Howry signs with Cubs (yes, it's official)

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

Dotel's recent numbers:

2002: 1.85 ERA, 173 BAA, 10.91 K/9

2003: 2.48 ERA 172 BAA, 10.03 K/9

2004: 3.69 ERA, 217 BAA, 12.87 K/9

2005: 3.52 ERA, 185 BAA, 9.39 K/9

 

If Novoa can do that, we don't need to spend money on Howry.

 

There's nothing in Novoa's numbers that indicate he can be any where near Dotel's level. If the Cubs really view him that way, their dumber than anyone has already portrayed them.

 

they're ?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

Dotel's recent numbers:

2002: 1.85 ERA, 173 BAA, 10.91 K/9

2003: 2.48 ERA 172 BAA, 10.03 K/9

2004: 3.69 ERA, 217 BAA, 12.87 K/9

2005: 3.52 ERA, 185 BAA, 9.39 K/9

 

If Novoa can do that, we don't need to spend money on Howry.

 

There's nothing in Novoa's numbers that indicate he can be any where near Dotel's level. If the Cubs really view him that way, their dumber than anyone has already portrayed them.

 

they're ?

 

Fixed. It's late. I should go to bed. I'm not.

[Deeg]

I agree with Tim on this. I'll be horrified if the Cubs burn another $12 million on a middle reliever, but of the two I'd rather have Howry than Eyre.

[MPrior]

I'm not completely crazy about Eyre OR Howry, and I definitely don't see them as being worth contracts of this size, for all the reasons other people have stated.

 

Thoughts on our bullpen pre-Eyre signing:

 

1. The reason it was bad was more because of mismanaging than because of lack of quality. On top of that, it was often overexposed due to the travesty that was our rotation this year.

 

2. Williamson, IMO, is not nearly as big a question mark as many think he is. Yes, he has an injury history, but if he's healthy (which I think he should be; he's not likely to need another TJS next season), he's absolutely sick. You might point to his very high ERA with us this season as an indicator of his question mark-ness. Consider this: first, he was just coming off surgery. That couldn't help. Two, it was only 14.1 innings. In that amount of time, he gave up 9 runs. I'm pretty sure I can find, in almost any pitcher's history, a stretch of 14.1 innings in which he gave up 9 runs. Third, he suffered from a truly terrible .444 BABIP against. Which is the converse of the Howry and Eyre situations; in those 14.1 innings, he was very, very unlucky. Fourth, despite all that, he still managed to K 23 guys in 14.1 innings, for a K/9 of roughly 14.5 (no, this isn't particularly meaningful because of the small sample size, but it's just as meaningful as his ERA). That's pretty sick. With an offseason to rest and rehab his arm, he should come back with a bit better control, and won't walk as many guys (6) or give up as many homers (3).

 

3. Wuertz is better than his numbers suggest. If used properly, he's setup material. We all saw how good he can be when he's rested.

 

So, all in all, I think Hendry is right to want to improve the bullpen, but I think this might be a bit of overkill.

[CubfaninCA]

I don't mind building like Anaheim and there's still money for Giles. The Cubs need insurance for a rotation that has trouble with durability and getting late into games. Pitching usually wins titles not juggernaut offenses.

 

Also, why would B.J. Ryan come to Chicago when Dempster's already the closer? Seems Dempster would have gone elsewhere w/out being ensured of the closing role.

[Laura]

Not sure if this has been posted yet ... from the notoriously unreliable Newark Star-Ledger.

 

The Star-Ledger[/url]"]Yankees owner George Steinbrenner expressed some concern at last week's organization meetings in Tampa, Fla., about the team's inability (so far) to secure its top free- agent targets. The meetings were held just after the Yankees found out that left-handed reliever Scott Eyre was signing with the Cubs. The Yankees wanted Eyre so badly that they had manager Joe Torre place a recruiting call to him, but they didn't even make Eyre's final four list of teams. The Yankees are pessimistic about their chances of signing top relief-pitching targets such as B.J. Ryan, Bob Howry, Kyle Farnsworth and Tom Gordon, and they're moving down the list to lesser names.

