa to Philly for Abreu-

(Sorry, I'm just trying to find hope in this pathetic offseason)

 

Pierre-CF

Jones-LF(Dusty is going to bat him 2nd-because he has "speed")

Lee-1B

Abreu-RF

Aram-3B

Barret-C

Perez-2B

Cedeno-SS

 

The more I think about it, I'm pretty sure that he'll bat second. Didn't the Twind use him as their leadoff hitter (or am I thinking about someone else?) Anyway, bank on Jones in the 2nd or 4th slot.

 

:P

[abuck1220]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

[Blueheart05]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

 

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching. Walker isn't a big enough difference maker on offense so if he can be used to acquire a quality starter, the Cubs need to trade him. The Cubs rotation is littered with question marks. We need another starter.

[nick23]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

 

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching. Walker isn't a big enough difference maker on offense so if he can be used to acquire a quality starter, the Cubs need to trade him. The Cubs rotation is littered with question marks. We need another starter.

 

I disagree. The dropoff from Walker to Neifi is a very big one. I just can't see Walker netting us a starter that's any better that what we already have(Williams).

[Mark_R]

How could a reasonable manager not try and platoon Jacque Jones and his .617 OPS vs lefties?

 

Oh wait......

[Mark_R]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

I'll be pissed if we give big money to a mediocre pitcher like Jeff Weaver as I've seen desires for on this board.

 

But that's the Cubs' MO: Overspending for mediocrity, so it would not shock me.

[erik316wttn]

We ask if there are "more moves on the horizon" after the Cubs make a move, but yet there never are.

 

I very much doubt Hendry makes any "big" moves for a starter after this. He may make a small move or two for the bench, and get whatever he can for Corey, but I'm sad to say Juan Pierre is the crown jewel of the Cubs offseason acquisitions.

[Blueheart05]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

 

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching. Walker isn't a big enough difference maker on offense so if he can be used to acquire a quality starter, the Cubs need to trade him. The Cubs rotation is littered with question marks. We need another starter.

 

I disagree. The dropoff from Walker to Neifi is a very big one. I just can't see Walker netting us a starter that's any better that what we already have(Williams).

 

Walker is not a difference maker on offense and I'm not saying Walker alone will net a pitcher. He should be packaged or the Cubs should look to sign a FA. Neifi at the bottom of the lineup (if it comes to that) isn't the worst thing in the world.

[abuck1220]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

 

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching. Walker isn't a big enough difference maker on offense so if he can be used to acquire a quality starter, the Cubs need to trade him. The Cubs rotation is littered with question marks. We need another starter.

 

in my mind, the difference between walker and neifi is bigger than the difference between williams and whatever starter walker will be dealt for. if you get another starter for walker, you are looking at the potential of being below average offensively at lf, cf, rf, ss and 2b. marquis, zito, whoever isn't going to make a difference with an offense that includes cedeno, murton, jones and neifi.

 

pierre

neifi

lee

ramirez

jones

barrett

murton

cedeno

 

do you realize how bad that offense could potentially be?

[abuck1220]

i'm going to be real pissed if walker is traded for a starting pitcher. whether 'speedy' hendry believes it or not, the offense is the problem, and the cubs already have prior, z, maddux, williams, rusch, wood, and hill. the thing is, i think the injury excuse is so front and center in speedy's mind that i can see him wanting to be like 11 deep in the rotation.

 

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching. Walker isn't a big enough difference maker on offense so if he can be used to acquire a quality starter, the Cubs need to trade him. The Cubs rotation is littered with question marks. We need another starter.

 

I disagree. The dropoff from Walker to Neifi is a very big one. I just can't see Walker netting us a starter that's any better that what we already have(Williams).

 

Walker is not a difference maker on offense and I'm not saying Walker alone will net a pitcher. He should be packaged or the Cubs should look to sign a FA. Neifi at the bottom of the lineup (if it comes to that) isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

if you're signing a FA pitcher, then why do you have to trade walker? it's not like he's taking up a huge chunk of the payroll.

 

and it's not neifi at the bottom of the order that's the bad thing (and it's worth noting that he probably won't be at the bottom of any lineup dusty fills out), it's neifi in a lineup that includes 3-4 other below average guys.

[Diffusion]

5m isn't big money for the left side of a platoon.

 

If you perhaps name me a few left side of the platoon players that are earning more than $5m per in a multi-year deal, that'd be cool. Thanks in advance.

[goonys evil twin]

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching.

 

Yes, this team's fortunes rely heavily on the starting pitchers. Wood, Prior and Zambrano have to be great. But they shouldn't make it any harder on them by weakending the lineup any further. Another 5th starter isn't going to help this team.

[JeffH]

The worst case scenario that we need to avoid is Murton or some mediocre veteran in LF, Jones in RF, Cedeno and/or Perez at SS, and a current non-Walker Cub at 2B.

 

Either keep Walker, get Tejada, or get a viable middle-of-the-order hitter for the outfield.

 

Preferably all three!

[Blueheart05]

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching.

 

Yes, this team's fortunes rely heavily on the starting pitchers. Wood, Prior and Zambrano have to be great. But they shouldn't make it any harder on them by weakending the lineup any further. Another 5th starter isn't going to help this team.

