Pierre addition is huge

[SeldomSeen]

Lets face it, the Cubs probably wouldn't have much roster space for those 3 arms anyway when (and IF) they become major league ready. Hendry was dealing from surplus, but i do concede that he could've gotten a little bit more than Juan Pierre for what he gave up. The only thing is those other options probably werent available at this particular moment.

 

Not to pick on you personally, but I've seen this sentiment expressed a few times here. How can you say this as if it is fact? I agree that it was a steep price, but how do you know, really, what those guys are worth to other teams? Why would Hendry take his time working on deals with multiple teams, and then not get the most value possible? I know he's had a man crush on Pierre for a while, but I really don't think he overpaid at this point- assuming we didn't trade another Dontrelle here.

[frostwyrm]

Why is it okay that Pierre has no power? Its as if people see it as a plus, because it makes him a "true" leadoff hitter.

 

In 719 plate appearances Pierre hit 2 HR and 19 doubles, so people say he's a perfect fit at leadoff, but if he had hit 15 HR and 35 doubles people would wonder what to do with him because his power would be deemed inadequate for an RBI slot but too great to waste at leadoff. It's as if people don't want the best possible player, they want a "prototype".

[Soul]

Pierre's a slight upgrade over what we had at leadoff last year.

 

Slight upgrade.

 

I'm glad we improved a little but let's not get carried away. This is no "huge" addition to the ballclub. I didn't see us as a contender 2 weeks ago, and I still don't. The team just isn't all that great (to this point, anyway).

[Fred Hornkohl]

Pierre's a slight upgrade over what we had at leadoff last year.

 

Slight upgrade.

 

I'm glad we improved a little but let's not get carried away. This is no "huge" addition to the ballclub. I didn't see us as a contender 2 weeks ago, and I still don't. The team just isn't all that great (to this point, anyway).

 

This is a whole lot more than a slight upgrade......

 

04/04 - 10/02       AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
CUBS '05 leadoff   690   83  168   33    2   13  244   55   44   96  0.243  0.297  0.354  0.650
Pierre career avg  654  100  199   22    9    2  245   47   43   40  0.305  0.355  0.375  0.730

 

This is enough of an upgrade to take the team's OBP (0.324) from 11th place in the National League up to league average (0.330). If the CUBS are able to pull off a deal for a stud right fielder and get the kind of production out of Cedeno & Murton that we all are hoping for, this will be a very strong offensive unit.

[Soul]

Pierre's a slight upgrade over what we had at leadoff last year.

 

Slight upgrade.

 

I'm glad we improved a little but let's not get carried away. This is no "huge" addition to the ballclub. I didn't see us as a contender 2 weeks ago, and I still don't. The team just isn't all that great (to this point, anyway).

 

This is a whole lot more than a slight upgrade......

 

04/04 - 10/02       AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
CUBS '05 leadoff   690   83  168   33    2   13  244   55   44   96  0.243  0.297  0.354  0.650
Pierre career avg  654  100  199   22    9    2  245   47   43   40  0.305  0.355  0.375  0.730

 

This is enough of an upgrade to take the team's OBP (0.324) from 11th place in the National League up to league average (0.330). If the CUBS are able to pull off a deal for a stud right fielder and get the kind of production out of Cedeno & Murton that we all are hoping for, this will be a very strong offensive unit.

 

Yeah but you're using his career numbers. He wasn't really close to that last year. He was .276/.326/.354. It's not enough of a jump to call it "huge"---at least in my book. I suppose it depends on your definition of "slight" versus "huge."

 

I contend that, if acquiring Albert Pujols is a HUGE improvement, then Pierre is definitely SLIGHT.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Yeah but you're using his career numbers. He wasn't really close to that last year. He was .276/.326/.354. It's not enough of a jump to call it "huge"---at least in my book. I suppose it depends on your definition of "slight" versus "huge."

 

Point taken about Pierre's career numbers vs. his '05 season. I did that purposely because I believe that in '06 we can reasonably expect him to perform closer to his career averages than to his '05 performance. This is an example of regression toward the mean.

 

I contend that, if acquiring Albert Pujols is a HUGE improvement, then Pierre is definitely SLIGHT.

 

Everything is relative, Soul. Pujols replacing DLee is a slight improvement. Pierre replacing Neifi Perez, Corey Patterson et al in the leadoff slot is a huge improvement.

[ConstableRabbit]

If nothing else, he should be fun to watch (Pierre)

 

Welcome to the board!

 

and yes, he can be pretty fun to watch.