 

Howry was said yesterday to be nearing a deal with those same Chicago Cubs -- a three-year contract worth more than the $11 million the Cubs gave to Eyre. And Farnsworth, Ryan and Gordon all are exploring opportunities to be closers for other teams rather than setup relievers for Mariano Rivera in the Bronx. The closer market isn't expected to get moving until Billy Wagner, who visited the Mets yesterday, picks a team.

 

Meanwhile, the Yankees are making calls to the agents for various other relief pitchers, including right-handers Julian Tavarez and Octavio Dotel and left-handers Ricardo Rincon, Mike Myers and Joey Eischen. They also called to see if Jose Mesa would be interested in signing with them, but he told them he wasn't interested in pitching in New York.

 

Also

 

The other player Torre was asked to help recruit, outfielder Brian Giles, was leaning toward a return to the San Diego Padres, according to several baseball officials yesterday. But the Yankees still believed they had a chance to sign him, and he hasn't told them they're out of it.

[CubfaninCA]

Does NY"s interest in Eyre prove that Hendry didnt' "bid against himself??"

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Does NY"s interest in Eyre prove that Hendry didnt' "bid against himself??"

 

Didn't need proof. As recently as two weeks ago, Eyre's agent said they had at least been casually contacted by every team in baseball. There is a premium for effective setup men nowadays, Hendry realizes this, took the bull by the horns, and made sure he got his men (if indeed Howry is signed). For once, I am impressed with Hendry's effort, even if some here are impatient for action at the field positions.

[CubfaninCA]

Does NY"s interest in Eyre prove that Hendry didnt' "bid against himself??"

 

Didn't need proof. As recently as two weeks ago, Eyre's agent said they had at least been casually contacted by every team in baseball. There is a premium for effective setup men nowadays, Hendry realizes this, took the bull by the horns, and made sure he got his men (if indeed Howry is signed). For once, I am impressed with Hendry's effort, even if some here are impatient for action at the field positions.

 

Nice to outbid the Yankees for a change.

[Diffusion]

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

Wuertz

Novoa

Ohman

 

Rusch/Williams

Van Buren

Wood?

 

Hill

Pinto

Guzman

 

Wellemeyer

Aardsma

 

Anyone think we maybe have enough bullpen options now?

 

Nah, didn't think so, let's sign Dotel!

 

I swear, when we trade Hill and Williams, we had better get an absolute fortune for them.

[UMFan83]

I'm still irked at the teams inability to be even slight factors in the player that can help the team the most IMO. (That would be Giles and his .424 OBP last year)

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

Wuertz

Novoa

Ohman

 

Rusch/Williams

Van Buren

Wood?

 

Hill

Pinto

Guzman

 

Wellemeyer

Aardsma

 

Anyone think we maybe have enough bullpen options now?

 

Nah, didn't think so, let's sign Dotel!

 

I swear, when we trade Hill and Williams, we had better get an absolute fortune for them.

 

Um, let's not exaggerate here...Wood, Pinto, Hill, Guzman are not bullpen options. Novoa sucks. Wellemeyer is no longer a prospect. Aardsma has self-imploded. Shoot, Andy Shipman is a better prospect than Aardsma at this point.

 

If Howry is indeed signed, the Cubs have but two extra relievers beyond the seven they'll certainly carry (because of Wood's fragility). One is Novoa, who cannot/will not beat out Mike Wuertz. He's likely trade bait later this winter. The other is Van Buren, who could be trade bait, but more likely will simply return to Iowa for Round 2, on call as the first option should an injury befall one of the ML relievers.

 

After Howry though, yes, I am quite sure Hendry is finished with his bullpen and will likely move on to the next task--nailing down Rafael Furcal.

[fearthecubs]

I told you we weren't bidding against ourselves. It's just the market, guys, put down your sniper rifles.

