White Sox get Vazquez according to ESPN

[YearofDaCubs]

 

It remains to be seen if Hendry can find a way to address the lack of OBP guys in our everyday lineup.

 

Unfortunately, I think the answer to this query has been borne out time and again.

Agreed. With Hendry it's a broken record. It's always something with him. If we sign JJones would you guys be even comfortable going into the season? I sure as heck wont. We upgraded the bullpen, we acquired Pierre. Even if we overpaid for the BP at least it's an upgrade but our offense is going to be sorry again and I just dont see it as good enough to go to the playoffs. We need an impact bat in RF, or Hendry has to do something to acquire more OBP. What in the world is he thinking?

[Outshined_One]

Anyone else notice that Kenny Williams tends to target players who have had off years or are in the midst of slumps?

[Andy]

Anyone else notice that Kenny Williams tends to target players who have had off years or are in the midst of slumps?

And then they immediately end their slumps or have career years on the South Side?

 

I do see your point that he likes guys with low value. Of course with that payroll, you sort of have to do that.

[nolanwood]

I had a feeling Vazquez was going to the Southside when this picture appeared about a week ago....

 

 

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dsfp%26p%3Dguillen%2Bvazquez&w=410&h=277&imgurl=us.news2.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Fap%2F20051203%2Fcapt.xbl10312032233.puerto_rico_celebrity_golf_xbl103.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fnews%3Ftmpl%3Dstory%26u%3D%2F051203%2F483%2Fxbl10312032233&size=20.6kB&name=capt.xbl10312032233.puerto_rico_celebrity_golf_xbl103.jpg&p=guillen+vazquez&type=jpeg&no=1&tt=5&ei=UTF-8&src=p

[nick23]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

[Cubzfan64]

I really have to give the White Sox credit for going out there and making some moves after their success of 2005. The Sox are in an excellent position because to win a WS means you likely had a few players who had "career" years or at the least played well above expectations.

 

If an organization is good at evaluating talent, they can then turn around and move a couple of those players while their stock is high and further improve their ballclub either for the present or future. Once that's done, it's possible to continue "selling high" and "buying low" - the main key to a successful run for a number of years.

 

I'm sure it's not true, but barring a few instances, the Cubs organization tends to do alot more "selling low" and "buying high" which in turn gives you a team that might contend one year, and then end up in last place the next. :-(

[Andy]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

I won't care either way. We'll have won the damn World Series.

[Cubzfan64]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

 

Your question basically answers itself - you can't put that many "ifs" and assumptions into a question and not have the answer be luck.

 

It's putting all your eggs in one basket and you have a team which could very easily end up in last place just as easily end up in first. I want a team that both on paper and on the field is above average and gets themselves into a situation where they can contend every year.

[YearofDaCubs]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

I will give him all the credit in the world because obviously he saw something in the players he drafted/signed/traded for to make them a contender. Not everything in baseball is all about luck. I'm sure some of it is but there is skill involved.

[nick23]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

 

Your question basically answers itself - you can't put that many "ifs" and assumptions into a question and not have the answer be luck.

 

It's putting all your eggs in one basket and you have a team which could very easily end up in last place just as easily end up in first. I want a team that both on paper and on the field is above average and gets themselves into a situation where they can contend every year.

 

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

[Blueheart05]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

 

Your question basically answers itself - you can't put that many "ifs" and assumptions into a question and not have the answer be luck.

 

It's putting all your eggs in one basket and you have a team which could very easily end up in last place just as easily end up in first. I want a team that both on paper and on the field is above average and gets themselves into a situation where they can contend every year.

 

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

No flaming please

 

I don't care if it's luck or skill. I wont care about the number of seemingly stupid moves Hendry makes this offseason if the Cubs win the WS. It wouldn't matter he will look like a genius (and so does Williams). The Sox might be garbage in a few years because of some of his risky moves but it wont hurt nearly as much (from a fans perspective) because they have already won and are primed to repeat.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I have a question. Say we end up signing Jaque Jones for RF. The starting pitching stays healthy, Jerome Williams has a career year, the pitching starts getting hot towards the end of the year and we just ride the rotation into the playoffs and on to a WS title. Would you guys say Hendry put together a great team? Or would you say we got really lucky and everything just kind of fell into place? I would say we just got lucky. Which is exactly what I say about Kenny Williams. He got great pitching last year and he had an average offense. Our offense this year will probably be better than their's last year.