[bhogg]

They way I see it, Pie is no guarantee. Pierre is a proven ML lead off hitter. If he has a great year and Pie is not ready, maybe we're able to use Pie to strengthen our team via trade. Then again, maybe Pie is ready and he compliments Pierre --- many experts aren't pegging Pie as a lead off hitter any way.

 

If Pierre doesn't work out, then he's gone. Sure, we gave up some pitchers, but we can't stock pile all of our young players. Chances have to be taken . . . just the nature of the beast.

 

I, for one, am greatly looking forward to watching Pierre play.

[Andy]

I, for one, am greatly looking forward to watching Pierre play.

Me too. I didn't watch enough games in 2001 to fully appreciate EY's speed and CPatt refused to use his, so I'm very interested in seeing how someone who utilizes their speed fares.

[ConstableRabbit]

I hope he fixes his hat though...

 

I used to hate watching him play because of that... so annoying

[Careless]

I hope he fixes his hat though...

 

I used to hate watching him play because of that... so annoying

Seconded

[bhogg]

I think he wears his hat that way because he's french.

[Guest]

If the CUBS are able to pull off a deal for a stud right fielder and get the kind of production out of Cedeno & Murton that we all are hoping for, this will be a very strong offensive unit.

Those are some pretty big ifs there, Fred. Hendry just blew most of his best tradeable commodities to obtain Pierre, especially if you assume he has no intention of trading Hill or Pie. Unless you want to give up one of Prior or Zambrano, I just don't see us having a shot at getting a stud RF at this point. As for Murton and Cedeno, I also hope they live up to our hopes but it's probably not realistic to assume they both will. Few young players immediately reach their potential, and Baker's history is such that they're in danger of losing playing time to the likes of Mabry and Neifi at the first signs of struggle.

 

Pierre's value is pretty much entirely dependent on his BABIP, as he doesn't take many walks and his power is best described as laughable. The good news is his skill set is conducive to a high BABIP. (Good contact ratio, lots of GB, great speed.) The bad news is that BABIP is by it's very nature heavily influenced by luck, making players like Pierre prone to the occasional poor season such as his 2002 or 2005 campaigns. There's really no way to tell which version of Pierre we're getting for 2006, though I admit the 2004 version is probably a bit more likely than the 2005.

 

Finally, the degree of upgrade from the 2005 leadoff hitters to Pierre has a lot less to do with Pierre being good than it does with last year's bunch being absolutely pathetic.

[CubinNY]

If the CUBS are able to pull off a deal for a stud right fielder and get the kind of production out of Cedeno & Murton that we all are hoping for, this will be a very strong offensive unit.

Those are some pretty big ifs there, Fred. Hendry just blew most of his best tradeable commodities to obtain Pierre, especially if you assume he has no intention of trading Hill or Pie. Unless you want to give up one of Prior or Zambrano, I just don't see us having a shot at getting a stud RF at this point. As for Murton and Cedeno, I also hope they live up to our hopes but it's probably not realistic to assume they both will. Few young players immediately reach their potential, and Baker's history is such that they're in danger of losing playing time to the likes of Mabry and Neifi at the first signs of struggle.

 

Pierre's value is pretty much entirely dependent on his BABIP, as he doesn't take many walks and his power is best described as laughable. The good news is his skill set is conducive to a high BABIP. (Good contact ratio, lots of GB, great speed.) The bad news is that BABIP is by it's very nature heavily influenced by luck, making players like Pierre prone to the occasional poor season such as his 2002 or 2005 campaigns. There's really no way to tell which version of Pierre we're getting for 2006, though I admit the 2004 version is probably a bit more likely than the 2005.

 

Finally, the degree of upgrade from the 2005 leadoff hitters to Pierre has a lot less to do with Pierre being good than it does with last year's bunch being absolutely pathetic.

 

Nicely put BK. The Cubs have to hope that one of a few things happen if they don't want to give up the top prospects or a front end pitcher for an impact bat:

 

1. They can piggyback on a multi-team trade.

2. A trade falls through and Hendry is there to pick up the pieces (ala DLee).

3. A salary dump (not likely).

4. "Chemistry" problems (Milton Bradley type).

5. They trade Aramis or Lee (not likely either).

[Soul]

Yeah but you're using his career numbers. He wasn't really close to that last year. He was .276/.326/.354. It's not enough of a jump to call it "huge"---at least in my book. I suppose it depends on your definition of "slight" versus "huge."

 

Point taken about Pierre's career numbers vs. his '05 season. I did that purposely because I believe that in '06 we can reasonably expect him to perform closer to his career averages than to his '05 performance. This is an example of regression toward the mean.

 

I contend that, if acquiring Albert Pujols is a HUGE improvement, then Pierre is definitely SLIGHT.