[CubsWin]

I'm still irked at the teams inability to be even slight factors in the player that can help the team the most IMO. (That would be Giles and his .424 OBP last year)

Who has been a factor in his signing? Has any team been rumored to be in the lead for Giles's services? The Cardinals are supposedly no longer interested. What evidence do you have that suggests Hendry hasn't done everything he can to let Giles's agent know of the team's interest? The latest rumor I've read was in a quote from the Newark Star-Ledger just a couple of posts before yours stating that Giles now seems to be headed back to San Diego. Who knows?

 

All I do know is that Hendry has contacted Bick more than once. Steve Phillips predicts that the Cubs will sign Giles. And Ken Rosenthal predicts the Cubs will try to trade for Bobby Abreu. What does all of this mean? Not much. But it seems to fly in the face of your assertion that the Cubs have an "inability to be even slight factors in the player that can help the team the most".

[don_kessinger_was_good]

I'm still irked at the teams inability to be even slight factors in the player that can help the team the most IMO. (That would be Giles and his .424 OBP last year)

Who has been a factor in his signing? Has any team been rumored to be in the lead for Giles's services? The Cardinals are supposedly no longer interested. What evidence do you have that suggests Hendry hasn't done everything he can to let Giles's agent know of the team's interest? The latest rumor I've read was in a quote from the Newark Star-Ledger just a couple of posts before yours stating that Giles now seems to be headed back to San Diego. Who knows?

 

All I do know is that Hendry has contacted Bick more than once. Steve Phillips predicts that the Cubs will sign Giles. And Ken Rosenthal predicts the Cubs will try to trade for Bobby Abreu. What does all of this mean? Not much. But it seems to fly in the face of your assertion that the Cubs have an "inability to be even slight factors in the player that can help the team the most".

 

There has also been talk of Brad Wilkerson, Cliff Floyd, Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns and Kevin Mench--the first three of whom at least also fit the description of guys that can help the Cubs.

[CubsWin]

Would any of you feel any different about signing guys like Howry/Eyre if it meant we were able to package some of out other arms for contributions to say CF?

 

No, middle relievers for pricey 3 year deals are bad ideas. Especially ones like Eyre who don't have any sustained success.

 

As an aside, does anyone know what happened to Howry's K's this year?

Three years of sustained success isn't enough?

 

Can't anyone look beyond the one stat of ERA in '04 to gain a more complete picture of Eyre?

 

Come on. Look through the thread, I've gone to WHIP, K/BB and in previous threads more than that to make my case about Eyre. Eyre in 2005 was great. He had a WHIP near 1, OPS against under 600, 2.5 K/BB, etc. Aside from that, there's not a whole lot to be impressed about IMO. 2003-2004 he was about 1.4 WHIP, near 700 OPS against, K/BB under 2, etc. Those numbers are similar(K/BB, WHIP) or marginally better(OPS against, K/9) than the rest of his career as a reliever, which is far from stellar. Furthermore, and probably most importantly, we gave him three years. Almost 1100 days. The Cubs will play almost 500 games in that span. When Eyre's contract runs out we'll be voting for another president. For a middle reliever that's never had more than one year of production that would be deserving of 3-4 million a year, that's terrible. If we gave Eyre 1 year 3-4 mil, or 1+ an option, I wouldn't be upset, since you're taking the gamble he can sustain it. I may be upset about how much they're paying for a gamble, but ultimately it's not a terrible move. Giving that same gamble 3 guaranteed years when he's 32 years old and you aren't in dire straits for a LH reliever? Unacceptable IMO.

I apologize for missing your use of stats earlier in this thread. It is true that his WHIP in '03 and his ERA in '04 were not inspiring.

 

That said, it seems we are looking at the same stats and interpreting them differently. I see a pitcher who at the age of 30 was finally diagnosed with ADHD and his first treatments (drugs and life management changes) began during the 2002 season. Since that time, Eyre has steadily improved without regressing at all. And if we look beyond his WHIP in '03 and his ERA in '04, the other numbers show a different story and I believe a more complete picture of Scott Eyre.

 

Each year since receiving treatment, his K/BB ratio has improved. Each year his H/IP ratio has improved. Each year his walks per inning has improved. Each year his WHIP improved. Each year his AVG/OBP/SLG against righties and lefties improved, finally culminating in an excellent campaign last season.