 

Your question basically answers itself - you can't put that many "ifs" and assumptions into a question and not have the answer be luck.

 

It's putting all your eggs in one basket and you have a team which could very easily end up in last place just as easily end up in first. I want a team that both on paper and on the field is above average and gets themselves into a situation where they can contend every year.

 

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

No flaming please

 

I don't care if it's luck or skill. I wont care about the number of seemingly stupid moves Hendry makes this offseason if the Cubs win the WS. It wouldn't matter he will look like a genius (and so does Williams). The Sox might be garbage in a few years because of some of his risky moves but it wont hurt nearly as much (from a fans perspective) because they have already won and are primed to repeat.

 

 

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[Hector Villanuevas Pants]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

Do you understand the absurdity of this statement. Based on the history of baseball in Chicago, there is nothing simple about winning a WS.

[Banedon]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

[nick23]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

Do you understand the absurdity of this statement. Based on the history of baseball in Chicago, there is nothing simple about winning a WS.

 

Good point, other than the fact that it has nothing to do with what I wrote.

I'm not saying it's simple to win a WS. I'm saying that I'm not going to concede that KW is a good gm who did a great job assembling a team last year solely based on the fact that they won it all. Just like if Hendry stands pat this year and we happen to win it all, I'm not going to say that Hendry is a genuis because he saw what no one else saw regarding this team. Would I be happy? Without a doubt. But it wouldn't change the fact that Hendry has a done a poor job this and last offseason. It would mean that more than likely we had healthy and outstanding pitching.

[nick23]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

[Banedon]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

 

Why not? Did you think heading into the season that the White Sox were a championship caliber team? KW and Ozzie Guillen led this team out of a horrible end of season slump into a dominant postseason run. He sure did something right.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

 

I'll turn it around. Who did a better job last year?

[nick23]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

 

Why not? Did you think heading into the season that the White Sox were a championship caliber team? KW and Ozzie Guillen led this team out of a horrible end of season slump into a dominant postseason run. He sure did something right.

 

No I didn't think heading into last season they were a championship caliber team. Which is why I'm making this arguement.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Wow, Chris Young for Javier Vasquez?

 

The DBacks have a glut of young minor league OFs, especially with Young ready by the end of this year too. Can we trade for Quentin or Tracy yet?

[Blueheart05]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

 

Yes, he did but it all began in 2004 when he traded Miguel Olivo for Freddy Garcia. He also flipped Loiaza for Contreras. Both moves were central to them winning in 2005. Of course, he got a career year out of Garland, which was a bonus, but you can't argue that he lucked up on a WS. He made those moves because he thought they would better the team. He just didn't know how much better they would be. In the end, it was their dominant pitching and timely offense that netted a championship.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm saying that I'm not going to concede that KW is a good gm who did a great job assembling a team last year solely based on the fact that they won it all.

 

You don't have to say he did a great job, and you don't have to base it solely on the fact that they won it all last year.

 

But look at the big picture:

5 straight seasons of 81 wins or more, with nothing but a middle of the road payroll. Included in there was one great season and that WS. Plus the fact that he is still aggressively improving his team this year, and still has enough prospects to both fill into the roster this coming season and either develop for future years or trade for future players.

 

If you can look at those facts and not say he's done a good job as GM, you're either just a strict anti-White Sox fan, anti-Ken Williams, or just plain old not fair. Furthermore, given those facts, you'd have to say he's done a better job than Hendry, to date.

 

You can knock any individual deal all you want. A lot of people looked at Pods for Lee as stupid. Pods isn't as good as Lee. Fine. But for the cost of Lee, he got Pods, Dye and Iguchi, plus money left over. Dye was more productive than Lee on his own, Iguchi was a fantastic little middle infield addition, and while Pods was nothing special last year, he was better than the previous season, and as productive as Juan Pierre has been on average in his career.

 

If you can't look past your own personal opinion of any one deal or group of deals, and look at the big picture of results at the end of the season, or group of seasons, then you aren't doing a good job of analyzing what matters.