 

Everything is relative, Soul. Pujols replacing DLee is a slight improvement. Pierre replacing Neifi Perez, Corey Patterson et al in the leadoff slot is a huge improvement.

 

You're right. Let's hope Pierre returns to his career numbers. At any rate, it's a decent addition because the guy has Championship experience and even his '05 numbers are better than what we had.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think he wears his hat that way because he's french.

 

i thought he was hispanic.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I think he wears his hat that way because he's french.

 

i thought he was hispanic.

 

he's not Haitian.

[cjbucks]

I hope he fixes his hat though...

 

I used to hate watching him play because of that... so annoying

 

Maybe its not the hat - maybe his head is crooked :wink:

[A New Era]

Pierre's a slight upgrade over what we had at leadoff last year.

 

Slight upgrade.

 

I'm glad we improved a little but let's not get carried away. This is no "huge" addition to the ballclub. I didn't see us as a contender 2 weeks ago, and I still don't. The team just isn't all that great (to this point, anyway).

 

This is a whole lot more than a slight upgrade......

 

04/04 - 10/02       AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
CUBS '05 leadoff   690   83  168   33    2   13  244   55   44   96  0.243  0.297  0.354  0.650
Pierre career avg  654  100  199   22    9    2  245   47   43   40  0.305  0.355  0.375  0.730

 

This is enough of an upgrade to take the team's OBP (0.324) from 11th place in the National League up to league average (0.330). If the CUBS are able to pull off a deal for a stud right fielder and get the kind of production out of Cedeno & Murton that we all are hoping for, this will be a very strong offensive unit.

 

Yeah but you're using his career numbers. He wasn't really close to that last year. He was .276/.326/.354. It's not enough of a jump to call it "huge"---at least in my book. I suppose it depends on your definition of "slight" versus "huge."

 

I contend that, if acquiring Albert Pujols is a HUGE improvement, then Pierre is definitely SLIGHT.

 

And you're assuming he's going to hit .274/.326 again next year. Last year was a down year for him and based on the amount of times he hit .300/.360 I think it's safe to assume he will post much better #'s than last years.

 

He's got a good head on his shoulders, and good carreer #'s. He can bounce back. Plus he's got a change of scenery. Maybe playing in Chicago infront of those 40K fans will ignite him. He does seem pretty excited to be playing in Chicago. So that will help his motivation to perform.

 

 

EDIT::::::: And I'd like to add, that Pierre is at the age -28- that most argue players enter their prime. There is no reason to think he can't get better. He could possibly post a .370 - .380 OBP. At any rate, I think he'll ATLEAST post a .340 OBP. And as was said, it's relative. He'd be replacing a combined .298 OBP from the lead-off slot. So far Hendry has ATLEAST dusty proofed our #1 batter and made a huge improvement at that slot.

Edited December 10, 2005 by A New Era

[ConstableRabbit]

I think he wears his hat that way because he's french.

 

i thought he was hispanic.

 

he's not Haitian.

 

Whatever he is... Don't tell me you wouldn't buy an official Pierre Cubs beret.

 

Now available at Wrigleyville Sports!

[E.J.]

Pretty good article about Pierre's work ethic:

 

Link

 

Lots of good stuff in that article. Definitely worth reading. Sounds like Pierre works his butt off.

[CubinNY]

Pretty good article about Pierre's work ethic:

 

Link

 

Lots of good stuff in that article. Definitely worth reading. Sounds like Pierre works his butt off.

 

Let the propaganda machine begin.

[Blueheart05]

Pretty good article about Pierre's work ethic:

 

Link

 

Lots of good stuff in that article. Definitely worth reading. Sounds like Pierre works his butt off.

 

Let the propaganda machine begin.

 

 

There's no reason to call it propaganda. We're not talking about a guy who has a checkered past or someone that the fans need to be convinced about because he's replacing beloved Cubs. He's already a member of the team so it's nice to know he works hard. :?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Can Juan work on hitting more XBH's this year? Please?

[Guest]

Pretty good article about Pierre's work ethic:

 

Link

 

Lots of good stuff in that article. Definitely worth reading. Sounds like Pierre works his butt off.

 

Let the propaganda machine begin.

 

 

There's no reason to call it propaganda. We're not talking about a guy who has a checkered past or someone that the fans need to be convinced about because he's replacing beloved Cubs. He's already a member of the team so it's nice to know he works hard. :?

My old HS basketball coach always praised my work ethic and said I displayed the most hustle of anyone on the team. I'm pretty sure it was his nice way of saying that I sucked. 'Cause I did.