 

Is there reason to believe that he may regress a little? Sure. Is there also reason to believe that his regression will still have him get lefties out to the tune of .200/.241/.390 like he did in '04? Yes. If he regresses against righties to somewhere in between his '04 and '05 performances against them, I think you'll be quite pleased. But there is also reason to think he may not regress. Given that he has improved every season since being diagnosed, the main reason we expect him to regress is that it is difficult to imagine him improving upon last season. And thats a good thing.

 

What evidence do you have that suggests the trend I clearly outlined will suddenly reverse?

[Illini Iceman]

Not sure if this has been posted yet ... from the notoriously unreliable Newark Star-Ledger.

 

The Star-Ledger[/url]"]Yankees owner George Steinbrenner expressed some concern at last week's organization meetings in Tampa, Fla., about the team's inability (so far) to secure its top free- agent targets. The meetings were held just after the Yankees found out that left-handed reliever Scott Eyre was signing with the Cubs. The Yankees wanted Eyre so badly that they had manager Joe Torre place a recruiting call to him, but they didn't even make Eyre's final four list of teams. The Yankees are pessimistic about their chances of signing top relief-pitching targets such as B.J. Ryan, Bob Howry, Kyle Farnsworth and Tom Gordon, and they're moving down the list to lesser names.

 

Howry was said yesterday to be nearing a deal with those same Chicago Cubs -- a three-year contract worth more than the $11 million the Cubs gave to Eyre. And Farnsworth, Ryan and Gordon all are exploring opportunities to be closers for other teams rather than setup relievers for Mariano Rivera in the Bronx. The closer market isn't expected to get moving until Billy Wagner, who visited the Mets yesterday, picks a team.

 

Meanwhile, the Yankees are making calls to the agents for various other relief pitchers, including right-handers Julian Tavarez and Octavio Dotel and left-handers Ricardo Rincon, Mike Myers and Joey Eischen. They also called to see if Jose Mesa would be interested in signing with them, but he told them he wasn't interested in pitching in New York.

 

Also

 

The other player Torre was asked to help recruit, outfielder Brian Giles, was leaning toward a return to the San Diego Padres, according to several baseball officials yesterday. But the Yankees still believed they had a chance to sign him, and he hasn't told them they're out of it.

 

I also saw Torre quoted as saying that the Yankess were out of the running for BJ Ryan since they couldn't offer him the closer job. If Ryan and his agent have made it clear that they will only sign with a team that gives them money and the closer role then it takes some air out of the arguments that Hendry should have combined the Eyre and Howry money and just signed Ryan.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Not sure if this has been posted yet ... from the notoriously unreliable Newark Star-Ledger.

 

The Star-Ledger[/url]"]Yankees owner George Steinbrenner expressed some concern at last week's organization meetings in Tampa, Fla., about the team's inability (so far) to secure its top free- agent targets. The meetings were held just after the Yankees found out that left-handed reliever Scott Eyre was signing with the Cubs. The Yankees wanted Eyre so badly that they had manager Joe Torre place a recruiting call to him, but they didn't even make Eyre's final four list of teams. The Yankees are pessimistic about their chances of signing top relief-pitching targets such as B.J. Ryan, Bob Howry, Kyle Farnsworth and Tom Gordon, and they're moving down the list to lesser names.

 

Howry was said yesterday to be nearing a deal with those same Chicago Cubs -- a three-year contract worth more than the $11 million the Cubs gave to Eyre. And Farnsworth, Ryan and Gordon all are exploring opportunities to be closers for other teams rather than setup relievers for Mariano Rivera in the Bronx. The closer market isn't expected to get moving until Billy Wagner, who visited the Mets yesterday, picks a team.

 

Meanwhile, the Yankees are making calls to the agents for various other relief pitchers, including right-handers Julian Tavarez and Octavio Dotel and left-handers Ricardo Rincon, Mike Myers and Joey Eischen. They also called to see if Jose Mesa would be interested in signing with them, but he told them he wasn't interested in pitching in New York.