[nick23]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

 

I'll turn it around. Who did a better job last year?

I don't know enough about every other team to answer that. But winning the WS doesn't mean that your GM did the best job that year IMO.

[Jon]

I disagree.

 

I hated the Contreras deal but it paid off.

I hated the Hernandez deal but it paid off.

Took a risk on Jenks.

He took a lot of heat for the Garcia trade and sign.

 

And yes the offense was bad last year so he went out and got Thome.

 

I used to think KW sucked but the guy has gotten the job done.

I'm not going to get into the Thome trade because I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, but relying on things to pay off isn't a strategy I want my GM to hold. He made a lot of moves that I don't think are good. I don't think we can judge GMs simply by results. The only thing they can control are individual moves and in that regard, I don't think KW has done a very good job.

 

This is all so ridiculous. It's not just the ring, what about the 99 win season. Hendry's 2003 team wasn't all that good, if they won the ring, and had the same regression once he started making moves, it would look bad. But the point is KW's teams haven't regressed, and he's done it with a much lesser payroll. The rules are different when you aren't a top 5 payroll. With all this absurd Kenny bashing, no GM should ever get any credit. Hendry's team has gotten worse over the past few years. Williams got better. Williams is doing a lot to make his team even better this offseason. Hendry has barely done anything. And Williams has done it all with much less of a payroll.

He should get credit based on his moves. And I don't see how the White Sox were that much better than the '03 Cubs. I wouldn't think the '05 AL Central matches up all that well with the '03 NL Central, but maybe that's just my perception. Regardless, why are you comparing them to the Cubs? KW's moves shouldn't be compared to Hendry's. They should be judged on their own.

 

In order for the White Sox to not regress, they need to repeat their amazing pitching production. I'll be surprised if that happens.

 

If Jim Hendry gets "credit" for back to back over .500 seasons, why doesn't Williams get credit for 5 straight .500 or better seasons? Hendry gets ragged on because the Cubs have regressed, were sub .500, haven't done much to change things this offseason, and do it with a $100m payroll. William's teams hasn't regressed, have been .500 or better every year, had a great 99 win season, won the World Series, he's still doing a lot to make the 2006 team even better, and he's done it with much less payroll.

I'm certainly not giving credit for back-to-back .500 seasons.

Where is the basis for your argument again?

 

If KW didn't do much to make his team better, then I better not see any of you jumping on the Hendry bandwagon if the Cubs pull out a 99 win WS championship season in 2006.

 

I dislike Hendry because I don't share his beliefs in how to put together a team, but mostly because I don't like his results. I can admit that what I believe to be the best way to build a team is not the only way, or even truly the best way. Maybe I'm wrong. If you can build a winner doing things differently than I would, good for you, you deserve credit. Kenny has made individual trades that I may have not made. But he has put together a great team, that cannot be denied. So I can give him credit for a job well done. I'm not saying he's the best GM in the game, or that I want him to be the next GM of the Cubs. But he's done a much better job than Hendry, and he deserves credit for a job well done.

It's obvious we're just arguing past each other since we disagree on how to judge a GM. When I think of a GM's job, the end results are not on the top of my list. A GM has to put his team in the best position to win and make constant major or minor adjustments along the way. The only way he can do that is through individual moves. And for me, that's the way I'm going to look at his performance. Having a sound philosophy and making good decisions each day is all I ask for.

 

If this Cubs team that Hendry has currently put together wins 100 games and a World Series, it's not going to affect my perception of Hendry all that much. And I doubt it's going to affect my desire to have him replaced.

[RynoRules]

Yeah, I agree with you. I was just responding to the posts about KW doing a great job last year simply based on the fact that they won the WS.

 

What would you prefer the measuring stick for performance be? Isn't the goal of every GM to get to the World Series? 30 GM's failed at that last year.

 

So Kenny Williams did a better job than every other GM last year? I just don't believe that.

 

I'll turn it around. Who did a better job last year?

I don't know enough about every other team to answer that. But winning the WS doesn't mean that your GM did the best job that year IMO.

 

Empty argument. It has legs, but without support, its empty.