12/25 - Chicago Bears @ Green Bay Packers

[Magnetic Curses]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

He's a junior...do we know he's going to be in the draft?

 

i assume that if he's projected as a late first-rounder, he'll want to cash in.

[goonys evil twin]

but jones has been an elite back this year. he's run largely behind a line going up against 8 man fronts. the trend with jones has been to improve every single year, there's no telling if next year will be even better for him. i'm not sure where you see decline, most backs lose about 2 games per year anyway due to bumps and bruises. he's in his prime, that's gotten better every single year in the league, why start predicting a dropoff next year?

 

where isn't the controversy? jones will likely start next year as the #1 back, push benson's development back another year, meanwhile, the best back we have might be peterson, anyway.

 

well bocf seems to think we can't take the cap hit anyway, so why bother even pursuing this conversation?

 

There's no way they can take the cap hit, they just gave him $18m didn't they? Jones was taken in the 2000 draft, after Lewis and before Dayne and Alexander. Guys taken the year before are Edgerin and Williams. Thomas hasn't come close to the success of the best of this bunch. He has 28 career TD's, 2 more than SA has this year alone. He's 9th on the list for RB yards, even further down on YPC, much lower on longest run and tied with others for 9th on TD. He's not elite this year. He's never been elite in the NFL, and if you aren't an elite RB by 27, you probably won't ever be an elite RB. You might want to point to Tiki as an example of what Jones could become. He broke out at 27. But he was already a 4.5-5.0 YPC guy before that season, and Jones is still only a 4.0 guy now.

 

I know you think I have an unfair bias against older players, but the longevity factor with backs is just a fact of life in the NFL. Nobody is looking to lock up Alexander longterm this year because they know it'll bite them in the ass in a couple years. Look at Priest Holmes. He started his career being used as sparingly as Jones (saving him for later) but after he turned 29 he slowed considerably and couldn't hold up. I'm betting Jones has a 2006 similar to his 2005, but unless he has a back taking on a good chunk of the load he'll be much less of an impact runner by 2007. RB is a young man's game. Larry Johnson can thank Vermeil's limited use of him early to time up well with his impending free agency and next big contract.

 

There are very few Curtis Martins in the league. The Bears should not give away Benson and put all their eggs in the Jones basket. They especially shouldn't do it if they are getting lesser value than a #4 pick should normally get you. Aside from the salary cap issue, if they want to trade Benson in a move for Bush, fine. If they want to trade Benson in a move for some other superstar elsewhere, fine. But these TEs are being talked about as mid first round talents, not franchise guys. You don't give away last year's #4 for this year's #9.

Edited December 28, 2005 by goony's evil twin

[Banedon]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

He's a junior...do we know he's going to be in the draft?

 

i assume that if he's projected as a late first-rounder, he'll want to cash in.

 

Fair enough....just didn't know if you'd heard something I hadn't.

[rawaction]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

that would be a solid pick.

[YearofDaCubs]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

[bukie]

Maybe I'm a little too obsessed with this Harmon forecast on Sportsline.com, but it really irritates me:

 

*Minnesota 21 Chicago 20 -- The Bears appear to be in good shape, but the Vikings are fighting for their playoff lives, which could give them more motivation in this game.

 

So not only does he pick against the Bears for like the 15th time this season, but he has no idea that Minnesota was eliminated from the Playoffs last week????

 

Is there anywhere you can see how he picked for the whole year? I know he hasn't picked the Bears much, I just wonder exactly how his picks went this year.

[Magnetic Curses]

but jones has been an elite back this year. he's run largely behind a line going up against 8 man fronts. the trend with jones has been to improve every single year, there's no telling if next year will be even better for him. i'm not sure where you see decline, most backs lose about 2 games per year anyway due to bumps and bruises. he's in his prime, that's gotten better every single year in the league, why start predicting a dropoff next year?

 

where isn't the controversy? jones will likely start next year as the #1 back, push benson's development back another year, meanwhile, the best back we have might be peterson, anyway.

 

well bocf seems to think we can't take the cap hit anyway, so why bother even pursuing this conversation?

 

There's no way they can take the cap hit, they just gave him $18m didn't they? Jones was taken in the 2000 draft, after Lewis and before Dayne and Alexander. Guys taken the year before are Edgerin and Williams. Thomas hasn't come close to the success of the best of this bunch. He has 28 career TD's, 2 more than SA has this year alone. I know you think I have an unfair bias against older players, but the longevity factor with backs is just a fact of life in the NFL. Nobody is looking to lock up Alexander longterm this year because they know it'll bite them in the ass in a couple years. Look at Priest Holmes. He started his career being used as sparingly as Jones (saving him for later) but after he turned 29 he slowed considerably and couldn't hold up. I'm betting Jones has a 2006 similar to his 2005, but unless he has a back taking on a good chunk of the load he'll be much less of an impact runner by 2007. RB is a young man's game. Larry Johnson can thank Vermeil's limited use of him early to time up well with his impending free agency and next big contract.