 

Also

 

The other player Torre was asked to help recruit, outfielder Brian Giles, was leaning toward a return to the San Diego Padres, according to several baseball officials yesterday. But the Yankees still believed they had a chance to sign him, and he hasn't told them they're out of it.

 

I also saw Torre quoted as saying that the Yankess were out of the running for BJ Ryan since they couldn't offer him the closer job. If Ryan and his agent have made it clear that they will only sign with a team that gives them money and the closer role then it takes some air out of the arguments that Hendry should have combined the Eyre and Howry money and just signed Ryan.

Same argument goes for Wagner. He is an option for a team looking for a closer & the Cubs are not one of those options.

[frostwyrm]

Does NY"s interest in Eyre prove that Hendry didnt' "bid against himself??"

 

Didn't need proof. As recently as two weeks ago, Eyre's agent said they had at least been casually contacted by every team in baseball. There is a premium for effective setup men nowadays, Hendry realizes this, took the bull by the horns, and made sure he got his men (if indeed Howry is signed). For once, I am impressed with Hendry's effort, even if some here are impatient for action at the field positions.

 

From the Tribune:

 

Scott Eyre was so intent on becoming a Cub he accepted their three-year, $11 million offer without trying to find out if he could get more elsewhere.

"We never negotiated with the other teams," agent Tommy Tanzer said

 

I bet Eyre's agent told his client to take the deal before Hendry could put down the crack pipe. Seriously, I really have to suspect Hendry outbid himself.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-051118cubseyre,1,6706818.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

[CubinNY]

Disregard this post Edited November 22, 2005 by CubinNY

[WrigleyinEngland]

If we land Howry as is being reported i for one will applaud Hendry. He's 2 years late but at least he got it done. We were crying out for pen help after '03 and it has taken 2 years but dempster, eyre and howry are nice additions however much we paid. If we land a leadoff guy and a RF i will be satisfied not elated but contended. This is all work that should of been done before but at least it may get done.

[frostwyrm]

I told you we weren't bidding against ourselves. It's just the market, guys, put down your sniper rifles.

 

The market decided the price? How so? Despite all 30 teams being interested in Eyre, the Cubs were the only team to actually put a concrete bid on the table, said bid being very high, and Eyre jumped on it before anyone else even had a chance to negotiate with him. That's practically a dictionary-perfect example of outbidding oneself. The market never even got a chance to have a say in the matter.

[CUBZ99]

Jim Hendry went into the offseason with the goal of improving the bullpen. So far he has landed the top LH setup guy available, and is rumored to be landing one of the top RH setup guys available.

 

That is pretty impressive work IMO. Where is the complaint beside he is spending too much money? And why are we so concerned with how much the Cubs are paying Howry and Erye? Its not like he's blown the whole budget, or for that matter we have no clue what the budget is.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Does NY"s interest in Eyre prove that Hendry didnt' "bid against himself??"

 

Didn't need proof. As recently as two weeks ago, Eyre's agent said they had at least been casually contacted by every team in baseball. There is a premium for effective setup men nowadays, Hendry realizes this, took the bull by the horns, and made sure he got his men (if indeed Howry is signed). For once, I am impressed with Hendry's effort, even if some here are impatient for action at the field positions.

 

Nice to outbid the Yankees for a change.

 

It would have been nice if we outbid them for a difference maker. Where does that article say the Yankees made him an offer? The Cubs were the only team that did. Every team called expressing an interest (including NYY). That's a far cry from giving an offer. Hendry just threw out a number that met Eyre's demands. Typically you low ball them and work up to the player's demands (which are almost always higher than most teams are willing to spend). hendry deserves a pat on the back for that?

 

if that was Giles or Burnett, I wouldn't complain. i could stomach the fact that we overspent on the cream of the crop. since it is Eyre, i think i will lodge a complaint or two. :wink:

[Careless]

Did fearthecubs make a reference to patterson's 2003 that was in support of signing eyre, or is that my ADD acting up?