 

I'm not talking about getting another 5th starter. A true third starter (with Wood out) would be ideal. Williams/Rusch/Maddux (with Hill as the fall back) is scary to me. I like Williams but relying on him to be the 3rd guy isn't a good thing. Rusch is a 5th starter and Maddog is 4/5 depending on the other guys. Teams can win with weak offenses and great pitching. Walker isn't Tejada so if he can be used to better the rotation I'm all for it.

[nick23]

I disagree. This team will win or lose with its pitching.

 

Yes, this team's fortunes rely heavily on the starting pitchers. Wood, Prior and Zambrano have to be great. But they shouldn't make it any harder on them by weakending the lineup any further. Another 5th starter isn't going to help this team.

 

I'm not talking about getting another 5th starter. A true third starter (with Wood out) would be ideal. Williams/Rusch/Maddux (with Hill as the fall back) is scary to me. I like Williams but relying on him to be the 3rd guy isn't a good thing. Rusch is a 5th starter and Maddog is 4/5 depending on the other guys. Teams can win with weak offenses and great pitching. Walker isn't Tejada so if he can be used to better the rotation I'm all for it.

 

This lineup as it stands really really needs Todd Walker in it.

[Kingmanarama]

5m isn't big money for the left side of a platoon.

 

If you perhaps name me a few left side of the platoon players that are earning more than $5m per in a multi-year deal, that'd be cool. Thanks in advance.

 

Trot Nixon at $19.5/3Y. Matt Lawton at $27/4Y, though I think that one just ended. Ryan Klesko signed a $16.5/2Y extension.

 

Obviously, I'm not saying Jones compares favorably with any of those guys, nor am I saying that those are good contracts. But these things do happen.

[CubfaninCA]

A #3 pitcher would make a bigger difference than Walker. I don't mind Walker in the lineup, but he's not a 5 tool player. He's not even close. As for Neifi, he's starting regardless of whether Walker's here or not. Walker's in the way of Cedeno, if anybody.

[nick23]

5m isn't big money for the left side of a platoon.

 

If you perhaps name me a few left side of the platoon players that are earning more than $5m per in a multi-year deal, that'd be cool. Thanks in advance.

 

Trot Nixon at $19.5/3Y. Matt Lawton at $27/4Y, though I think that one just ended. Ryan Klesko signed a $16.5/2Y extension.

 

Obviously, I'm not saying Jones compares favorably with any of those guys, nor am I saying that those are good contracts. But these things do happen.

I don't think Lawton or Klesko are platoon players. And when Nixon signed his contract I'm pretty sure he wasn't a platoon player.

Edited December 21, 2005 by nick23

[nick23]

A #3 pitcher would make a bigger difference than Walker. I don't mind Walker in the lineup, but he's not a 5 tool player. He's not even close. As for Neifi, he's starting regardless of whether Walker's here or not. Walker's in the way of Cedeno, if anybody.

No way does Neifi start over Walker. It's not happening. And what does 5 tool player have to do with anything? Corey Patterson is a 5 tool player, do you think he should play 2nd?

[goonys evil twin]

A #3 pitcher would make a bigger difference than Walker. I don't mind Walker in the lineup, but he's not a 5 tool player. He's not even close. As for Neifi, he's starting regardless of whether Walker's here or not. Walker's in the way of Cedeno, if anybody.

 

What does a 5 tool player have to do with a 3 starter. 5 tool players are much more rare than #3 starters.

 

And what are examples of #3 starters the Cubs could get for Walker? Are you talking somebody like Kris Benson? A highly compensated pitcher with a dubious injury history and highly unimpressive results. Are we talking Trachsel? I think you got to be more specific than just the generic #3 starter, which can mean a lot of things. Walker gone means Neifi everyday, Neifi everyday in this already weakened lineup means the pitching would have to be absolutely outstanding if the Cubs want to win a lot. #3 starters are, by definition, not outstanding. And a 3/27m #3 starter (the recent going rate) doesn't come close to equaling the value of a 1/2.5m Walker at 2B, especially in this offense.

[Kingmanarama]

I don't think Lawton or Klesko are platoon players. And when Nixon signed his contract I'm pretty sure he wasn't a platoon player.

 

No, I don't think Lawton or Klesko were signed as platoon players, but they've both played their way into platoon situations at various points. Both of them sat against some LHPs in 2005. And Nixon has been platooned with Payton, Kapler, et al for a couple years.

 

I'm not saying that any of those guys have reasonable contracts, and, again, I'm not saying that payin $5M+ for a platoon player is a wise way to allocate resources. Just offering names. I think it's reasonable to hope that Jones ends up in a platoon, so that he can inflict less damage. There are guys with large, multi-year deals who are utilized this way.

 

Personally, I'm horrified by the Jones signing. Carry on.

[abuck1220]

A #3 pitcher would make a bigger difference than Walker. I don't mind Walker in the lineup, but he's not a 5 tool player. He's not even close. As for Neifi, he's starting regardless of whether Walker's here or not. Walker's in the way of Cedeno, if anybody.

 

ok, who's that #3 starter going to be?