 

There are very few Curtis Martins in the league. The Bears should not give away Benson and put all their eggs in the Jones basket. They especially shouldn't do it if they are getting lesser value than a #4 pick should normally get you.

 

good points, i'll admit when i'm wrong.

[Banedon]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

Just looking through a couple of mock drafts, it looks like Vernon and Lewis are the two names that have come up, but it seems like everyone's in agreement that TE is the way to go for the Bears in the first round.

[Magnetic Curses]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

Just looking through a couple of mock drafts, it looks like Vernon and Lewis are the two names that have come up, but it seems like everyone's in agreement that TE is the way to go for the Bears in the first round.

 

they say that vernon is a better all-around TE, and more suitable to the bears run-first offense.

[YearofDaCubs]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

Just looking through a couple of mock drafts, it looks like Vernon and Lewis are the two names that have come up, but it seems like everyone's in agreement that TE is the way to go for the Bears in the first round.

Most definitely.

[goonys evil twin]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like what Jones has done. I thought it was a very shrewd move signing him for relatively cheap (for a starting RB). He's not going to be a salary cap killer. He's also not good enough to hold out for a better contract. He's been a good RB for the Bears. And hopefully as soon as he's done Benson will be there to pick up the slack. I would have preferred Angelo draft a WR in the first this year, somebody who could help immediately at a major need position, as opposed to RB, which wasn't a big need. But Benson is here now, and they have to plan on him being the guy within the next year or 2.

[YearofDaCubs]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like what Jones has done. I thought it was a very shrewd move signing him for relatively cheap (for a starting RB). He's not going to be a salary cap killer. He's also not good enough to hold out for a better contract. He's been a good RB for the Bears. And hopefully as soon as he's done Benson will be there to pick up the slack. I would have preferred Angelo draft a WR in the first this year, somebody who could help immediately at a major need position, as opposed to RB, which wasn't a big need. But Benson is here now, and they have to plan on him being the guy within the next year or 2.

Agreed. I just hope he becomes a top RB.

[Banedon]

Maybe I'm a little too obsessed with this Harmon forecast on Sportsline.com, but it really irritates me:

 

*Minnesota 21 Chicago 20 -- The Bears appear to be in good shape, but the Vikings are fighting for their playoff lives, which could give them more motivation in this game.

 

So not only does he pick against the Bears for like the 15th time this season, but he has no idea that Minnesota was eliminated from the Playoffs last week????

 

Is there anywhere you can see how he picked for the whole year? I know he hasn't picked the Bears much, I just wonder exactly how his picks went this year.

 

Not that I see...his overall record for picks this year is 135-103-4 according to this page, but his record on picking Bears games is far worse.

[rawaction]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like what Jones has done. I thought it was a very shrewd move signing him for relatively cheap (for a starting RB). He's not going to be a salary cap killer. He's also not good enough to hold out for a better contract. He's been a good RB for the Bears. And hopefully as soon as he's done Benson will be there to pick up the slack. I would have preferred Angelo draft a WR in the first this year, somebody who could help immediately at a major need position, as opposed to RB, which wasn't a big need. But Benson is here now, and they have to plan on him being the guy within the next year or 2.

 

It's almost a must to have 2 capable RBs in the NFL. There's no reason to get rid of Benson or Jones without an equally talented back in there. Peterson is a decent back, but I don't want him as a #2. Plus, isn't he a FA after this year? There's enough carries and injuries to go around, no need to get rid of RBs at this stage.

[Magnetic Curses]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like what Jones has done. I thought it was a very shrewd move signing him for relatively cheap (for a starting RB). He's not going to be a salary cap killer. He's also not good enough to hold out for a better contract. He's been a good RB for the Bears. And hopefully as soon as he's done Benson will be there to pick up the slack. I would have preferred Angelo draft a WR in the first this year, somebody who could help immediately at a major need position, as opposed to RB, which wasn't a big need. But Benson is here now, and they have to plan on him being the guy within the next year or 2.

 

heath miller would have been a great pick, if we could have traded down.

[YearofDaCubs]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like what Jones has done. I thought it was a very shrewd move signing him for relatively cheap (for a starting RB). He's not going to be a salary cap killer. He's also not good enough to hold out for a better contract. He's been a good RB for the Bears. And hopefully as soon as he's done Benson will be there to pick up the slack. I would have preferred Angelo draft a WR in the first this year, somebody who could help immediately at a major need position, as opposed to RB, which wasn't a big need. But Benson is here now, and they have to plan on him being the guy within the next year or 2.

 

It's almost a must to have 2 capable RBs in the NFL. There's no reason to get rid of Benson or Jones without an equally talented back in there. Peterson is a decent back, but I don't want him as a #2. Plus, isn't he a FA after this year? There's enough carries and injuries to go around, no need to get rid of RBs at this stage.

I'm pretty sure we have AP for at least one more year. he signed an extension last year if I remember correctly.

[Magnetic Curses]

Benson isn't going anywhere and trading him isn't an option. I will say this though Thomas Jones really didn't have a fair shake in Arizona where he first started out. He went to TB and when he started towards the end of the year was definitely their best RB. Since coming here he has been pretty good when healthy. He does have an injury history and that makes drafting Benson a good move by Angelo. I don't know if Benson will be as good as Cadillac but I'm sure he can play in this league.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like what Jones has done. I thought it was a very shrewd move signing him for relatively cheap (for a starting RB). He's not going to be a salary cap killer. He's also not good enough to hold out for a better contract. He's been a good RB for the Bears. And hopefully as soon as he's done Benson will be there to pick up the slack. I would have preferred Angelo draft a WR in the first this year, somebody who could help immediately at a major need position, as opposed to RB, which wasn't a big need. But Benson is here now, and they have to plan on him being the guy within the next year or 2.

 

It's almost a must to have 2 capable RBs in the NFL. There's no reason to get rid of Benson or Jones without an equally talented back in there. Peterson is a decent back, but I don't want him as a #2. Plus, isn't he a FA after this year? There's enough carries and injuries to go around, no need to get rid of RBs at this stage.

 

i don't think there's any reason to believe that peterson isn't a quality #2 back. what more does he have to do?

[Banedon]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

Just looking through a couple of mock drafts, it looks like Vernon and Lewis are the two names that have come up, but it seems like everyone's in agreement that TE is the way to go for the Bears in the first round.

 

they say that vernon is a better all-around TE, and more suitable to the bears run-first offense.

 

I guess it depends on what you read because this page thinks he belongs in a passing offense.

 

Davis is primarily a receiving tight end and could face some troubles trying to block linebackers at the next level. He is only 6’3”, but can out leap many receivers. Needs to be placed in a passing offense to fully utilize his talents.

 

Granted I'm not too sure about the quality of the source in this case.

[Magnetic Curses]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

Just looking through a couple of mock drafts, it looks like Vernon and Lewis are the two names that have come up, but it seems like everyone's in agreement that TE is the way to go for the Bears in the first round.

 

they say that vernon is a better all-around TE, and more suitable to the bears run-first offense.

 

I guess it depends on what you read because this page thinks he belongs in a passing offense.

 

Davis is primarily a receiving tight end and could face some troubles trying to block linebackers at the next level. He is only 6’3”, but can out leap many receivers. Needs to be placed in a passing offense to fully utilize his talents.

 

Granted I'm not too sure about the quality of the source in this case.

 

this guy says different:

 

25. Chicago Bears – Vernon Davis*, TE Maryland

Whether it’s Grossman or Orton in 2006, the Bears have got to get their starting QB some more weapons. And while Marcedes Lewis is the best receiving tight end in the draft, Davis has the better all-around skills and is a better fit for the Bears running offense.

 

http://football.about.com/cs/nfldraft/a/bl_mockdraft_4.htm

[Banedon]

this guy says different:

 

25. Chicago Bears – Vernon Davis*, TE Maryland

Whether it’s Grossman or Orton in 2006, the Bears have got to get their starting QB some more weapons. And while Marcedes Lewis is the best receiving tight end in the draft, Davis has the better all-around skills and is a better fit for the Bears running offense.

 

http://football.about.com/cs/nfldraft/a/bl_mockdraft_4.htm

 

I'll take either of em.

[goonys evil twin]

i don't think there's any reason to believe that peterson isn't a quality #2 back. what more does he have to do?

 

I think he would be an average #2 at best. He's had success here and there, mainly between week 9 and week 12. He's had just 68 attempts this year. I don't see him as a starter, and I'd rather have my backup RB be capable of taking over when the starter needs to be replaced.

[Magnetic Curses]

i don't think there's any reason to believe that peterson isn't a quality #2 back. what more does he have to do?

 

I think he would be an average #2 at best. He's had success here and there, mainly between week 9 and week 12. He's had just 68 attempts this year. I don't see him as a starter, and I'd rather have my backup RB be capable of taking over when the starter needs to be replaced.

 

"average at best" is a bold statement concerning a guy who has 356 yards on those 68 carries, good for a 5.2 average.

 

i wish all our rb's were that average.

[brinoch]

some drafts have us taking vernon davis.

 

He's a junior...do we know he's going to be in the draft?

 

i assume that if he's projected as a late first-rounder, he'll want to cash in.

 

He might be a little undersized, but I haven't really seen him play at all, and I hesitate to make a judgement on that basis.

[Keener98]

I agree that TE should be what the Bears are looking for in the 1st round. But what I love about the Bears draft is the quality that they seem to be able to find in the later parts of the draft. Are there any names out there anyone can think of for the later parts of the draft. Also, is there any free agent TE's available?

[rawaction]

i don't think there's any reason to believe that peterson isn't a quality #2 back. what more does he have to do?

 

I think he would be an average #2 at best. He's had success here and there, mainly between week 9 and week 12. He's had just 68 attempts this year. I don't see him as a starter, and I'd rather have my backup RB be capable of taking over when the starter needs to be replaced.

 

What he said.